Is the US technically communist?

Well according to The Communist Manifesto's 10 Planks of Communism we are. I'm just going to go through them and list the similarity to the US


1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rents of land to public purposes.

Well, we call it Imminent Domain and property taxes. How can you own your land if you always have to pay for it? If the government wants your land, they can take it.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

yep.

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

Inheritance and Gift Taxes, not all the way but the idea is still there

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

Criminal property seizure, IRS property seizure etc.

5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

The Federal Reserve.

6. Centralization of the means of communications and transportation in the hands of the State.

FCC, Dept. of Transportation, FAA, BMV, Drivers licenses, etc.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

Government subsidized farms and the Department of Commerce and Labor, Department of Interior, the Environmental Protection Agency, Bureau of Land Management, Bureau of Reclamation, Bureau of Mines, National Park Service

8. Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

Minimum wage. and labor unions

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries, gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of population over the country.

The Planning Reorganization act of 1949 , zoning (Title 17 1910-1990) and Super Corporate Farms, as well as Executive orders 11647, 11731

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.

Yep. Department of Education etc.

Source



So is communism a bad thing? Because that's what we've been told for the past 100 years. The only thing we have that separates us is the illusion of democracy, illusion of free markets, and freedom" of religion.

I once met a man from another country, and he asked what is so great about the US, I said our freedoms. He said that Americans are too distracted by consumerism to see what little freedoms we actually have. In his country there are no birth certificates, drivers license, property taxes, income tax, etc. In fact I never met this man but I imagine thats what he would say.

I think we have just enough freedoms to keep the majority of people from doing anything about it. Take a few more rights away slowly and no one will notice, say it's for the good of the country and thats even better. Get people patriotic about stopping terrorism or criminals etc.

So are we communist? Maybe, but not enough communist to be compared with China or Soviet Russia.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ce6125600b74.jpg[/atsimg]

I pledge allegiance, to the flag of the united socialist states of america, and to the socialism, for which it stands, one nation, under totalitarianism, for an individual, without liberties and oppression for all.

I did a search and nothing came up for this. I guess it's common knowledge here, right?

Originally posted by TheCoffinman

I pledge allegiance, to the flag of the united socialist states of america, and to the socialism, for which it stands, one nation, under totalitarianism, for an individual, without liberties and oppression for all.

Socialism and communism are two very different things. You should... look it up.

Eh, who am I kidding, by remaining ignorant you'll stay in the majority, so do whatever you want.


Anyway, you bring up some good points OP. While I certainly wouldn't go as far as to say the US is Communist, it is definitely a combination of socialism and capitalism. This is not a new thing either, we have been pretty socialized for quite some time now.

However, what's interesting is, you could apply these 10 principles to almost any developed country and get the same answer. So I would assume you could call, at least by Marx's definition, every single developed nation communist.

However, that would be ignoring some of the more distinguishing facets of communism, such as its golden principle (from each to each..) and the fact that the vast majority of developed nations currently employ capitalism in some form.

Originally posted by afterschoolfun
I did a search and nothing came up for this. I guess it's common knowledge here, right?

Yes, I've read the liberty zone article before and agree with all points. If you are interested in hearing more details, check out George Gordon's broadcasts (the george gordon school of law). The guy is prolific and hilarious. His general point is that the 10 planks of the communist manifesto are in direct opposition to the 10 commandment model. He says that while the United States was founded on the 10 commandment model, our various representatives have turned us into a system of law that practices and advocates the 10 planks. Worth a listen!

Originally posted by drwizardphd
However, that would be ignoring some of the more distinguishing facets of communism, such as its golden principle (from each to each..) and the fact that the vast majority of developed nations currently employ capitalism in some form.

What about increased income taxes? The rich pay more % than poor people. And do we? It's more like sudo-capitalism, maybe for the average Joe buying a Xbox360 it is, but the government controls almost every aspect of the economy.

Fine. Whatever, just let the government take over even more, why do I waste time? It's not like we can change anything. If the government wants to do something, there's nothing average people can do, we let it get too big and powerful.

reply to post by drwizardphd


my calling it the united socialist states of america is in reference to the union of soviet socialist republics.... go read a history book

Originally posted by afterschoolfun

Is the US technically communist?

"technically?"

I think "actually" is a better word. About 30 years ago... I had a teacher state point blank that there was very little difference between the governmental structures of the United States and the current standing USSR. The only real difference was in name only.

30 years later... I have to wonder if maybe he was right.

[edit on 28-10-2009 by RoofMonkey]

Originally posted by afterschoolfun

So are we communist? Maybe, but not enough communist to be compared with China or Soviet Russia.

I would say yes. They just call it "consumerist" in America.

It basically comes down to the same thing everywhere. The devils at the top keep the population in virtual slavery while they live it up on the backs of everyone else.

well we (not me) are heading towards this line of buzzard puke... unless people stand and stop it...

reply to post by afterschoolfun


Not at all. No country in the world has truly been a communist state. Communism is the third step of a three step plan – the first step is revolution (to remove the monarchy or government), the second step is the establishment of a ruling proletariat which is called “socialism” (a government of the people). When the socialist government attains its main goal – removal of all private property ownership, the government is meant to step down and the state becomes headless – this is communism. Accordingly, there has never been a true communist state as all socialist states end up retaining their government.

reply to post by afterschoolfun


By your definition, the United states has been communist for nearly a century now because all the above mentioned have been in place under both liberal and conservative presidents.... well actually you made place for every single nation to be communist.

Technically by your suggestion any country that 'taxes' and distributes funds from the public is by all means communist. By your definition any service like the police or fire department are communist. So.... really... give your generalization of the system, anything other than anarchy is... communism!

If thats the case I'll stick with 'communism'.

You met a man from a country where they don't have fees and taxes and liscenses. Do they have roads and bridges in this country? How about running water for everyone, or public sanitation? What kind of police force do they have? Firemen? EMT Rescue? Wildlife Management? Management of Natural resources and Forests? Any stop signs and traffic lights?

My point is this... all of the above have to be paid for. That is why fees and taxes and licenses exist. Now, if you want to be totally free and independent, move up to Alaska and do some homesteading or to the backlands of Brazil and start a farm.

See, all these things which are the bane of so many here, are really necessary to maintain so many of the things we enjoy and take forgranted.

We are not a Communist nation yet. May be pointing in that direction... but not there yet. I do own private property... I pay taxes so I can use the public library, use the Employment Security Commision to help find a job, drive on roads plowed snow free, help secure my home and family. I don't like taxes, I certainly don't like them being wasted. But a certain amount are necessary. As such, some regulation and restrictions are necessary.

You want anarchy, go to some parts of Africa. Want Communism...Cuba and N.Korea are beautiful this time of year.

oppression check..

unfair elections check...

Corruption checked 1 million times....

biased media check...

suppression of freedom of speech.... oh damn check

Oh crap...

Were commies...

Originally posted by ugie1028
oppression check..

How are you oppressed? Because you dont like the policies in government your oppressed? Because you pay taxes your oppressed? I bet my bottom dollar you used the road today.

unfair elections check...

How was it unfair? The majority voted for Obama, the electors voted accordingly in December 15th. How was it unfair? Explain please.

Corruption checked

Corruption while unacceptable in parts of our government is inevitable regardless. It doesnt matter whether you convert the nation to anarchy or communism there will always be corruption somewhere at sometime. It is up to us to hold these people accountable.... changing an entire system to your liking will not however solve the problem.

biased media check...

So the media must agree with your views not to be biased?

suppression of freedom of speech

And yet here you are.

[edit on 4-3-2010 by Southern Guardian]

Originally posted by ugie1028

Oh crap...

Were commies...

Check this out

Did the Communists actually win the cold war?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Just a few questions:

1. Taxation is defined as an imposition of "a financial charge or other levy upon a taxpayer (an individual or legal entity) by a state or the functional equivalent of a state", while rent is defined as "a system of payment for the temporary use of something owned by someone else." How does taxation = rent?

2. A progressive income tax is a taxation system in which those with more disposable income pay more income tax. How does this jell with the numerous tax break for the wealthy and for corporations?

3. Are all inheritances confiscated by the state? Does inheritance exist?

4. Again, is all immigrant property confiscated?

5. How does one reconcile this with the fact that the Federal Reserve is not a Federal Agency, but a private owned consortium of Wall Street banks?

6. Are there any non-state medias in America?

7. Are there any non-nationalized, privately owned industries in the US, or is everything under control of the state?

8. Is this really a problem?

9. Do we have a higher concentration of people in the country or city?

10. What is wrong with no child labor? If one can't afford private school, what should one do to ensure that can get an education? Should trade schools be shut down due to Commie conspiratizing?

True, we have elements of socialism - closer to Democratic Socialism, or a 'Social Democracy' that is currently the sister of Europe, but Capitalism is still the backbone of our society.

Deny ignorance people.

Originally posted by Someone336

... Capitalism is still the backbone of our society.

How can you honestly call a private bank laundering money through a public government to private companies who don't pay income tax a free market system?

Is it capitalism?

Sure it is for the private companies that are receiving the money.

Is it free market captialism?

Don't freakin kid me. It's cronyism and favortism to loyalist party members. It's nothing short of communism.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


so thats what you do here huh? nit pick peoples statements? Well for one with the election was 2004 and 2000. ohio and florida respectively. I believe that the elections were stolen, and where did i mention obama? putting words in my mouth eh?

suppression of free speech. Remember sunstien about 4 weeks ago, infiltrating movements so they cant grow? i would call that infringement on the 1st amendment.

oh there is more too. keep em coming!

EDIT:
Oh and the media, just look at faux news and the others. you know, the ones backed by the military industrial complex? The ones who are selling us the wars their owners profit from?

[edit on 3/5/2010 by ugie1028]

Originally posted by ugie1028
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

so thats what you do here huh? nit pick peoples statements?

If you dont want people to be critical of your claims, dont come on here and make them. This is a forum and people are going to question and debate on your views. You cannot expect to use one liners like 'the elections were stolen' and not be challanged on that accusation.

Well for one with the election was 2004 and 2000. ohio and florida respectively.

As much as I didnt like the guy who won the elections the matter was delt with by the supreme court in 2000 and Bush won the clear majority in 2004. There were close votes but there were no conclusive evidence of anybody committing voter fraud. Now you can personally believe it, it doesnt make it fact.

I believe that the elections were stolen, and where did i mention obama?

You clearly stated the 'elections' were stolen and was not specific about the years you think so. Being that the last elections were in 2008 one would assume thats what you were talking about. Seeing as you said elections, I would assume you were refering to all elections.

suppression of free speech. Remember sunstien about 4 weeks ago, infiltrating movements so they cant grow?

Infiltration? Where did he infiltrate? I dont see how this is a suppression of your freedom of speech. Who is stopping you saying anything? Your making alot of claims on this forum, is anybody stopping you?