Penn and Teller on First Person Shooter Video Games

I thought that this video speaks out on the false idea that shooting and handling guns, somehow, turns kids violent. Although it is basically blasting the notion that first person shooters are turning our kids into killing machines, it also relates to the inaccuracies pushed by the anti-gun crowds.

So, please, watch and relate.

And if you are easily offended by Swear Words, approach with CAUTION!!!!!




www.bigvidpro.com...


Adding this:

I found it interesting also how the anti game people are so willing to make new laws "against" the games, when the gamers mother was willing to take on the parental role of controlling and running her own life.

[edit on 103131p://10America/Chicago31 by Tinman67]

Awesome video!!!

If these anti-gun folks didn't have violent video games to go after it would be violent movies, if not for violent movies it would be violent TV shows, if not for violent TV shows they would go after hunting, if not for hunting they would go after... Well you get the idea. It is funny how the 9 year old kid did not react the way that the "scientists" would have wanted.

I would have loved to see what some of the anti-violent video game people would have said if they had the opportunity to see that footage.

reply to post by Cool Breeze


I agree. But these "nuts" won't stop trying to ban games, guns or anything else because they have so sure that they are right and that they must save the rest of us from the imaginary demons.
I wonder if the majority understands how violent the world was before video games, before tv and movies and even, going back a ways, before firearms?

Do you not think that the german government have more experts than those two clowns. Germany bans and wants to ban so many of these things.

But heck you seen them disprove it in a show, so it must be true.

If it does not work, why does the army use simulators, just like the games you play to condition people to kill.

I'm just guessing this is the show where they had the kid, who loved firs-person shooters, shoot a real M-16? Then he ended up crying? I watched the show, a few weeks back. Although, I don't agree with Penn or Tellers' views on most things.

Yeah. Just goes to show how people always point the fingers elsewhere to blame something besides themselves for their childrens actions!

The truth is probably that there are a few kids who get affected by it, but the majority doesnt. When I was growing up, I enjoyed martial arts movies so I started training martial arts for a couple of years. I dont think I would have done that without the movies.

I also play a lot of shooters and Im pretty good at it, but I cant watch real videos of people getting shot because I get so upset. The images burn into my mind. You know the video with the guy getting tazored? I watched it and I will never watch anything like that again. It was horrible to me. So perhaps the reality is not as easy as they want it to be?

I think so.


[edit on 1-11-2009 by Copernicus]

reply to post by andy1033


In WWII 80 to 85% of battlefield soldiers never even fired their rifles, generally because of fear and confusion. By Vietnam the numbers were nearly reversed. All this without any kind of simulators.
I would contend that, overall, we live in the least violent era of humanity. That things like video games, movies and other media do not increase violence. Instead they decrease violence, by offering alternatives to physical, real world releases of these natural human tendencies.
The availability of news, accounting of statistics and freedom of real time communications make everything seem bigger and closer to home.
As for the Germans, they have become so wimpafied since WWII, they cower away from everything, like free speech.

reply to post by Tinman67


Its a fact that the military use simulators to train people to kill. SO you cannot tell me, that it works for them, and somehow its not doing something to the everyday joe. Even if it only breeding total apathy for your fellow man, its still not right.

I have never played these games, they make me feel ill inside. The games also are getting very real life aren't they. Even the military brought out a game didn't they, i wonder why.

Americans what ever anyone says have this obsession with violence. No wonder people see your country for the way it is. But its not just that, your country breeds total apathy for anything humane, and human.

If you play them its upto you, but for me, i would rather sports games, or a rts, or something.

Penn and teller have been wrong on plenty of things, and they get people just to laugh at stuff, instead of looking at things in a serious way.

Wow!!!!
Great video. Parents need to become more liable for their childrens
upbringing. They look for every outlet to blame, and ignore the possibility
that many other factors play a role in their development.

.
I’ve always enjoyed Penn and Teller’s comedy magic act. They’re entertaining guys.

But lately they’ve been speaking out on issues with a bit more mixed results.

In my opinion there is definitely plenty of room for discussion on the issue of youth gun violence, and the role violent video games might play.

One guy in the video mentioned a formula: Troubled youth + available guns + games that simulate shooting = a recipe for youth gun violence. That seems pretty reasonable to me. However, like any recipe, you can change any one of the ingredients to change the final outcome. So perhaps each one of them should be examined:

Why are our youth troubled? This would seem to be the number one problem and where we should be focusing our attention. But it’s a large, general, cultural issue and not easily addressed. Broken homes, working parents, poor schools, over--permissiveness in the name of freedom… there are many possible contributors. No easy fix here.

Why are guns available to people that shouldn’t have them? This is already a hotly debated issue in our society. There is a real conflict between freedoms for law-abiding people versus restrictive laws to keep stupid people from doing stupid things. But people are imperfect. Only the most absolute and sweeping bans would have much chance of being effective. And then only the criminals would have guns. Again, no easy fix here.

So what about violent video games as trainers to shoot? I suppose there is some truth there. But really our whole culture in America is training for violence. Sure there is lip service against using force, but the contrary message comes across much louder. From the President of United States invading countries for dubious reasons to the cop on the street using unnecessary force. Television shows where the macho fantasy figure hero solves problems with a fist to someone’s face. Gangster music. Sports where winning is everything. The list is endless. To be tough and to win is supposed to be cool. To give in and walk away is to be humiliated.

Teenagers trying to fit into a claustrophobic school social scene don’t like to be humiliated. To be humiliated is like the worst thing that can happen. When our society provides no acceptable solution to their conflicts that doesn’t make them look like a loser or a coward or a tattletale, they may feel hopeless and desperate.

But our culture will tell them what to do. They can try using words--but not to negotiate or make peace or resolve the issue. We’re taught that words are for putting people down, for making them look foolish and showing how clever you are. Every conflict is a contest where someone wins and someone loses. Words are just another way to win at someone else’s expense.

And if you can’t win with words, then you punch them in the face. And if they’re stronger than you are, you go get a gun. Anything not to lose.

So, in the end, I guess I have to agree with Penn and Teller in one way: good kids aren’t going to go around shooting people. Good kids know the difference between fantasy and reality and understand the consequences or their actions. But I have to add that the problem of violence in our society is complex and deep-seated. Violent video games may be a part of the problem or they may just be a symptom. Or for good kids they may just be harmless fun. But when parents aren’t available and guns are, when our culture whispers in your ear that you must never, ever be a loser, it’s getting harder and harder to raise good kids.
.

reply to post by andy1033


You are aware of the huge difference between an army simulator and lets just say COD 4 Modern Warfare. I am sorry to say that these two are very different, one aims to train and desensitize and the other looks to entertain and at worst take up a lot of someone's free time.

Look I have played a lot of FPS games and have also shot guns. These FPS games have not turned me into some brainless killing machine, in fact I also am known to play quite a bit of scenario paintball which is way more of a simulator than any video game could be and that has yet to turn me into homicidal maniac. People look for any kind of excuse to try and get rid of guns it is so funny.

I say oh well let them try and take the guns from the people because it will not end well for the people trying to physically take them. I think Katrina showed a lot of people what their plans are, go door to door confiscating guns from law abiding citizens when they likely needed the protection the most. I just hope to god the people stand up for their right to keep and bear arms.

reply to post by andy1033


Ok I have two things to say about your last comment.

1. The game you say that the U.S. Army has put out is not even a First Person Shooter which is what the whole program was about. The fact that you are looking through the character's eyes and looking down the barrel of a gun while shooting at people. The Army game you speak of is a Third Person Shooter which means that you see the character's back, kind of like you are following them. The game totally sucked and the only reason they put this game out there was to make some money. The engine that was used for the game had so many bugs in it that there is no way for that game to ever be used as a simulator

2. Yes you're right they did make me laugh because they are able to bring something to an audience that makes them go, "Hmm, they kinda have a point." They give them a different way of seeing things. Like the guy with that rediculous triangle, lets see playing with fake guns on a video game is dangerous but don't mind the fact that not only is this guy an avid gun collector but while he is posing with his guns he points them at the camera like he is going to shoot it like he is some sort of cowboy or something...

Just keep an open mind because 90% of people out there can see the difference between reality and fiction. Just like all anti-gun people lets punish the 90% because that 10% can't control themselves like adults!! IDIOTS!!!

reply to post by andy1033


I Love it. "Americans have an obsession with violence", what a crock of crap, oh I know, the world was so peace loving before bad old America came along.

Believe it or not we are not a violent people and I for one don't like the nationalistic bigotry that you spew.

Look into what is on the training video's the U.S. military uses, it's not what you think. Our military changed the way it trained in the 50's on because it wanted our soldiers to survive, not urinating themselves waiting for hostiles to kill them. No video can do this, no video can get you ready for the realities of battle. You fight as you train and first person shooters and other video games don't train you to fight. You have to go out and train, live.




[edit on 073030p://11America/Chicago01 by Tinman67]

reply to post by Tinman67


Come on don't you know that America is the only violent people anymore. We are the reason why Muslims hate the Jews and America is where Hitler got his playbook from

thanks for posting that. ive been obsessed with with video games since my mom got grand theft auto 1 when it came out, i was little then. i would have to say i turned out "normal". my nephew is 7 and he love GTA just as much as i do but he understands its just a game. although his mother thinks he needs therapy becuase he likes violent video games, and she tries to get him to play football but he doesnt want to because he doesnt want to hurt anyone or get hurt himself.

its all but natural for little kids to be violent especailly boys. me and all my friends endlessly beat the crap out of each other when we were young and still do just for kicks. some people just need something to blame for every horrible thing that happens in our little ""pc" world. and it is true i made a bunch of friends since i got a ps3 2 years ago and an internet connection.

Originally posted by andy1033
reply to post by Tinman67

 

Its a fact that the military use simulators to train people to kill. SO you cannot tell me, that it works for them, and somehow its not doing something to the everyday joe. Even if it only breeding total apathy for your fellow man, its still not right.

I have never played these games, they make me feel ill inside. The games also are getting very real life aren't they. Even the military brought out a game didn't they, i wonder why.

Americans what ever anyone says have this obsession with violence. No wonder people see your country for the way it is. But its not just that, your country breeds total apathy for anything humane, and human.

If you play them its upto you, but for me, i would rather sports games, or a rts, or something.

Penn and teller have been wrong on plenty of things, and they get people just to laugh at stuff, instead of looking at things in a serious way.

Actually the simulators are for training weapons familiarity. Has nothing to do with killing.

This is bull#. I grew up playing video games and I never went around and started spraying a mall or school!

And the thing that makes video games different from real life scenarios is you are looking at a television at an animated figment of someones imagination. It will be a lot different when you are looking through the scope at someone who is living and breathing in a real life situation.

And yes the army have educational tools that may seem like video games but they are far from it. When I was with the Australian Army we used a thing called the WTTS we used it to become accustomed to the weapons we were using without having to fire the real thing.

At the end of the day these wankers who are trying to ban these games are just too soft to put up with a little bit of animation and colours

Jumping all over video games is just the flavor of the week for these people to cry about. In the 90's it was rap music and Marilyn Manson making kids violent in the 80's heavy metal music and D&D made you kill yourself, today the big bad evil is video games.

It's simply another in a long list of excuses to take responsibility out of parents hands because God forbid if my kid is a f-up it can't possibly be my fault. The anti video game thing has about run it's course imo, they'll move on to something else soon, most likely the evilest of evils the sinister internet.

Originally posted by andy1033
Do you not think that the german government have more experts than those two clowns. Germany bans and wants to ban so many of these things.

But heck you seen them disprove it in a show, so it must be true.

If it does not work, why does the army use simulators, just like the games you play to condition people to kill.

The Germans are funny people.. they say No on video game violence but say yes to nudity and porn that would make a whore blush.

Nudity and sexually explicit images in games are O.K... but pull out a gun and it's OH NY GOD We can't have that!

Proof, this is not about morals or violence in games but about POWER and what you control.

Game companies generally make 3 or 4 versions of the same game to ship to other countries. For instance here in the USA the game Wolfenstein has a swastika. The same game when sent to Germany had all the swastikas changed to another symbol.

Many video games made in Europe (not Germany) are a lot more violent than games in the USA. It's become a thing for gamers that if they want games with more nudity, order the game from Germany or if you want a game with more blood and guts, order the game from the UK.

When a new game hits the market and certain things are cut out because they are sending it to a censored country people flood the message boards and discuss the best places to buy the game version they want at the best price.

I always thought, in my opinion, these shooter games calmed people down. I only play gta4 online, and no other shooter games, which probably isn't a great example, but I always thought the opposite. People say it feeds fantasy, and urges to kill? Then why can't I have sex with women in an online sex game to satisfy my urge to have sex?

These lies about these games are just excuses people make for not picking up on the clues they should have picked up on or just missed. Of coarse, I would probably have to say that someone who has thoughts of killing sprees and stuff like that would probably be drawn to a game like that, though. But, if you think about it, it's our last defense to catch someone before they do something bad.

Anyway, I totally disagree with the disinformation that's out there about these games. When something bad happens and we can't process what has been done, something is almost always blamed to make everyone feel better, and to get their minds off of what they could have or should have done.

Maybe another point of view is what peen and teller need, I mean, that other guy doesn't even talk? Who knows, maybe they'll agree with what I think after a discussion about it. It sounds like I have some work to do if I want peen and teller to understand where I'm coming from. I'll have to try to send them an e mail.