Why did the Catholics change the ten commandments ?

reply to post by DemonSpeedN



Nice sidestep, can I get my apology? You never addressed the whole
other issue you said I was wrong about, so just a reminder:

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Looks to me that God views breaking 1 law is the same as breaking them all. That is why we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

Originally posted by Max_TO
'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

Carving images is a creative act. "You should not create, only God creates" is a distortion of spiritual truth. Being creative is being divine.

Originally posted by kingofmd

 

Looks to me that God views breaking 1 law is the same as breaking them all. That is why we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

If one was looking through the Bible for a verse having to do with salvation and included the word, alone, what you would find is this one,
James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Doing a search for "Christ alone", results: 0
Doing a search for "grace alone", results: 0
Doing a search for "faith alone", results: the verse I quoted above.

You do not see him now but you believe in him, and so you rejoice with an indescribable and glorious joy, because you are attaining the goal of your faith – the salvation of your souls.

Concerning this salvation, the prophets who predicted the grace that would come to you searched and investigated carefully. They probed into what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating when he testified beforehand about the sufferings appointed for Christ and his subsequent glory. They were shown that they were serving not themselves but you, in regard to the things now announced to you through those who proclaimed the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven – things angels long to catch a glimpse of.

Therefore, get your minds ready for action by being fully sober, and set your hope completely on the grace that will be brought to you when Jesus Christ is revealed. Like obedient children, do not comply with the evil urges you used to follow in your ignorance, but, like the Holy One who called you, become holy yourselves in all of your conduct, for it is written, “You shall be holy, because I am holy.”

From the above quote, in the King James Version,

1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Here is part of the commentary of this verse, by John Gill.

and even now salvation is the end of faith, in like sense as Christ is the end of the law: as the law has its full accomplishment, and all its ends answered in Christ, so faith has its end, and all it looks for, desires, and wants, in salvation by Christ: and which is now "receiving"; for the saints not only shall receive, and enjoy the full possession of it hereafter, but they have it now; it is not only appointed to them, and wrought out for them, but is brought near, set before them, and applied to them, and put into the hands of faith by the Spirit of God; they have it in faith and hope, by which they are already saved; and in Christ their head and representative, in whom they are set down in heavenly places; and besides, they have the beginning, firstfruits, earnest, and pledge of it in their own hearts, as well as a right unto, and a meetness for the perfect possession of it hereafter; all which is matter of joy unspeakable, and full of glory.

The dictionary definition for meet is,

–adjective suitable; fitting; proper.

What Gill is saying is that there is a perfect salvation that we know about by faith. The action of grace inside us makes us suitable recipients of the thing hoped for, in actuality.
My interpretation is that the work Jesus did by living and dying on earth broke the bond holding us to hell, and his Spirit is then permitted to be a gift to us, in this life, to make us ready to enter into the ultimate fulfillment of all the promises that have been given, from the fall of Adam, onward. Which is when Jesus appears to us and revealed as the Christ, to all the world. Those who have heeded Peter's admonition will be brought in. Those who have not been perfected through the work of God, from inside as to change a person, and evidenced though good works, will be cast out.


[edit on 10-11-2009 by jmdewey60]

Ephesians 2:8-9

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast


The works James is talking about is the evidence of faith, NOT requirements for salvation. Otherwise Paul and James are contradicting each other, which would undermine the scriptures.

So... unless you have never: lied, stolen, blashphemed, lusted, dishonored your parents, murdered, coveted, created an idol (such as a god that is pleased by your works), than sure, your works would get you in to heaven. But last I checked, the only man to ever satisfy the law to the T, was Jesus Christ.

reply to post by Skyfloating


We were created in Gods image and as a result we are a very creative being . Given we cant come close to God's level of creating but to say we can't create is not accurate .

Originally posted by kingofmd
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast

The works James is talking about is the evidence of faith, NOT requirements for salvation. Otherwise Paul and James are contradicting each other, which would undermine the scriptures.

Read the verse that comes next, and is the conclusion of his thoughts.

For we are his workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works that God prepared beforehand so we may do them.

By grace we have been washed of our sins in order to be like Jesus. As Jesus was without sin, so we should strive to be perfect and Holy. It is not a suggestion, but a requirement. We are to "Walk as Jesus walked".

reply to post by kingofmd


Like I said before you misinterprate the Bible once again. What I believe James 2:10 is saying is if your guilty of one sin your are guilty of other sins. Basically when you do one bad thing to tend to do another and another, I could be wrong on my interpretation. Therefore I see no need for an apology even if I told you most of your beliefs are wrong.

They didn't change it. They just interpret where it actually starts deferent then Judaism

reply to post by Max_TO

I believe the poster meant we 'can't create' as in; time, matter, energy as God can. God can break the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics with just a spoken sentence.. "Let there be..".

Of course humans can "create' this or that, but we cannot create time, matter, or energy.

God can.

reply to post by Freeborn


I can will bet that if you were raised in any denominational church you have no true idea about the teachings of jesus. The reason I say this is not to put you down in any way but it is in the denominational churches design of themselves and the way they teach that proves that they dont know or just plain refuse to obey the words of god

testament means contract or (living) will

Old Testament mean just that; it is gods old contract with man. Why is there a new testament?So that man can come to truly know and do the will of god.

At the end of Hebrews it is stated and I quote Hebrew 8:13 "In that he saith, A new convenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." Another translation again Hebrew 8:13 "By calling this covenant new, he has made the first one obsolete and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear." Meaning it cant disappear until all Jewish people alive at that time had the chance to redeem themselves in the eyes of god and repent as the old law required them for they were all born under that covenant until the death and resurection of Jesus. Which that time has long passed.

But there is great news

Jesus in Mathew, Mark, Luke, or John made no mention of ten commandement as mattering to him. He only spoke of what one has to do to enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Paul and Peter made it very clear the only way to enter into the kingdom of heaven was to be born again in the name of Jesus Christ, who will instantly and unconditionally forgive you of your sins and fill you with the holy/perfect spririt. And he will send a messenger to guide you as you do the will of god. That was in John 16:13-15

I could go on and on but believe you me I have never heard a denominational church preach the word of god correctly they pick and choose what they want and that is why they too are obsolete and will soon disappear just like the old testament. They defy the will of god, you cant blame them though for lying to you they told you they were denominational meaning they believe that the bible is the living word of god BUT not this part or I am gonna intrepet it my way. With the help pf the holy spirit that god has so gratiously provided for us, through the name Jesus Christ, it is impossible to misinterpret.

May God bless that every man finds his way home to the father, Amen

reply to post by Max_TO


Oh dear; dont get me started!
Good on you Max for raising the forbidden questions! At least i know I'm not the only one to question the rubbish that has been put forth over the years by the Catholic Church as a representation of the prophet Jesus.
Without Jesus; they would have not had a monopoly business.

Satan is their next best friend.

With amended commandments, 'Incorruptables', A Veronica, then a Turin Shroud, and now a Nazi brown Shirt as pope!!!???
There is really no end to the amount of pomp and rubbish this fraternity will pump out (and for a tax-free dollar); to keep their 'flock' dumbed -down and submissive.....have a look at the threads that I did a while ago on Incorruptables and the amended Commandments.

Good luck with your thread; please continue with my blessing....hopefully a few sleepers have awakened since then (but I doubt it).
Expect no end to the ridicule and denial which will surely come your way for being so outspoken.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Max_TO

 

I believe the poster meant we 'can't create' as in; time, matter, energy as God can. God can break the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics with just a spoken sentence.. "Let there be..".

Of course humans can "create' this or that, but we cannot create time, matter, or energy.

God can.

When you are born again the holy spirit which is part of the gift that along with eternal salvation Jesus gave us, you become a son of god also and will inherit all rights and powers do to the son of god. A son of god is translated in hebrew to mean ANGEL.

Jesus also said you could move mountains if you your faith in your belief was strong enough, meaning if you dismiss all disbief and just jump you could even fly. With god anything is possible.

Who cares about the 10 commandments when you can go to confession and have your sins wiped clean. You don't have to live by the 10 commandments then, don't you? You only have to live by one.

"Do What Thou Wilt"

Originally posted by NuclearPaul
Who cares about the 10 commandments when you can go to confession and have your sins wiped clean. You don't have to live by the 10 commandments then, don't you? You only have to live by one.

"Do What Thou Wilt"

what is the rest of that law? Dou what Thou Wilt, but love under will..i think thats right u can correct me

reply to post by Max_TO


Simple. Because at some stage they were not willing to sacrifice their artists. But seeing how Michelangelo got blind from torturing hours on his back painting the celeing of the Sixteenian Chapel to be a whorehouse of saints and prophets, even showing God himself WITH cloathes?!?! Like some hipocrite watcher! (Bet Michelangelo laughs in his beard on some cloud, looking how the Africans copied and scaled the building, and got artists to do the celeing WITH masks, food and pay, together with security for the rest of their lives etc. An evil boss is brought down in the end, and the Poope is one of THE most horrible ones. Like buying your sould soul back from Satan. Not that it was any better for Raphael or any of the other for that matter.... The poppeye in Rome always makes sure he gets the greater cut or share or Cæsar....

Originally posted by jonathannas0187
reply to post by Freeborn

 

Paul and Peter made it very clear the only way to enter into the kingdom of heaven was to be born again in the name of Jesus Christ, who will instantly and unconditionally forgive you of your sins and fill you with the holy/perfect spirit. And he will send a messenger to guide you as you do the will of god. That was in John 16:13-15

Hebrews also said,

9:25 And he did not enter to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the sanctuary year after year with blood that is not his own, 9:26 for then he would have had to suffer again and again since the foundation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the consummation of the ages to put away sin by his sacrifice. 9:27 And just as people are appointed to die once, and then to face judgment, 9:28 so also, after Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many, to those who eagerly await him he will appear a second time, not to bear sin but to bring salvation.

Just as the sacrifices in the old covenant were a sign of, and not the actual, doing away of sins, the sign of the new covenant, baptism, is not the actual doing away of sin inside us. Paul wrestled with sin all his life. He wished to obey the law but his flesh was at enmity against the law. He never declared victory over sin in his body but the sinlessness promised with the return of Jesus.
The last words of verse 28 say, "but to bring salvation". Why would Jesus be coming to bring salvation if it was already accomplished? Because it is salvation by faith, that we have today. Just like the people of the old covenant had faith that if they offered sacrifices, they would have salvation, we look at Christ's sacrifice as being the "culmination of the ages" that brings all those desires for forgiveness to a surety. Because Jesus uses his own blood to enter into the Temple in Heaven to plead on out behalf. We should be like the Hebrews who waited expectantly for the return of the High Priest from behind the curtains of the tabernacle, as the sign of their acceptance, not having a premature celebration that we have nothing to worry about. We may have transferred our sins onto a sacrifice, but God has to accept it first. We do not want to be giving the offering of Cain, doing as we see fit. We should give the offering of Abel (our living offering), who followed the commandments.


[edit on 17-11-2009 by jmdewey60]

Why did God alias the Pope, change the constitution of all man kind?

Because he could, or thought he could. Does it really make a difference now that we see what those skunks have been up to all along? When will the Cure make a song called "Squeesing a Catholic!"?

If the commandments were truly the word of god, then what gives anyone the right to change it? unless maybe it was all a embellishment in the first place. an exaggeration of what someone thought they saw or a councils list to try to tame those whom required fear to live morally.

I am a Catholic. We agree with Jews and protestansts, that one should not take the Lords name in vain, shall not have craven images of idols and shall have no other Gods. We agree...so don't get caught up in semantics.

Catholics have artwork in our churches to help us focus on our prayers and spiritual relationship with God. We have images of God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, we also have much symbology depicting the Trinity. You will see many decorations and windows, stone work, woodwork depicting a Trefoil, this is a symbol of the Trinity and reminds us to think God always. Next we have the Stations of the Cross in all our churches. These are twelve to fourteen panels depicting the passion of Christ. We use the images to pray and remember what Jesus did and how he suffered for our sins. Every church will have a prominent Crucifix on he altar, this reminds and teaches us in a very graphic way, how much God loves us. Some churches have images of Matthew Mark Luke and John depicted as the Ox, Angel, Lion and Eagle. These are the four gospel writers, the evangelists. As the book of Revelation says, these are the living creatures which surround the throne of God.

This is why great Catherdrals like Notre Dame in Paris have so much carved on the exterior and filling the interior...it was purely evangelical. To teach the people of Paris the precepts of the faith. Rows of saints are carved, including all the apostles, the old testament prophets, saints and Christ himself. If you have ever seen the Pieta...a beautiful statue of Mary holding Jesus after he had been taken off the cross, you will understand how this artwork can move you and truly inspire awe in the love our Lord has for us.

The worlds greatest art has come directly from the Catholic church, in excellence and volume. The greatest strides in music, architecture, literature and art are part of our modern day world in great part because the Catholic Church inspired it and commissioned it. Seriously, if the church had not paid for the engineering to come up with the flying buttress....who would have done it? Without that engine of the church to keep it going civilization would not be where it is today.

Every Catholic Church will have and image or statue of Mary, as the mother of Jesus, she is the mother of God and should be honored and remembered, just as you would remember your own mother.

There are frequently paintings, frescoes, murals or stained glass depicting important scenes from the bible. The Catholic church taught the faith of Christiality through these images, because for the majority of time between the birth of Christ and present day, during most of that time ordinary people could not read. They learned the stories and gospels through these images.

Local churches would have great heroes who became saints and these saints would be remembered as statues in the churches, just like we do in civil society, communities make statues of their heroes.

We do not pray to statues in church...we pray only to God. Good Catholics ask saints and Mary to listen to our prayers and pray for us on our behalf, because we know they are already in heaven and they have influence and can aid us in our misery. This is because we truly believe in eternal life. When one of our relatives dies, we can continue to talk to them and we know they hear us, it is the same with the saints. We do not pray for things and luck, but we pray that we may do Gods will. Our most fervant prayer is that we may always stay in God's love and mercy and may we not fall out of grace and please may our sins be forgiven...we are not on our knees asking for a new diamond necklace or stuff like that.

We kneel in our churches where these images are, not because of the images, but because of the tabernacle. Jesus Christ is truly present in our church, when the Blessed Sacrament is in the tabernacle, a golden case for reserving the blessed sacrament (the consecrated bread). We kneel because we know we are in the presence of God -body and blood, soul and divinty of Jesus.-

And if you attend a Mass it all comes from the bible...every bit of it.

[edit on 11/29/2009 by Missing Blue Sky]

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
reply to post by Max_TO

 

Simple. Because at some stage they were not willing to sacrifice their artists. But seeing how Michelangelo got blind from torturing hours on his back painting the celeing of the Sixteenian Chapel to be a whorehouse of saints and prophets, even showing God himself WITH cloathes?!?! Like some hipocrite watcher! (Bet Michelangelo laughs in his beard on some cloud, looking how the Africans copied and scaled the building, and got artists to do the celeing WITH masks, food and pay, together with security for the rest of their lives etc. An evil boss is brought down in the end, and the Poope is one of THE most horrible ones. Like buying your sould soul back from Satan. Not that it was any better for Raphael or any of the other for that matter.... The poppeye in Rome always makes sure he gets the greater cut or share or Cæsar....

Michelangelo was a faithful catholic who lovingly depicted the Parousia in the Sistine Chapel in the greatest artwork ever created. Get over it.

[edit on 11/29/2009 by Missing Blue Sky]