Important Information: If you want to start your own website on ATS topics...

I'm so addicted to this site. If I ever messed up bad enough to get banned.
With in five minutes, I would be on my knees begging The Elders and The
Supreme Skeptic Overlord for their mercies upon this lowly peasent
citizen of ATS.
Then if all of my prospects of pleading did not bare fruit. The State would probly come to you guys after a while, recomending that ATS start a rehab for banned members.
This after finding me wondering aimlessly thru the cyber suburbs all destitute with the DDT's. Seriously I would need some Definate
De Talks.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Okay. I understand now (I hope).

Could all this be looked at as "spreading the word"? Any previously hard working members may have just had that in mind when promoting, recruiting, etc. Perhaps their intentions were not to detriment or de-member ATS but to in fact "spread the word" by making more conspiracy sites available to 'seeking to learn' citizens.

Although, I guess there is no way of actually knowing that without asking. Thus, your new system seems better.

Anyway. Flag from me.




[edit on 27-10-2009 by Unlimitedpossibilities]

reply to post by Cuhail


My case in a nutshell! This is an individual with ATS badging as a "subject matter expert" and he is generalizing other posters, about the people who write "long, drawn out posts"(me??) and generalizing what "we" are saying with a "blah blah blah" (me???). That is what people think when they read posts like this.

It is bad business. Individuals labeled ATS should act with more propriety OR face the invisible hand of the marketplace as it affects said corporation. As you've asked other people to "read" before they post, my response is "think" before you post as to how it affects the ATS that you love and support.

Reread yourself.

I can't believe for a second that the people who have written long, drawn out posts in this thread, describing how this is so "wrong" and "Freedom of Speech, blah blah", actually read the OP beginning to end.

I can believe Springer had to come in and make it almost monosyllabic. It's not that tough to understand. I think he used the word "Simple". It was the right word.

Sorry it came to this, Springer. SkepticO. I'm totally behind your keeping your plates, crap-free.

"Read more, post less, people!" (That's what I always want to screm here!)

Cuhail

Now, was he "speaking for ATS"? No, I am sure he was not. However, that is the appearance, and that is the type of chatter I am hearing.

Cuhail, understand that these new crop ups are not the only competition. How about taking the responsibility and honor the labels afford you and do the website a service by choosing your words more carefully? It would help keep people here.

This is not "us" and "them". I'm not against Skeptic Overlord OR ATS. I like him and Springer much better than most of the posters, so I want to be honorable towards them. Also, I like it here. It can be a really fun place. I have many friends here, in fact. I want this site to be better. I have an emotional investment in it. I have reached out to other posters about it. In short, I am not criticizing to harm anyone, I am explaining how this site can be better and stronger once these growing pains are sorted.

As I read the OP I imagined what would happen if say NBC were to broadcast commercials over the top of ABC's programming and start sending private messages to their viewers asking them to watch their programing instead.

It seems there are always a few that don't understand this is a privately owned board and business. I understand fully as a business owner myself. Piracy is by no means limited to the methods you are addressing here. I've had multiple attempts by competitors to obtain my customer lists and employees. I've even had burglaries clearly done to steal customer lists and people work for me who were in fact there to try and steal my staff. I see this as the same thing.

I've also had competitors file false complaints against me in an attempt to drive me out of the market. I see this like the false censorship claims made against ATS. Those who do it know they are in the wrong when they make these claims and their intent is clearly less than honorable. It should occur to them if they have to lie to make a point; they have none.

I was banned once upon a time. I contacted staff, as you said and was allowed back and it was never mentioned again. I thank ATS for that. You even left my U2U account active so I could communicate. I don't know how you could be any fairer than that.

As for me I appreciate your keeping this board going and understand there must have been times where the financial compensation did not even come close to covering the effort it took to build this. I find your rules very liberal and reasonable. In this case you really have no choice but to handle it the way you do. People need to realize they are guests here on a privately owned board.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by lucentenigma
And how would you know this unless you were reading personal u2u's?

We don't look into U2U's unless alerted by a member, and we received two such alerts.

I hope this post is not guilty of excessive quoting. If so, then I've learned something.

SO, if a member contacts another member asking for information about the site we are discussing here and the reason for this thread, and I reply with the information, is that a violation of your terms and conditions? I would like to be in compliance but am having a hard time understanding what is and isn't allowed in private U2U's. It assumed that they were private, am I mistaken?

Originally posted by Springer
It's very easy to gather IP information on our membership by having them join a new site and identify themselves with their ATS user name.

I use my user name and variance of it on numerous sites.
Does this mean I'm in some sort of violation?


[edit on 27-10-2009 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by SLAYER69


No... It means you are susceptible...

reply to post by SLAYER69


Please, think about that for a moment...

What YOU do OFF ATS is your business.

If someone solicits you on ATS it becomes our business to protect your privacy.

We have no interest in and certainly NO control over what you do elsewhere.

Springer...

reply to post by Mirthful Me


'susceptible'...how?

Only ATS has username AND passwords, so are you intonating that ATS mods have/can access off-site accounts by 'trying' the same log-in details?

Surely the passwords are salted MD5 hashes?

reply to post by A Fortiori


I stand by my words, man. I'm not a fan of cutting people down. I am blunt and speak what I mean.
I'm not paid to be here.
I DO have ATS' best interests in mind.
I apologize I'm not up to your standards.

But, the point of my post is that SO stated his (clearly written) position on the original topic (No advertising without permission) and people (you???) replied to things pertaining to themselves, not the OT. I also noticed that Springer came in and made it more simply understood that there will be no advertising on ATS (Without permission) and yet still people only see what they want to see and comment on.

Me? I say "Okay Skep, okay Springer, I understand your position and as long as I want to stay a member of ATS, your site, I will abide by these rules, should they come up."

What's left to say?

Still not paid or recompensated for my position or words,
Cuhail

Originally posted by Blaine91555
As I read the OP I imagined what would happen if say NBC were to broadcast commercials over the top of ABC's programming and start sending private messages to their viewers asking them to watch their programing instead.

That sort of thing happens all the time in a roundabout way...ever watch the tonight show or the late show...these talk shows have guests all the time from competing networks that hawk their shows on the competing network.

I am not going to be so naive as to think there can be a collaborative effort between ATS and competing sites, but perhaps a forum on ATS allowing other sites a snippet on a quid pro quo basis could be in order. I have always enjoyed ATS, and could not think of leaving ( unless I was forced to). I have been to at least one other site recently, and joined, but it had nothing to do with any U2U solicitations...simply put I was wondering why I was no longer seeing posts from two of my favorite contributors, did some digging via an internet search, and found them. As far as the banning goes , well, that aint my beef, and I have no business remarking about it because I do not know all the details...only the parties involved on both sides do, so the beef should remain theirs, and theirs alone.

reply to post by Hazelnut


It's only a violation if you are trying to solicit other members to another website through the U2U's provided by the AboveTopNetwork.

~Keeper

Originally posted by PrisonerOfSociety
reply to post by Mirthful Me

 

'susceptible'...how?

Only ATS has username AND passwords, so are you intonating that ATS mods have/can access off-site accounts by 'trying' the same log-in details?

Surely the passwords are salted MD5 hashes?

You are susceptible by using the same username and the same password everywhere, is what was meant. I assume.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


I'm not going to say much, just stopped by to say that i think it's only fair that poeple do not post links to their sites here or links to other sites which are similar to this one or ones that have just popped up to copy this one.

If people want to invite others to another site then they should do it in an email!

Flagged

Originally posted by Hazelnut
***
I don't need a mommy figure here thank you. I'm a big girl. Please don't insult your members and they will likely continue driving traffic to your advertisements which increase this boards revenue, visibility and perceived stature.

If I am suddenly banned or this post is removed for T&C violations, the proof we all seek will become obvious to even the most unobservant.

I do appreciate your attempt to control the damage that's already been done. There is no point in trying to hide behind pretty words while attempting to moderate public opinion.

***
That may be your stance but from this perspective, it is pure propaganda and a clear (and clever) manipulation of facts in the case you are trying to make.

I have copied this reply and will post it elsewhere should the situation warrant that tactic. The public will judge without manipulation or fear of repercussion.

Wow. Even the most unobservant can see that there's another issue bugging you. Even the most unobservant can tell that this thread is simply a reminder of the Terms and Conditions we all agreed to. If it was up to me i'd ban you for trying to make ATS look like the bad guy. Say what? Who's insulting whom? Yes, even the most unobservant can see through your posts.

Tell me do you try to advertise in your local newspaper without asking them? Or your local tv network? Uhm - duh?

BTW, if you bother to read the T&Cs you'll notice that the same T&Cs go for u2us.

2f.) Private Messages: You will not use the private messaging system (U2U) to send mass messages to multiple member accounts. All private messages are subject to these terms and conditions, violations will result in immediate account termination. You also agree that "U2Us" (Private Messages) are confidential. You will not post or publically display U2Us received from ATS staff or any other members, in any way, without the written permission of the author. The Owners, at their discretion, may review the content of your private (U2U) messages when, and only when, complaints are received from the recipient(s) of your messages.


Which part is unclear?

If ATS is really that bad why don't you join your freinds' site and forget about ATS? Becuase you cant stay away from ATS because in the end its better than any other forum including your friends' board. Right?

just gotta post here

the rules here are simple. that and the topics is why i read the site. they ain't hard to grasp.

biting the hand that feeds you is a dumb thing to do

what happened to respect

forum martyrs to try and gain some kudos and get cheap pull to a wannabe site. sad.

Originally posted by PrisonerOfSociety
reply to post by Mirthful Me

 

'susceptible'...how?

Only ATS has username AND passwords, so are you intonating that ATS mods have/can access off-site accounts by 'trying' the same log-in details?

Surely the passwords are salted MD5 hashes?

That is not a problem, all passwords can bee seen and accessed by site owners, nothing is hidden from the back end of a site, not even your password, therefore, your password here is only meant for here and not for any other place, especially your personal email accounts.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Well thank you tothetenthpower. I appreciate that. I like to live by the rules whenever I can...knowing exactly what they are is most helpful.

I would still like clarification though on whether or not U2U's are private. If not, it is deceptive to allow me to think they are. Which I did assume. Was I wrong?

Edit: And to add for the sake of clarity, is ATS using the word "confidential" interchangeably with "private"?

[edit on 27-10-2009 by Hazelnut]

Originally posted by tristar
That is not a problem, all passwords can bee seen and accessed by site owners, nothing is hidden from the back end of a site

Except that we (ATS) can't see your passwords. Your ATS password is encrypted in our database... so it's not possible for me or us to see what it is. However, many board have the option to leave passwords as plain text, and would be visible by unscrupulous admins.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


SO, I respect what you're saying, and since I've been online now for just over 20 years, since AOL was $3.50 an hour, I can understand, respect, and as well learn the rules of a place I deem as a home.

I can as well understand policy, procedure, and protocol, and that's all I see this as, albeit I am sure that others will both agree and disagree with me, but I have always walked the middle path, understanding as well as listening to what is being said, and keeping myself to myself to the best of my abilities, while sharing information freely, I as well know to play where I want and let each place be a new community to me, and treat them as separate places as homes.

Before I ever discovered ATS, back in the early 90's, the first place I discovered was a message board, albeit it had a low membership due to the Internet being a new experience.

I have used this name, SpartanKingLeonidas, many places before I came to ATS, it is mine.

There are literally millions of message boards out there, my suggestion, to everyone concerned, is to live in each as if it is a welcoming friends home, unless you decide to move in with them, and then it's a whole other ballgame.

[edit on 27-10-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]