V and the Complicity of Believers

I know we have had many V threads the past week, so I appreciate you taking the time to read this one. However, unlike the unnecessary multiple threads about V being propaganda for "Disclosure", this thread will be about what the show tells us about a certain breed of believer. V exposes something very dark about the likes of Stephen Greer, Michael Salla, David Wilcock and their followers.

V, in both the original and reimagined series, is not so much about aliens but something that has happened time-and-again throughout human history. It is about the rise of tyranical government via popular approval. It happened in Rome with Caesar and Augustus, in Germany with Adolf Hitler and we can see it now with Venezuela with Hugo Chavez. There are many other examples. The Visitors are but a means to tell this story in an entertaining fashion. They are a stand-in for the human tyrants, operating in much the same fashion. Times are hard and people are scared, they arrive with solutions and promises to make our lives better. By the time we realize they do not have our best interests at heart, it is too late, we have turned control over our lives to them. As is oft repeated on the show, they will have used our devotion against us.

So how does this relate to the beliefs of Greer and Salla, et al?

According to the above and those like them, there are no such thing as a malevolent alien or at the very least we will soon be under the guidance of positive aliens. We are told once Disclosure happens life on Earth will be near utopic; our new patrons will save us from ourselves, every perceived ill will be remedied and those responsible for these ills shall be punished. Their promise is what dictators have promised throughout history, be they the more human variety or anthrophagic reptiles in disguise. Is there any doubt that Greer, Salla, et al already worship these aliens and are devoted to them?

So convinced of themselves, the Disclosure/Exopolitics fanatics would never be able to recognize any threat posed by their angels-by-way-of-aliens. Because they do not believe these beings are falliable, their devotion so strong, nothing could convince them otherwise. Indeed, their devotion is chilling. Many seem ready to do the hypothetical aliens' bidding without question and attack any scapegoat...

Originally posted by Raider of Truth
If they ask for humans to volunteer in the fight.. i'm signing up. Time for some vengeance me thinks

By now some of you may be wondering if I think we're going to be invaded by aliens or what I, being a skeptic, am even worried about in the first place. Much like V uses aliens to tell a story, I am using aliens to illustrate a point. Greer, Salla, Wilcock and their followers are engaging in the same behaviors that have allowed dictators to rise again and again. Albeit they have replaced human saviors with alien saviors. But so desperate they are to be saved they would gleefully give their devotion to anyone who says the right words, makes the right promises. And if they are willing to give such devotion to an alien, rest assured they would indeed give it to anyone.

I see where you are coming from and fairly understand your point (it could be compared to the rise of Hitler perhaps?), but don't you really think that people like Greer and himself especially (which i really respect and find as one of the best), do know what they are talking about? I mean, if you look at Greer for example and his history of experiences and knowledge, i would assume he does know the stuff (atleast it does look that way, inlike project camelot which are imho rookies compared to him). Even if there are Reptilians/Greys visiting Earth back and forth and some working in random bases, dont you really think that if they really really wanted to enslave us all or kill us all, they would have done that by now? After six decades or so? You could of course say they are just patient and stealth, but i don't know, that sounds more like the NWO rather than extraterrestrials, even hostile ones. Unless they are working with the NWO government, which we will never know for sure. But all in all, whatever the case, and whatever the scenario, you have to stay calm and think before you shoot. If the Reptilians attack us, let's go ahead and fire back. If they don't, why engage a war without a real reason? That would be racism in my eyes or stupid behaviour of fear. But hey, the Dark Greys, why can't they be here really just because of gathering DNA and cows? I guess my post is a mess lol, sorry.

I found it quite humorous in the pilot of V that aliens have arrived and people just go on their business as if NOTHING happened! People still go to coffee shops, go on FBI raids... Its like EH nothing to see here... move along! If an alien invasion WERE to happen in real life, I pray to God it wouldn't just be like Oh the V's are here... lets just accept them with open arms.

Thanx Rex for a break from OMG V DISCLOSURE threads. I see what you are saying and you make a good point about the Greer fan boys. I always thought that the whole movies being made for disclosure purposes is crazy as we have been making sci-fi movies for over 100 years now.
I watched V i thought it was a pretty cool remake, i was laughing at the little speach by the guy in their meeting towards the end. It sounded just like a David Icke speach about the reptilians controlling the world. I was honestly waiting to see if they would have Icke in there doing a cameo.
S&F for style.

[edit on 5-11-2009 by zaiger]

Originally posted by Cybernet
don't you really think that people like Greer and himself especially (which i really respect and find as one of the best), do know what they are talking about?

Of course not. I think if aliens are visiting the planet then no one has any clue what is going on. But my point wasn't about aliens or even Greer, et al's belief in them. Rather it is about their dangerous devotion to any savior.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
But my point wasn't about aliens or even Greer, et al's belief in them. Rather it is about their dangerous devotion to any savior.

Seen plenty of that over the past two years...

reply to post by On the Edge


That's great and all, but I think you missed the point of the thread.

Very well written thread.
I think the UFO and Alien issue is becoming something like a religion for some people.
That wouldn`t be sooo bad if they weren`t fanatics.

First off, "V" once was very popular in the '80s and there was no evident sign of UFO disclosure -or some UFO disclosure manipulation backed by some secret society- in the horizon back then, so NO I really doubt there's anything insidious behind these series, that btw had a rather obvious anti-totalitarian and antifascist subtext.

V, in both the original and reimagined series, is not so much about aliens but something that has happened time-and-again throughout human history. It is about the rise of tyranical government via popular approval. It happened in Rome with Caesar and Augustus, in Germany with Adolf Hitler and we can see it now with Venezuela with Hugo Chavez.

Jumping from Hitler to Chavez again???

Oh... you might have forgot Franco, Pinochet, Tatcher, Berlusconi and G.W. Bush in between. They were all fascist dictators who didn't had any problems with crushing down the masses and launching murderous military operations for the interests of their own power elite. Or maybe they are the ones you consider as the "good cowboys"...?

Fantastic post, DoomsdayRex. I watched the original V series as a child and just watched the new pilot episode. I enjoyed the pilot episode and do see a lot of similarities with the original series, although there are a lot less overt references to fascism. There has already been a huge campaign against the new V series so most of the true believers will already shout the party line that "V is disinformation against the upcoming disclosure". Thanks for such a great thought provoking post

Thanks Rex for giving me an aspect of V to think about that I haven't thought about before, and I really hadn't related that to Greer before (maybe I had with Hitler) but now that you point out the parallels I can see what you mean.

Yes it's absolutely frightening how some people are willing to follow some "savior" blindly when they don't even fully understand the motives of the savior.

This reminds me of the Stargate SG-1 episode called "2010" where we made an alliance with an alien race that someone like Steven Greer would have us believe is "benevolent" and they have every appearance of being so, only to find out later that the very vaccine they provide to save people is causing sterility, here are some highlights from that episode:


www.youtube.com...

But as you said this symptom doesn't even require aliens to victimize us, or to put it another way, "who will be the next "Hitler"? We need to be vigilant in our awareness to prevent a recurrence of an episode like that and your post is a good reminder to do so, thanks!

Star and flag!

[edit on 5-11-2009 by Arbitrageur]

Excellent post, and something that I had been tossing around for awhile since all the V threads started shooting up.

On an aside, I understand that this is a conspiracy theory board, but damn, can't a cool tv show just be a tv show. Does it HAVE to be some hidden Illuminati NWO thing. Not everything has some hidden agenda behind it, sometimes a duck ..is just a duck.

Originally posted by derpif
That wouldn`t be sooo bad if they weren`t fanatics.

Aren't there agenda based,ego obsessed fanatics on either side of the debate?

Originally posted by Echtelion
that btw had a rather obvious anti-totalitarian and antifascist subtext.

Right, the original series was influenced by Sinclair Lewis' It Can't Happen Here, about the rise of a fascist regime in the United States.* V was envisioned as a straight political drama, but with the success Star Wars NBC ordered it changed to science fiction.

And while the original series was about the rise of fascism, for the purposes of this discussion I extrapolated it as an allegory for any dictatorial regime; at brass tacks it matters little to those living under tyrants what label the tyrants give themselves.

Originally posted by Echtelion
Jumping from Hitler to Chavez again?

The leap I made from the Caesars to Hitler was even greater, just over two-thousand years as compared to the sixty-year leap from Hitler to Chavez.

Originally posted by Echtelion
Oh... you might have forgot...Or maybe they are the ones you consider as the "good cowboys"...?

Perhaps you missed it when I said...

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
There are many other examples.

You are so worried about the ideology of the above named and wanting to pick a fight over it you missed the point of the thread. It does not matter whether a government is fascist, Bolivarian socialist or Populares, each uses the devotion of its citizens as a means to gain power and control. That is what this thread is about, not the political ideology of a particular tyrannical government but how the devotion of people like Greer, et al are dangerous.

(*Sinclair takes his title from the attitude of the American people in his book. When President Windrip cements his power, Americans refuse to realize what is happening to their country, so convinced are they "It Can't Happen Here." There is historical precedent for this; for decades the Roman people did not realize the Republic was dead, replaced with a dictatorship. It is easy to see how this would apply to the Disclosure/Exopolitics fanatics)

[edit on 5-11-2009 by DoomsdayRex]

I agree with you almost completely. The view that (hypothetical) ETs are peaceful and loving goes against quite a lot of what has been researched thus far.

Full disclosure would, if history can be applied to something like this, most likely mean the end of human civilization; best case scenario, the ETs decide to carry us (intellectually, technologically, philosophically) for a while. If this were the case, then devotion due to survival would probably be our species' lot.

The Brotherhood of Light scenario seems more like the result of existential dilemma; when looking down the barrel of a gun, some people choose to close their eyes and go to a 'happy place'.

I agree with most everything in your OP, at least in principle. However, in fairness to Dr. Salla, he has actually provided a much more balanced approach than has Steven Greer or David Wilcock; as evidenced by, among other articles, this open letter written to Steven Greer:

Dr Greer claims that his database of 450 military, government, and corporate whistleblower cases do not support the idea that extraterrestrials are engaging in such human rights violations, nor that some extraterrestrials have reached agreements with covert government agencies. He boldly claims that "not a single one of these insiders can confirm the xenophobic rumors proffered by Salla." This is a gross misrepresentation of the data possessed by Dr Greer. This can be easily demonstrated by the case of Lt Col Philip Corso who is prominently featured as a Disclosure Project Witness, and is arguably the most widely known and significant whistleblower to ever emerge in UFO research. According to Greer, Corso did not confirm that some extraterrestrials were engaging in activities that violated individual rights which for Greer are xenophobic claims. That is a gross misrepresentation of Col Corso's position as evidenced in statements such as the following in his soon to be published private notes:

Exopolitics versus Exospin: A Response to Dr. Steven Greer

Furthermore, regardless of what many (including myself) might think about David Wilcock, he has been pretty consistent in his argument that ET forces would most likely be polarized--often misquoting "as below, so above" [sic]. His allegience with the Project Camelot folks is in line with this as well.

Steven Greer is certainly not alone in his complicit opinion that all ET are benevolent, but he does stand out to be sure. How he can possibly come to this conclusion is beyond me, it is neither logical, nor supported by evidence.

I'm not alone in thinking that direct human conditioning is occurring and has been occuring throughout much of history, I suspect that Greer may have been affected to a large degree by mind-control programs. (see my signature for a little info on where I'm coming from)



tamale

Originally posted by Tamale_214
I agree with most everything in your OP, at least in principle. However, in fairness to Dr. Salla, he has actually provided a much more balanced approach than has Steven Greer or David Wilcock; as evidenced by, among other articles, this open letter written to Steven Greer

I included Dr. Salla because of his claims that once Disclosure happens we will fall under the patronage of the hypothetical and supposed benevolent extraterrestrials. As for Mr. Wilcock, I included him because of the beliefs stated by his followers of what will happen when Disclosure happens; if these are not necessarily the opinions of Mr. Wilcock, I will happily edit my OP to reflect this.

I am convinced their is a definite programme at work with the intention of shaping the public mind in certain very specific ways. Some of that seems to be in the genre of Science Fiction. But no one on the outside can judge what is intended or what is transpiring or with what agenda.

As far as Stephen Greer goes, the current individual called "Stephen Greer" is not the Stephen Greer who led the disclosure presser in Washington, D.C. I won't speculate as to who or what this "replicant" is, thought I am willing to use that loaded word. Someone will envariably ask for proof which I do not have. But do look at older items on YouTube and the watch Kerry Cassidy and Stephen Greer duke it out on Project Camelot. All I can say is that through some experience, I find it extremely difficult to believe that it is the same individual who is using the name "Stephen Greer". Remember that is just my personal opinion and everyone should use their discretion and do due diligence before embracing an idea that I am presenting without objective proof.

reply to post by Pellevoisin


we all change with time and experience, its quite possible that given the type of public exposure he submits himself to plus the nature of his research that over time he has had to change who he is. That would be the most logical assumption, but then again whats logical isnt always what factual. Logically speaking we should be helping each other not trying to kill each other. so assuming the real Greer has been replaced by a clone thats been programmed to do its masters bidding might not be the most logical assumption doesnt make it the wrong one by default.