Just In - H1N1 Mutates in Ukraine

Mods if I put this in the wrong place please move.

Bad news on H1N1 at Ron Pauls site, looks like this flu is finally mutating in the Ukraine.
scroll down to second maybe third update.

www.dailypaul.com...

Actually, the headline is misleading...no proof of anything yet.

However, I must admit I haven't thought of Chernobyl possibly affecting both the mutation rate of the virus and the susceptibility of the population. This certainly is a possibility that exists, and would help explain whatever is going on in the Ukraine. However, we all suffer from an extreme lack of verified information. Pretty much the only thing we can do at this stage is to wait and see what develops.

Please, any members in the affected areas, please send in first-person reports with pics if you can.

You should correct your headline, since the mutation is the worst people's fear and far from proven . It would mean that even if you've taken that vaccine you would only multiply the risk.

In fact they pretty much have no idea what virus takes majority of people ATM.

The above information did come from sources in the Ukraine.

Just follow the links through the pages. You'll arrive at:

www.who.int...


DING!

[edit on 4-11-2009 by PhoenixSix]

Maybe no one reads the links. Here's a better one
fourwinds10.com...

Originally posted by PhoenixSix
Just follow the links through the pages. You'll arrive at:

www.who.int...


DING!

[edit on 4-11-2009 by PhoenixSix]

Yea and the link says absolutely nothing about H1N1 mutating.

Why is all this FUD being allowed on here. Either you have credible supported evidence or don't make sensationalist threads. H1N1 in its current form is bad enough without people flying off the deep end.

Originally posted by AllexxisF1

Originally posted by PhoenixSix
Just follow the links through the pages. You'll arrive at:

www.who.int...


DING!

[edit on 4-11-2009 by PhoenixSix]

Yea and the link says absolutely nothing about H1N1 mutating.

Why is all this FUD being allowed on here. Either you have credible supported evidence or don't make sensationalist threads. H1N1 in its current form is bad enough without people flying off the deep end.

Well how 'bout this one:

www.rnw.nl...

muh man?

Swine flu is the firebrand for raving paranoia now. The only indication of a possible mutation is that the virus seems to be clustering in Ukraine (killing groups of closely connected people) which somehow shows it has become more lethal according to virologists.

The WHO has the samples and is analyzing them. Dr Niman gives mutation a "low" probability of being true in this case. (He's not saying no way, just "maybe, kind of").

If there is indeed a mutation I can't wait to see the reactions here and how the CDC and media will spin it.

Originally posted by AllexxisF1

Originally posted by PhoenixSix
Just follow the links through the pages. You'll arrive at:

www.who.int...


DING!

[edit on 4-11-2009 by PhoenixSix]

Yea and the link says absolutely nothing about H1N1 mutating.

Why is all this FUD being allowed on here. Either you have credible supported evidence or don't make sensationalist threads. H1N1 in its current form is bad enough without people flying off the deep end.

Really? Explain to me how H1N1 is bad enough in its current form. Some evidence would be nice. How many have died from it so far?

*Snip*

news.xinhuanet.com...

Some 478,000 people were registered with national health authorities as suffering from the flu since mid-October, of whom 17 had confirmed cases of swine flu, Lyudmila Mukharska, Ukraine's deputy chief health officer, told a news conference in Kiev.

The nationwide death count from flu-related illnesses since mid-October stood at 86, while 24,000 people have been hospitalized, Mukharska said.

She said the authorities had confirmed that four of the dead had died of the H1N1 virus

www.google.com...

Some 148,000 cases have been recorded in the past 24 hours, it added

Mod Note: General ATS Discussion Etiquette – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 11/4/2009 by semperfortis]

"The WHO is concerned at the speed with which the flu is spreading in Ukraine. A team of experts has been sent to the country to investigate whether the A(H1N1) virus has mutated. The organisation says the situation is actually no worse than in other countries. However, there is a striking rise in the number of patients admitted to hospital with lung diseases. It’s not clear whether they are infected with the A(H1N1) virus."

And the link I gave said that the test results were starting to come in and many are not just H1N1!

www.focus-fen.net...

Minsk. Virus A(H1N1) claimed seventh victim in Belarus, AFP reported. No case with lethal outcome as a result of A(H1N1) flu was registered in the state by the beginning of the month.

How many times has h1n1 mutated in the last 75 years? Anyone know?

So if these people aren't dying from H1N1, what are they dying from.
I believe this report out of the Ukraine.

The suggestion is clear: the virus was frozen in a laboratory freezer since 1950, and was released, either by intent or accident, in 1977. This possibility has been denied by Chinese and Russian scientists, but remains to this day the only scientifically plausible explanation.

www.virology.ws...

Originally posted by liveandletlive
The suggestion is clear: the virus was frozen in a laboratory freezer since 1950, and was released, either by intent or accident, in 1977. This possibility has been denied by Chinese and Russian scientists, but remains to this day the only scientifically plausible explanation.

www.virology.ws...

The current swine flu virus shares a lot of common ancestry but it is not the 1918 virus thawed out and re-used. I haven't found a single genetic analysis of it that confirms that, in fact the virus has components of more recent samples.

If it was created using the 1918 virus they added in some improvements and some handicaps. The pandemic timeline compared to the original is interesting to look at, however.

Edit to clarify: I felt like I didn't allow for just how close the current virus and the 1918 one are. They match in a lot of ways - they have the same features so to speak - swine, human and avian material. The current virus behaves a lot like the 1918 one. There's just enough material from other sources for virologists to be able to tell that the current virus isn't just the old one thawed out and set loose but if you were to say the modern version was built in a lab using the old one as a blueprint or even parts of the old one I couldn't argue with that.

There are credible researchers who claim the modern virus is artificial. U of Michigan and a virologist from Australia both released research papers which concluded it was a lab borne virus but those reports were squashed in a big hurry.

Anyway, I didn't want my original post to leave the impression of arguing against a nefarious origin, I think we just need to be very "correct" in the way we present the conspiracy. Otherwise we leave huge holes for skeptics and info control types to attack the theory with.

[edit on 4-11-2009 by ecoparity]

To understand and evaluate any flu virus's propensity to mutate, you have to realize that it is an RNA virus, and as such has no copy-proofing mechanism like DNA does. So properly speaking, flu virii mutate every time they replicate. Indeed, many researchers refer to what replicates within any given cell as a "mutant swarm":

(From The Great Influenza: The Story of the Deadliest Pandemic in History. Revised ed. New York: Penguin Books, 2005, by John M. Barry)

Whenever an organism reproduces, its genes try to make exact copies of themselves. But sometimes mistakes--mutations--occur in this process.


This is true whether the genes belong to people, plants, or viruses. The more advanced the organism, however, the more mechanisms exist to prevent mutations. A person mutates at a much slower rate than bacteria, bacteria mutates at a much slower rate than a virus--and a DNA virus mutates at a much slower rate than an RNA virus.

DNA has a kind of built-in proofreading mechanism to cut down on copying mistakes. RNA has no proofreading mechanism whatsoever, no way to protect against mutation. So viruses that use RNA to carry their genetic information mutate much faster--from 10,000 to 1 million times faster--than any DNA virus.

Different RNA viruses mutate at different rates as well. A few mutate so rapidly that virologists consider them not so much a population of copies of the same virus as what they call a "quasi species" or a "mutant swarm."

These mutant swarms contain trillions and trillions of closely related but different viruses. Even the viruses produced from a single cell will include many different versions of themselves, and the swarm as a whole will routinely contain almost every possible permutation of its genetic code.

Most of these mutations interfere with the functioning of the virus and will either destroy the virus outright or destroy its ability to infect. But other mutations, sometimes in a single base, a single letter, in its genetic code will allow the virus to adapt rapidly to a new situation. It is this adaptability that explains why these quasi species, these mutant swarms, can move rapidly back and forth between different environments and also develop extraordinarily rapid drug resistance. As one investigator has observed, the rapid mutation "confers a certain randomness to the disease processes that accompany RNA [viral] infections."

Influenza is an RNA virus. So is HIV and the coronavirus. And of all RNA viruses, influenza and HIV are among those that mutate the fastest. The influenza virus mutates so fast that 99 percent of the 100,000 to 1 million new viruses that burst out of a cell in the reproduction process (p. 106) are too defective to infect another cell and reproduce again. But that still leaves between 1,000 and 10,000 viruses that can infect another cell.

Both influenza and HIV fit the concept of a quasi species, of a mutant swarm. In both, a drug-resistant mutation can emerge within days. And the influenza virus reproduces rapidly--far faster than HIV. Therefore it adapts rapidly as well, often too rapidly for the immune system to respond.

So the flu, any flu, has a very high propensity to mutate naturally. This could be what has happened in the Ukraine. Add in the fact that the Ukraine is also the country that is home to Chernobyl, and it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest that the thing's mutated in a bad direction there.

That said, however, we have no, repeat no, proof whatsoever one way or the other yet. I am as frustrated as everyone else with the lack of hard facts...we just have to continue to wait and see, unfortunately.

More info here.

labvirus.wordpress.com...
Also, an excerpt from this site:www.theflucase.com... 3Ahighlighted-news&Itemid=105&lang=en

Ukrainian News Agency "Fraza" reported that, according to informed sources, "it has been confirmed 100 % Pneumonic Plague in Ukraine".

The Agency asserts that "the head physician of the medical institutions has sent out an informal disposal - not to sow panic, to refute the information about the plague, and to speak only of swine influenza".

It is also required to distribute masks at health facilities with 8 levels of protection and anti-plague protection costumes. There is also an informal order not to allow any visitors to see the patients.

According to the "Fraza" agency, "today in Ukraine pneumonic plague is going in parallel with swine flu. The plague has killed over 60 people, and about 14 from the flu.

Meanwhile, the press service of the Ministry of Health of Ukraine reported that there is only one death from "California" virus A/N1N1 in Ukraine.

"In Ukraine there are 22 cases recorded of the virus A/N1N1 disease and there is only one fatal consequence as a result. All other cases of death from influenza has only a speculative attitude to "California" virus," press service reports.

The situation with the epidemic of influenza is a complex and unpredictable because of the propensity of influenza A/H1N1 virus to mutation, said First Deputy Minister of Health Mr. Lazoryshynets on Monday, November 2.

"The situation is complicated and unpredictable. We found a strain of this virus in our laboratory ... This virus is dangerous because it can mutate, and we can get a very different kind of virus, which was in Latin America or in Mexico, now it is European ", - said Lazoryshynets at a press conference, the "Correspondent" magazine informs.

At a press conference Lazoryshynets also said that there are 22 officially confirmed cases of influenza A/H1N1 in Ukraine.

First Vice Prime Minister Oleksandr Turchinov previously stated that as of Monday morning, November 2, there are 64 registered deaths in Ukraine from flu and acute respiratory viral infections.

Meantime, according to official information the highest level of epidemiological risk is declared in Ivano-Frankivsk (Stanislav) area, from 2 November. This decision was made by Ivano-Frankivsk Regional emergency epidemiological commission at the extended session on November 2.

In accordance with the Commission, quarantine will last for all educational institutions in the area until 20 November, a commission to monitor the distribution of medicines is also made, which come in the region as humanitarian aid.

The commission agreed that health workers will provide individual first aid kit. There will be extra transport allocated to visit patients by the district doctors.
According to the Ministry of Health, today in Ukraine there are 255 000 registered cases of influenza and SARS, of whom 15 000 were hospitalized.

Ministry of Transport and Communications of Ukraine introduced a permanent monitoring of the situation on a clear implementation of the planned anti-epidemic measures in public transport.

A special monitoring group studied the transport department on November 2, how the anti-epidemiological measures were applied at the Kiev railway station, central bus station of the capital and the International airport "Borispol".

Polish epidemiologists November 3 arrive in Ukraine for obtaining specimens from patients with the Ukrainians. The experts will arrive in Lviv, where it is supposed to take 190 samples.

Polish epidemiologists are expected to arrive in Ukraine on November 3 to obtain samples from patients. The experts will arrive in L

[edit on 4-11-2009 by Angiras]