If you own land, could you secede and make your own country?

Okay, assuming that your are not paying for the land anymore, and you completely own it, could you secede and make your own country? If America tells you otherwise, you can show them the documents telling them it's your land. If they say no, wouldn't they be communist. By saying no, they would be saying it isn't your land, and if it isn't your land, it is the government, and that means it is owned by them.


What do you think?

I have no idea if it'll work but I think it's a great idea

It is no one's land to own, neither you or the government. We do not have dominion over other living beings, despite us thinking so.

But to answer your question, the United States would not allow it within its borders. The Supreme Court ruled against allowing any state from seceding from the union, so why would they allow some random citizen do it?

It is 'unconstitutional', according to the US Supreme Court.

Texas v. White House; 1869

reply to post by Bushido Kanji


What about here in the UK? Same rules i presume?

I love the idea though, something i have always thought about.

Peace.

You can call it whatever you want to but when you don't pay property taxes the city or state will come take it away from you and if some developer has a more profitable use for the land they can just evict you off of it and either pay you pennies on the dollar for it or even pay you nothing and send you a bill for "environmental damages".

The only way to have your own country is to have the means to protect it from anyone else. Given the current state of US military technology I'd say you have about zero chance of doing so.

You could always go buy that offshore oil rig (Sealand) or get a couple of hundred ex spec ops buddies and go take over one of the smaller Latin American countries. If you have the money I'd be willing to bet there are former Russian republics who might be willing to sell you a few acres and let you branch off into your own Balkan state.

reply to post by Phlynx


With property taxes, I don't think you could ever own land. And I guess you could try, but the government would throw you in prison for treason.

reply to post by Phlynx

If you own land, could you secede and make your own country?

Sure you could but... without external recognition, who's going to pay attention to your declaration of independence? As I recall, that has been at least one Native American nation to nullify all treaties and declare itself separate and sovereign from the US... but the US of course, just ignored them.

It's like, if a nation arises and nobody sees it, does it exist?



[edit on 29-10-2009 by redoubt]

Think about it. If the American people no longer wanted to be under the Federal government, they could secede. Whether or not the action is seen as legitimate by the government wouldn't matter. Once it's done, all of the obligations and debts taken on by the place known as "The United States of America" would be null and void, since the entity which entered into contract with these obligations and debts wouldn't exist.

And, no longer would the Feds have any sway, influence, or effect on the states.

The problem is, there might be a fight. If a state decides "enough is enough" and they decide to bug out... the feds might come in militarily and we would have a "civil war." (Could it be called a civil war if in fact it's one nation against a new one claiming independent sovereignty?)

The idea comes down to something simple. Do the people have a right to choose? If we secede, it's essentially a statement meant to say "I will choose how to live my life. I will not let it be decided for me." If the government responds with force against this statement, then the government is essentially saying "No, we will decide."

One scenario is clearly an expression of freedom. The other is not.

Im sure that secession from the USA is illegal. If you did secede, it would probably mean war, and the chances of winning seem slim.

Im not sure if you know about Winneconne, Wisconsin. They seceeded when their town was left off the official road map, and began annexing surrounding towns. The governor began negotiations and the Sovereign State of Winneconne was reabsorbed into the state.

Something similar would happen, but if you refuse negotiations they'll order the state defense force to remove the challenge.

Unfortunately, all deeds list land/property to the so called owners as "tenants". All land and property in the United States is subject to the governments whim.

www.Google.com/Dictionary


Main Entry: 1ten·ant
Pronunciation: \ˈte-nənt\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from present participle of tenir to hold
Date: 14th century
1 a : one who holds or possesses real estate or sometimes personal property (as a security) by any kind of right b : one who has the occupation or temporary possession of lands or tenements of another; specifically : one who rents or leases (as a house) from a landlord
2 : occupant, dweller

reply to post by LiveForever8


Welcome to Sealand ....

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/33041bc81608.jpg[/atsimg]

Sealand is a former WWII offshore fort, just over six miles off the English east coast. And it's an independent nation, or micronation. It's just outside British territorial waters. Established in 1968 by Paddy Roy Bates, now known as Prince Roy, a former Major in the British Army. Roy's argument is that Sealand is now a sovereign state under his stewardship and that of his family, that English law no longer applies because it's outside UK waters ... and his contention has been supported by the courts.

He issues his own passports, postage stamps, his "nation" has its own constitution etc.

So, folks, it is possible to make your own nation. You just need to find the right place to do it. Check out his website ...

The Principality of Sealand

Isn't this roughly what the Weaver family tried to do at Ruby Ridge? The Federal authorities certainly didn't take to it too kindly in that instance and it ended very badly.

You can try, but when you don't pay your property tax they will come a knocking. The poster above is right about Ruby Ridge. You can pay those property taxes voluntarily or they will seize your property and auction it off. I would advise against it...it's a losing battle.

Just my 2-cents

Originally posted by Ulala
reply to post by LiveForever8

 

Welcome to Sealand ....

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/33041bc81608.jpg[/atsimg]

Sealand is a former WWII offshore fort, just over six miles off the English east coast. And it's an independent nation, or micronation. It's just outside British territorial waters. Established in 1968 by Paddy Roy Bates, now known as Prince Roy, a former Major in the British Army. Roy's argument is that Sealand is now a sovereign state under his stewardship and that of his family, that English law no longer applies because it's outside UK waters ... and his contention has been supported by the courts.

He issues his own passports, postage stamps, his "nation" has its own constitution etc.

So, folks, it is possible to make your own nation. You just need to find the right place to do it. Check out his website ...

The Principality of Sealand

I want a micronation.

reply to post by Ulala


I've thought about that possibility before. Although I am wayyyy short on the funding. If I could just purchase an uninhabited island...oh, what a life I would live.

Alas, the US would probably invade my sovereign island country and accuse me of developing WMDs.

Ruby Ridge , Waco Texas , ooooh yeah and there was that mining town in the 1800's ... you pretty much just get massacred. Theyll kill you your family and whoever else joined you, then theyll get one of their guys to say you shot first

Originally posted by Phlynx
I want a micronation.

Yeah, its all fun and games until somebody needs a dentist...

On the other hand, I can't help but feel its a really cool idea on many levels. Supporting yourself would be very difficult, however. You'd need to issue currency that would be recognized by other nations, or be able to tap into some resource that you could trade. Or be totally self-sufficient, which is much, much harder than most people realize. Still, I admire Sealand's grit. It's been around since 1967 and still going strong, despite a serious fire sometime in the last few years, if I recall.

The States can secede from the Union. The federal government was put together to make inter state business and governing easier. If every state secedes from the Union....the Federal Government in powerless. The federal military would have no funding and the military isn't big enough to spread across every state of the union. The US military would have trouble just brining Texas back into the Union if it seceded. LOL.

This is all speculation on my part.

Originally posted by wdkirk
The States can secede from the Union. The federal government was put together to make inter state business and governing easier. If every state secedes from the Union....the Federal Government in powerless. The federal military would have no funding and the military isn't big enough to spread across every state of the union. The US military would have trouble just brining Texas back into the Union if it seceded. LOL.

This is all speculation on my part.

Technically, Vermont is the only state with the legal right to secede. Vermont was an independent nation known as the "Vermont Republic" from 1777-1791. It even issued its own sligtly creepy-looking currency.

When it joined the Union, it did so under the express condition that it be given the right to secede at any time in the future, to which the Union agreed. There has always been a tiny Vermont secessionist movement that rears its head from time to time.

Even though its legal right to leave the Union remains on paper, I doubt very much if the US would actually allow it, if it truly attempted to do so...

[edit on 10/29/09 by silent thunder]

reply to post by silent thunder



I did not know that.....pretty cool. I am moving to Vermont.