So you still believe the official story?

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Seeing that everyone even remotely connected to the 9/11 attack was highly educated and came from middle or upper class families (Mohammed Atta has a degree in architectural engineering from Germany, Bin Laden comes from a uber-wealthy family that runs a construction conglomerate, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed has a degree in mechanical engineering, etc), I have no idea who these "cave men" are that you're referring to. Please enlighten me.

Yes, they apparently are living in caves according to the media you worship.
Your forgetting the part that Al CIAda was employed by the government up until the day of 9-11. Please tell me about the history between Osama Bin Laden and the government please.

reply to post by hooper


There are two prices to a missile/bomb/whatever. The net cost is what it actually costs to put onto a target. That's the price of the ordenance, the crew, the infrastructure, the fuel etc. Then there's the price to re-equip. Now, that missile may have been $1M at the time, but they might be $1.9M now. Defense contractor up $2.9 million. Not bad.
That's a single missile (albeit on an invented price). How many were fired? Add it up. Plenty of profit for R&D, no?

Remember the idea of drawing little lines....? Did you try it?
September 10, 2001. Rumsfield announces that he's going to investigate huge sums of missing pentagon money. How's that investigation going? What were the results? We've all heard of the $800 government hammer etc., so there's no chance any money is misappropriated? Black ops? CIA? Wasn't Shrub's Dad the head of the CIA? Sorry, just ANOTHER coincidence.
Perhaps all the records were in that section of the Pentagon that were destroyed. What are the chances...? Shame.

No oil pipeline deals in Afghanistan? You're sure?
Haliburton has no off-shoot subcompanies? Any of them get any action/$$$ out of Afghanistan/Iraq?

How much money did Silverstein make from his insurance policy on the WTC complex? Was it really just coincidence that he'd only recently taken out the policy?

If you want to just pick apart the minutiae of my post, that's fine. However, the intent of my post was for people to research, open their minds, and look for real clues. If you're not prepared to do that, then you really do deserve the official story and all it means. Good luck.

Justify the lies behind the 'issues of national security'.
Would you have performed the 911 commission any differently? Are you really happy that they left no stone unturned, and no question unanswered?
Again, if you think all is well then you deserve the official story.

This is not meant as a personal attack on you. It's more an open post for those who will staunchly support the official story without question rather than seeing where the doubt lies. Despite the unswerving loyalty, would the likes of Cheney, Rumsfield, Bush, Silverstein, Rowe, Wolfowitz give a moments thought about your wellbeing if they had a chance to increase their fortunes over your dead body?

It's nothing new. People have always been expendable when there's money to be made.

Originally posted by thedman

Reason Silverstein had to buy a massive insurance policy on WTC was that the banks putting up the money DEMANDED IT! You didn't think
Silverstein paid for it out of his pocket? He (like 99.9% of Americans) when buying a house financed it. In fact Silverstein wanted only to buy
1BIL in insurance on each building - the banks wanted 7 Bill, settled on
3.5 Bil for each building.

So much for your insurance fraud fantasy....

You don't know what Larry wanted. I know its hard for some, but try to open your tiny mind, its more than insurance fraud.

The Bin Laden Group put a bid in on the Trans Afghanistan pipeline, and were rejected... if they aren't going to join the U.S. in circuventing IRAN with the oilpipe from central asia, then the only alternative was to give the American public and excuse for us to go in there balls out.... 9/11.

You can draw a straight line from the 90's pipeline talks, to Karzai, Bush, Unocal, straight through 9/11 to now. These thing are not independent.

Originally posted by kingoftheworld
Um, not to be rude, but why are you so angry at the fact that this man has an opinion, and a very logical one at that. And furthermore, we would invade Afghanistan because that gave way to invade other middle east countries

If you're referring to Iraq, here, then why did they waste their time framing Afghanistan to begin with? Why not just frame Iraq directly and be done with it?

...which in turn begs the question, if they went through all the trouble of manufacturing a staged attack ultimately in order to invade Iraq (apparently using Afghanistan as a surrogate), why DIDN'T they plant WMD in Iraq, which is the whole reason they used to invade to begin with. Planting a nuke in Iraq would evan have been easier to do than setting up secret controlled demolitions in occupied buildings, actually, and doing so would have made us look like champions of the world.

Your conspiracy claims make no logical sense.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
Silverstein pumped whatever insurance money he got back into the freedom tower.

Hmm correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no freedom tower.

Do you have any documents proving he put all the difference into the Freedom tower like you say?

Seems like billions could get something done.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
As much as those characters disgust me to no end, I sincerely doubt Dylan Avery and AlexJones were responsible for the 9/11 attack, however.

....me too..?

You know how much money was made from "remember 9-11" bull#?

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
If you're referring to Iraq, here, then why did they waste their time framing Afghanistan to begin with? Why not just frame Iraq directly and be done with it?

Money? Power?




My turn.

Show me the plane hitting the pentagon.

Show me wing damage.

It's really encouraging to read so many people have done the research and used their judgment and determined the official story to be unbelievable.

For me the most convincing aspects as to the official story being fantasy is regarding the building collapses and are as follows:
1. Asymmetrically damaged structures do not collapse symmetrically
2. Many many massive 4 ton wall units and girders thrown horizontally out of the buildings at high rates of speed for hundreds of feet
3. Huge amounts of melted iron should not have been there during or after the collapse
4. No plausible explanation for the magnitude or duration of the Centigrade tsunami created by the 'office fires'.
5. No convincing proof that the un-ignited chips in the dust and remnants are anything other than military grade explosives.

Originally posted by The_Zomar

Yes, they apparently are living in caves according to the media you worship.

Ahem. Mohammed Atta is dead, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is in US custody, and no one knows where the heck Bin Laden is. Or at least, according to the media I worship.

Do you have anything tangible to offer to the discussion other than just absurd hyperbole?

Your forgetting the part that Al CIAda was employed by the government up until the day of 9-11. Please tell me about the history between Osama Bin Laden and the government please.

No it wasn't. Osama bin Laden had his own fund raising machine and he didn't need anything from the CIA, even when he was fighting the Soviets.

WAKE UP!

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Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by The_Zomar
Do you really believe people living in a cave pulled off that "insanely complex terrorist attack" that you just admitted it was?

Seeing that everyone even remotely connected to the 9/11 attack was highly educated and came from middle or upper class families (Mohammed Atta has a degree in architectural engineering from Germany, Bin Laden comes from a uber-wealthy family that runs a construction conglomerate, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed has a degree in mechanical engineering, etc), I have no idea who these "cave men" are that you're referring to. Please enlighten me.

Your overlooking his point, if Bin Laden could pull off this "insanely complex terrorist attack", why couldn't elements within our goverment pull if off as well? Not only that, how could Bin Laden pull off this "insanely complex terrorist attack" in spite of the FBI, the CIA, the NSA, the NRO ect.?

Not only is it abusurd that Bin Laden could do what the goverment could not, it is abusurd that he could do it in spite of goverment.

reply to post by GoodOlDave

Osama bin Laden had his own fund raising machine and he didn't need anything from the CIA, even when he was fighting the Soviets.

No CIA aid? Nothing? Really? Wow.



As noted above, you really deserve the official story.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by The_Zomar

Yes, they apparently are living in caves according to the media you worship.

Ahem. Mohammed Atta is dead, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is in US custody, and no one knows where the heck Bin Laden is. Or at least, according to the media I worship.

Do you have anything tangible to offer to the discussion other than just absurd hyperbole?

Your forgetting the part that Al CIAda was employed by the government up until the day of 9-11. Please tell me about the history between Osama Bin Laden and the government please.

No it wasn't. Osama bin Laden had his own fund raising machine and he didn't need anything from the CIA, even when he was fighting the Soviets.

Sir if you go back through the thread you will notice I'm the only one posting documents, images, and videos. You have not offered anything other than opinions.

Lets try to keep this a factual debate not "well this is what I think" please.

I think what really surprises me is that those who adhere to the OS don't find anything at all fishy in all the 'coincidences' of that day.
It's like the stars aligned in some weird way and completely changed the laws of chance, physics, and sanity all at the same time.

I wish I'd been in Las Vegas that day. 5 cents might have made me millions of dollars! Slots all dropping on win lines all day, balls hitting the "0" on roulette wheels, Royal flush every hand, dice falling just right, and nobody would have questioned it! "You must have cheated!" they'd say. "Nah, just a coincidence!" I'd say. Or, "No, I didn't!" What a chance, and I missed it.

Can you, oh dearest OS believer, find another day in history with so many 'coincidences'? Aside from 7/7, that is.

Originally posted by Badgered1
"You must have cheated!" they'd say. "Nah, just a coincidence!" I'd say. Or, "No, I didn't!" What a chance, and I missed it.

Maybe they would blame it on a group of ragtag terrorists.

I don't know, maybe read about Norman Mayer to gain some insight of just what one person can do in this country. Yeah, it was 1982 but things don't really change as quickly as you might think they do.

Now as for OBL, with the massive about of wealth and followers/brothers in arms, it could be pulled off. They did help keep the USSR army at a stalemate for years, did they not?

Or maybe just stop to think of what you could do if you really wanted to do it. VA Tech shootings, Ft Hood Shootings, the Orlando Shootings...list goes on and on of what a determined individual can do.

Think back to pre-9/11...If you studied a base that kept fueled military fighters on the ground. Learned their patterns. Do you think that you could have had a small group steal a fighter or two? Especially if you had a diversion to lure on duty personnel away from your objective?

I don't know, maybe it is just me, but jacking four commercial jets when prepared to do so, does not seem like a complex operation.

Originally posted by Ahabstar
I don't know, maybe it is just me, but jacking four commercial jets when prepared to do so, does not seem like a complex operation.

Maybe it wouldn't be, but planting the bombs in the towers and making norad stand down is certainly quite a feat.

reply to post by Ahabstar

Think back to pre-9/11...If you studied a base that kept fueled military fighters on the ground. Learned their patterns. Do you think that you could have had a small group steal a fighter or two? Especially if you had a diversion to lure on duty personnel away from your objective?

I don't know, maybe it is just me, but jacking four commercial jets when prepared to do so, does not seem like a complex operation.

But could you anticipate that NORAD would be effectively closed down, and the multiple fighter jets in the area be redirected away from your target area? Those are things that would normally really mess up your plans if you wanted to fly your hijacked planes into things.

If you wanted to fly a plane into the Pentagon, would you make acrobatic turns so you could hit the side (and possibly experience ground effect problems)? Or would you drop it in on top? Easier shot, and probably more damage. Unless you were specifically targeting a department or area.... How would you avoid the multiple cameras and air defense systems at the Pentagon?

Without any official responsibility claim from OBL or Al CIAda, there were announcements of who was responsible in the MSM about thirty minutes after the second plane hit. Would you not cover your tracks a bit better? Or even a false passport? Not something that could be found undamaged so easily.

I'm not saying that it would be impossible (at the time) to hijack a number of commercial aircraft, but I am saying that it would be almost impossible that all would go to plan - on a normal day.

You know what really nags at me? Although the WTC was a symbol of "all that is wrong with America", apparently, to OBL and his crew it seems an odd choice of target.

Ask anyone, anywhere in the world, what they think about when you say, "NEW YORK CITY" or even "America". I'd bet that they'd say either the Statue of Liberty or the Empire State Building. Both are icons of America. If you really did get a few planes hijacked and wanted to shake America, you'd hit them IMHO.

That said, if you were an insider/American and trying to make it look like foreign terrorists, you wouldn't even think of attacking such an icon. Especially if you wanted everyone to rally behind Lady Liberty....

Just sayin'.

posted by GoodOlDave

Osama bin Laden had his own fund raising machine and he didn't need anything from the CIA, even when he was fighting the Soviets.

posted by The_Zomar

Lets try to keep this a factual debate not "well this is what I think" please.

Sorry but you are wasting your time arguing with GoodOlDave and expecting some evidence in return.

All Dave has is his faith-based testimony and nothing else.

. . . . . . . . . . . . But but but I had nothing to do with 9-11 and I'm dead.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e432ecd53be1.gif[/atsimg]

Originally posted by CallMeBlu
Your overlooking his point, if Bin Laden could pull off this "insanely complex terrorist attack", why couldn't elements within our goverment pull if off as well? Not only that, how could Bin Laden pull off this "insanely complex terrorist attack" in spite of the FBI, the CIA, the NSA, the NRO ect.?

The "insanely complex terrorist attack" bit was in reference to the convoluted story that the conspiracy theorists are putting out. Apparently, the gov't was able to find mindlessly loyal yet highly trained drones to sneak in and secretly plant controlled demolitions in a heavily occupied skyscraper without anyone noticing, all with the sheer perfection of a supernatural act and without anyone leaving any evidence or whistleblowers, and then managed to organize two passenger jets and crash them into the towers to cover up the controlled demolitions, all to create a false flag operation to invade Iraq...by framing Afghanistan.

Plus, they apparently dug a hole in the middle of nowhere out in Shanksville to fool us into thinking a passenger jet crashed there, and then turned around and launched a cover up to conceal the hole they dug in order to fool us. Oh, yeah, we apparently launched a cruise missile into the Pentagon, planted piles of manufactured aircraft wreckage all over the Pentagon lawn in the blink of an eye, and hired hordes of mindlessly loyal fake witnesses to report they saw a plane, despite the fact the secret conspirators already had two or more real passenger jets earmarked to be crashed into buildings under their complete control. All this, from a gov't that can't even hand out bottles of water to hurricane victims in New Orleans without slipping on banana peels.

Good grief, the gov't agents staging all these secret conspiracies sound like a bunch of stoned fifteen year old kids. I'm completely open to the possibility there was some gov't scheming behind the scenes somewhere...but jeez, THIS it certainly ain't.