if you cross borders illegally - this is what you get...

reply to post by subfab


You have a rational right to health care, of course, but not an irrational right to it.

It goes back to the loaf of bread split equally among the whole society, you don't get much. It's free but you don't get a useful amount. But where is the fair trade? If you you say those that play by the rules must support those that don't, something is wrong.

Health care costs money, and you must doing something in trade for it. This is fair. Doing nothing and expecting something is not fair and is an irrational expectation.

I prefer the freedom to try to do what I can to better myself. I do not want to listen to the likes of eco marxist Al Gore lying about carbon dioxide, and then sitting at home in the dark and waiting for death.

As I posted here before there is technology that could scrub the CO2 out of the atmosphere if CO2 is really a problem. Cap and trade is a joke if China and India don't do it. To handicp the whole economy over this false issue is a crime, it is fraud. The eco marxist of course wants economic growth to stop to save the world, so truth does not matter.

The Mexicans choose to come to the USA not Cuba, however they may sneak into Cuba too, but I haven't read about it. I assume they come to the US to make money and send it home, and therefore better themselves.

Originally posted by Aggie Man
On the subject of driver's license...at least, if they can get a license...then they can buy insurance...that's not to say that they always do...but no license = no insurance.

I had an ex-fiance that is an illegal alien and she did not have a license but she did have insurance.. not sure how that one worked.

On the flip side there are the illegals that don't have insurance and they don't pay taxes but they do take advantage of the benefits provided by my tax dollars / my hard work. Would that change if they were automatically made citizens once the crossed our border and forced to pay taxes like the rest of us?

Then you get to the idea of what makes a country a country - borders, language and culture right?

Sound to me like we need to make borders illegal if we ever hope to put a stop to all these idiotic territorial piss monkeys of Earth. GO ONE WORLD ORDER!!! And kick the asses of the asses that would love nothing more than to perpetuate division among us all!!!

I Have seen legal citizens turned away from jobs while illegals were hired instead. Many of the illegals I have spoken to were not poor when coming here. It cost them a lot of money for false documents, fake Id's, stolen social security numbers. Some women with 2 and 3 kids lied to get welfare. They were not single mom's raising their children. They had boyfriends who made good money and the women worked too.

Most of these people all had cable television, cell phones with cameras, nice vehicals and some even owned their own homes after a while. Many called America stupid. And while they were getting free medical, my husband and I had to struggle to pay for ours. When ours ends in December from Cobra, we will be lucky if we can afford coverage as we both have pre-existing conditions.

I am near the end of my unemployment checks and he is in the hospital and will need a lot of care when he comes home. We can't get help from anywhere because we have money in the bank. I will soon be living off that money. When I see how illegals screw the sytem and are catered to, while legal law abiding citizens get left in the dust, it's hard to have sympathy. How many of our legal citiens are now living in tent cities because homeless shelters are filled to capacity?

Open borders allows murderers, gangs, pedophiles etc. to come through. Ask the families of victoms how they feel about open borders. Those who have lost their children, husbands, wives, brothers, sisters at the hands of an illegal. I bet if your own life or that of a loved one was affected, you wouldn't be so anxious to keep those borders open.

My ancestors came here legally. There are many immigrants waiting in line to get their citizenship. Why should illegals jump ahead of these people who have waited so long? Why should illegals get catered to while our own legal citizens fall further and further behind?

reply to post by Night Star


I'm tellin ya the wukky plan would be cost effective, and beneficial.

You catch an illegal, they immediately are conscripted into the army. They are trained, and sent into combat. No Iffs ands or butts. They either go to one of our endless wars, or they get kicked out to a country we are at war with.

Screw sending them back to the country they came from, that just gives them the option of coming back again. Send em to countries we hate.

reply to post by mrmonsoon


And this is why the folks at the DMV's in most other states are making people bring in more and more info to get or switch to their DL's. And people grumble.

Just wait, within the next year or so, KS is going to begin having everyone bring in their birth certificates and immigration paperwork to renew DL's and ID's. Photos will be taken first, all doc's will be scanned into a data base.

Poor illegals

Originally posted by Night Star
Open borders allows murderers, gangs, pedophiles etc. to come through.

What? America doesn't have their own fiends? Tell me, which nation on this planet has more of their citizen in prison than any other, hum? Forget to check your own stink before commenting on the stink of others?

And, listen all ya bigots/patriots/gansters out there .. there is no such damn thing as an illegal humon .. except for maybe a racist bigoted human!

Grow up all you childish little feuding Earthling humons and get your poo together. This us-humons vs. them-humons reminds me of a bunch of immature children fighting among themselves. All this border crap reminds me of those little twerpy kids that would try to draw a line down the middle of their shared bedroom and cry to mommy when their OWN SIBLING would cross that line. And who said ANY of you should be able to mooch off of anyone else? Just because you're an American gangster that entitles you to mooch off of other American gangsters? GANGSTAS! If all I had left was a dollar, I'd give it to one of those (so-called) illegal humons before I gave it to any bigoted entitlement-expecting citizen of this country!

Little baby bigot humons, what stupid fools and little retards they are. Again, there is no damn such thing as an illegal humon, get that through your thick skulls you bunch of hairless chimp humons of EARTH!

There, I said it. GAWD, are humons ever a bunch of bigoted racist gangsta morons.

reply to post by Anti-Evil


What border do I have to cross to get you to turn off the caps lock key?

Originally posted by Anti-Evil
BUT, IF YOU CROSS THE U.S. BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET:
A DRIVERS LICENSE
A SOCIAL SECURITY CARD
WELFARE
FOOD STAMPS
AND, FREE HEALTH CARE?

Stop spreading lies and gross exaggerations, perpetuating fear and hatred. The US has a severe labor shortage in the agriculture industry - what we need is a better guest worker program, not a billion dollar fence. Washington Post

The 1996 welfare reform bill disqualified illegal immigrants from nearly all means-tested government programs including food stamps, housing assistance, Medicaid and Medicare-funded hospitalization. The only services that illegals can still get are emergency medical care and K-12 education.

You neocons are sad bunch of people. You are incapable of convincing people through intelligent argument. So, you rely on scare tactics and lies. I would rather save the life of an illegal immigrant bleeding to death in an emergency room than a citizen who honestly considers letting him bleed to death to save money. You sir are a disgrace to this country.

Social Security
Illegal Immigrants Bolster Social Security by Billions - NYT

Starting in the late 1980's, the Social Security Administration received a flood of W-2 earnings reports with incorrect - sometimes simply fictitious - Social Security numbers. It stashed them in what it calls the "earnings suspense file" in the hope that someday it would figure out whom they belonged to. The file has been mushrooming ever since: $189 billion worth of wages ended up recorded in the suspense file over the 1990's, two and a half times the amount of the 1980's. In the current decade, the file is growing, on average, by more than $50 billion a year, generating $6 billion to $7 billion in Social Security tax revenue and about $1.5 billion in Medicare taxes. In 2002 alone, the last year with figures released by the Social Security Administration, nine million W-2's with incorrect Social Security numbers landed in the suspense file, accounting for $56 billion in earnings, or about 1.5 percent of total reported wages. Social Security officials do not know what fraction of the suspense file corresponds to the earnings of illegal immigrants. But they suspect that the portion is significant. "Our assumption is that about three-quarters of other-than-legal immigrants pay payroll taxes," said Stephen C. Goss, Social Security's chief actuary, using the agency's term for illegal immigration.

Still True - How immigrants Saved Social Security

One reason is that many undocumented workers pay taxes during their work lives but don’t collect benefits later. Another is that undocumented workers are entering the United States at ever younger ages and are expected to have more children while they’re here than if they arrived at later ages. The result is a substantial increase in the number of working-age people paying taxes, but a relatively smaller increase in the number of retirees who receive benefits — a double boon to Social Security’s bottom line.

White House Report Lauds Immigrants’ Positive Effects
2007 White House Council of Economic Advisors Report

And in a 2007 report, the White House Council of Economic Advisers asserted that, over the long haul, immigrants end up paying off: The long-run impact of immigration on public budgets is likely to be positive. Projections of future taxes and government spending are subject to uncertainty, but a careful study published by the National Research Council estimated that immigrants and their descendants would contribute about $80,000 more in taxes (in 1996 dollars) than they would receive in public services. The overall effect, the council said, is a bit of a wash -- and a minor one at that: The long-term fiscal approach imparts four main lessons: 1) although subject to uncertainty, it appears that immigration has a slightly positive long-run fiscal impact; 2) skilled immigrants have a more positive impact than others; 3) the positive fiscal impact tends to accrue at the federal level, but net costs tend to be concentrated at the state and local level; and 4) the overall fiscal effect of immigration is not large relative to the volume of total tax revenues – immigration is unlikely to cure or cause significant fiscal imbalances.

[edit on 31-10-2009 by andrewh7]

Originally posted by anotherdad
reply to post by Aggie Man

 

You may live in the same world but clearly a different reality. Ask your mommy and daddy if i can have some more money too.

Umm, I'm 36 years old. Don't need mommy and daddy's conservative money. AND I went to one of the most conservative colleges in the US. YET, I was able to overcome that adversity to be a well centered, compassionate adult that doesn't play follow the leader.

Let's just let the NWO take over so there won't be border disputes.

reply to post by Night Star


bump

[edit on 31-10-2009 by AmericanDaughter]

I have spent many, many years donating to poor people when I could afford to. I have donated food, clothing, money etc. It doesn't matter what color they are, what culture they have, what religion they believe etc. yes, humans are humans and everyone deserves a chance at a better life. No one can play the race card with me. I have friends of different cultures.

Different states handle things differently. So where some illegals are getting benefits in some states, they may not be getting them in others. With millions of un-employed legal citizens, it is a slap in the face for illegals to be able to hold jobs. Where does that leave the legal citizens and their families? They have bills to pay too. They need to eat to survive too. But pro illegal immigration backers don't care one bit about that. Who cares if the legal citizens can afford a roof over their heads or food for themselves and their children,
or medicines that keep them alive and well? I for one will stand up for them and not be intimidated by others who just toss those people aside as though they don't exist. They do and they are suffering.

reply to post by Aggie Man

You know what would happen if we had a world without borders? Everyone would be living where the United States used to be.

dam this makes me crazy,
i own a restaurant and my wife asked a table of four where they were from as they were our first table and obviously not english. they said, poland,...................... fair enough.
then my wife asked if they were on holiday? they said no we live here do you have a problem with that? but in a hostile manner.

my wife was being hospitable. as always, but these guys were so noisey and badly behaved it was nuts. they tried to tell us we were bad for not speaking polish, by the time they had left they had proposioned my wife many times broken our tip jar and threw up outside the restaurant.

they were a bit pissed when they came in at 6.30pm, but there is no reason to act the way they did.

my wife and i are both mixed european back ground, but both born and raised in england.
i dont understand why europeans come to work in britain anymore, the euro is shot they are better off at home, and i would love nothing better to move from engand ( thats my goal) and have english food shops,

i just dont understand their mentality, we now have polish shops in my town,

im not aginst migration of any kind, as i want to do that myself, but i cannot stand people expecting people to welcome everybodywith open arms,

i know where i want to live in the future, so i am learning the language, and in my wildeast dreams i would not expext that country to speak or accomodate my language or life style, in any way, its upto me to fit in.
i will say again i have nothing against other nations moving to britain, but #ing learn english and some respect. and why the # would you want to come here in the first place.

this statement obviously don't apply to everyone, but the one it does wont be able to read this anyway, do hey

laters its me

ps. sorry for the spelling,
i ment so hey at the end, amongst other things

Originally posted by Night Star
With millions of un-employed legal citizens, it is a slap in the face for illegals to be able to hold jobs.

Well, a job is NOT a RIGHT. It is NOT the responsibility of one individual to create and offer another individual a job. And, why should an employer be forced to hire their workforce from a select bunch of gangstas? An individual, an employer, should be able to hire whom ever they damn well please! THAT is FREEDOM .. not this other gangsta crap where one person MUST only hire THESE arrogant snots that think the job YOU created and offering is ONLY for THEM and THEIR KIND.

Seeing how awful and stuck up and arrogant Americans can be, I don't think I'll ever help another, preferring to help those the arrogant snots would call illegal humans here upon planet Earth.

KARMA! Get use to it!

Originally posted by chiron613
But people are starving, dying of preventable or curable illnesses, subjected to oppression and violence, in order for us to have our SUV's, cable, McDonalds, and other frivolous and even unhealthy habits. That, I have a problem with.

They are starving, dying, subjected to oppression and violence because governments care more about money and power than they do about their own people. No government is so poor it can't care for it's own, but they are wasting it on weapons and wars that destroy their country and people.

It wouldn't do any of those people one bit of good for all in the lands of plenty to stop eating out, or giving up the SUV or any other thing. Nothing we save is going to help them in the situation they are in.

As things stand now, most anything that is sent to help people in desperate need are stolen by the either their own military or their enemy's. So our well meaning supply train ends up supplying the war effort instead. People have died trying to get supplies through to some areas. It's a sad and discouraging situation to say the least.

I'm not a socialist, but I believe every person deserves to be freely given the basics and the means to pursue a safe and healthy life. And the fact that some do not have these things is the fault of greedy, power hungry people in the governments of our world.

Originally posted by andrewh7


Stop spreading lies and gross exaggerations, perpetuating fear and hatred. The US has a severe labor shortage in the agriculture industry - what we need is a better guest worker program, not a billion dollar fence.


[edit on 31-10-2009 by andrewh7]

What we need are land mines and Marine snipers. And politicians with the backbone to use them.

Yes, let no one. How about if somebody forgets their passport we shot them right there? You know, just to be sure it isn't somebody trying to get a better life.