Conservative Christians are Hypocrites

reply to post by The Transhumanist




"Conservative Christians are Hypocrites"

= = = = = =

Friend, don't you know you can replace place the OP's first two words with one word.....


that being ...

"ALL" are hypocrites....


That's why we ALL need GRACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OT

Major on the majors friend, you are better than this...

I am gonna have to disagree with you there. There are plenty of people who walk the walk. Gandhi, Jesus, Buddha, Socrates and MLK just to name a few. Granted they are exceptional paradigmatic individuals but it is certainly possible to hold true to your ideals. There are many Christians who seem to hold true to Christian values.

Originally posted by The Transhumanist
I am gonna have to disagree with you there. There are plenty of people who walk the walk. Gandhi, Jesus, Buddha, Socrates and MLK just to name a few. Granted they are exceptional paradigmatic individuals but it is certainly possible to hold true to your ideals. There are many Christians who seem to hold true to Christian values.

Are you speaking (writing) to me?

OT

When I think of the 'Religious Right', I think of The Family, aka: The Fellowship:


link



There are a number of even more interesting vids on youtube if interested.

One of the more outrageous shenanegans of The Family is their involvement in Uganda.

Uganda already punished gay intimacy with life in prison. But, apparently that was not harsh enough, with
this bill penalizing anyone who “attempts to commit the offence” with up to seven years in jail. Additionally, a person charged will be forced to undergo an invasive medical examination to determine their HIV status. If the detainees are found to be HIV+, they may be executed.

This barbaric legislation stifles free speech by threatening anyone who is accused of “promoting” homosexuality with five to seven year prison sentences. Snitching on gay friends and family members is strongly encouraged because “failure to disclose the ‘offence’ within 24 hours of knowledge makes somebody liable to a fine or imprisonment of up to three years.”

Sadly, this witch-hunt has the blood stained fingerprints of leading American evangelicals. The Fellowship, (aka The Family) one of America’s most powerful and secretive fundamentalist organization’s, converted Uganda’s President Yoweri Museveni (pictured top) to its anti-gay brand of Christianity, which is the “intellectual” impetus behind the anti-gay crackdown. The clandestine organization’s leader, Doug Coe, calls Museveni The Fellowship’s “key man” in Africa. Jeff Sharlet, author of “The Family”, writes of the African strongman’s conversion:


www.truthwinsout.org...

The idea, as I see it, is to attempt to further this type of agenda in small countries first, to see how it 'flies' and then, using the successful model, bring it to larger contries.

Educating ourselves on what Doug Coe and many mainstream international politicians are considering is important, not only to gays but ANYONE who does not buy into the extreme fundamentalism that is being promoted.

reply to post by OldThinker


Yes, I was responding to you.

As for "The Fellowship" I have never heard of them before. That is really interesting I will have to do some more research on them. Thanks for the info masqua.

Just to make this clear,when people are speaking about "Fundamentalism",here are the fundamental beliefs of Christianity as I understand them...

1.The virgin birth of Christ.
2.The sinless life of Jesus Christ.
3.The substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ on the cross.
4.The bodily resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ.
5.The bodily return of Jesus Christ.
6.The resurrection of the dead.
7.The teaching of salvation by grace through faith.
8.The full authority of the Holy Scripture in all matters of faith and practice.

The most important aspect to me is the FAITH part. Without FAITH,you can't come to Him "as little children". But people put their faith in Science,because it can be seen and measured. Faith is believing in things unseen. Until someone experiences a true conversion,by grace through faith,I don't expect they could understand how "measurable" the results truly are! If someone is truly "Born Again",it has to show!(They can't help it!)

Originally posted by The Transhumanist
reply to post by OldThinker

 

Yes, I was responding to you.

oh, OK...I see

Does 'walking the walk' equal (=) PERFECTION?

Because that IS the standard, you know?

So doing the math, means anyone falling short is wanting...i.e. hypocritcal.

Right?

Originally posted by The Transhumanist
As for "The Fellowship" I have never heard of them before. That is really interesting I will have to do some more research on them.

I believe the idea is for them to stay comfortably 'under the radar' and thereby be less visible. Working diligently behind the scenes, influencing the influencial, they are the most effective. The less they appear in the public eye, the more power they have.

Originally posted by On the Edge
......

1.The virgin birth of Christ.
2.The sinless life of Jesus Christ.
3.The substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ on the cross.
4.The bodily resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ.
5.The bodily return of Jesus Christ.
6.The resurrection of the dead.
7.The teaching of salvation by grace through faith.
8.The full authority of the Holy Scripture in all matters of faith and practice


......

OT signs up to these 8 now....voluntarily.

All will sign up later...forcefully...sorry

See:
www.biblegateway.com...

Romans 14:11 (New International Version)
11It is written:
" 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.'

SURELY!!!!

OT

Originally posted by The Transhumanist

So to sum it up, here is three questions.

-Do you think Jesus was a liberal?

-If not, can you provide evidence that he was a conservative?

-How do you justify your own wealth or conservative princicples with Christian ideology?

1 and 2: Jesus was neither liberal or conservative, he was a revolutionary against the powers that were.

3: When Jesus said that it would be easier for a camel to walk through the head of a needle than it would be for a person of means to follow him, he meant that it would be extremely difficult for a person of means to try to live their life in a manor which could defy the inclination to subjugate others in order to profit themselves.

This does not mean that a person could not accumulate wealth, but that in doing so you should maintain the fundamental objective of trying to make the world a better place as a result of having lived.

4: Aspiring to a greater purpose, whether or not you fall short, does not invalidate your desire to become a better you and does not make you a hypocrite - it makes you a human being with the desire to be more than what you feel you are.

reply to post by OldThinker


Again, I strongly disagree with you. First of all, is there an objective definition of perfection? Of course not. At least not that you can provide. Go on, give it a shot.

There is however an objective Christian and Buddhist and Muslim definition of perfection. I don't think Jesus was perfect in the general sense because I don't believe perfection in the general sense exists nor do I think that Buddha was a "perfect person" whatever the hell that means. I do think Jesus was a perfect Christian in that he actualized his own ideals fully and that Buddha was a perfect Buddhist because he perfectly followed the eightfold path.

Was MLK a perfect person? No he cheated on his wife for one thing. But did he follow his ideals about civil rights and equality to an absolute T? Of course he did and in that sense, none of the aforementioned people are hypocrites.

Do you consider yourself a hypocrite? Why? Do you not consistently follow your own ideals and manifest them in your actions? If perfection exists I know I am far from it, but nevertheless I practice what I preach.

reply to post by factbeforefiction


I personally don't think that Jesus was apolitical.

Aspiring to a greater purpose, whether or not you fall short, does not invalidate your desire to become a better you and does not make you a hypocrite - it makes you a human being with the desire to be more than what you feel you are.

I never said I think wanting to become a better person makes you a hypocrite if your a Christian. But are you attempting to equate affluence with being a better person? Isn't it possible to improve yourself as a human being without gaining wealth? I was mainly posing this question to the wealthy or conservative Christians who refuse to give a portion of their wealth away. I have nothing against success and neither does Christianity.

Originally posted by The Transhumanist
reply to post by OldThinker

 

Again, I strongly disagree with you. First of all, is there an objective definition of perfection? Of course not. At least not that you can provide. Go on, give it a shot.

There is however an objective Christian and Buddhist and Muslim definition of perfection. I don't think Jesus was perfect in the general sense because I don't believe perfection in the general sense exists nor do I think that Buddha was a "perfect person" whatever the hell that means. I do think Jesus was a perfect Christian in that he actualized his own ideals fully and that Buddha was a perfect Buddhist because he perfectly followed the eightfold path.

Was MLK a perfect person? No he cheated on his wife for one thing. But did he follow his ideals about civil rights and equality to an absolute T? Of course he did and in that sense, none of the aforementioned people are hypocrites.

Do you consider yourself a hypocrite? Why? Do you not consistently follow your own ideals and manifest them in your actions? If perfection exists I know I am far from it, but nevertheless I practice what I preach.

Excellent!

Alright...

You don't run like many...

Good for you friend. Here's the crux of the issue...

Your argument is not with me, its with your creator, sorry.

According to the ole christian Noah...webster, that is...perfection is,

1 : the quality or state of being perfect: as a : freedom from fault or defect : flawlessness b : maturity c : the quality or state of being saintly

2 a : an exemplification of supreme excellence b : an unsurpassable degree of accuracy or excellence

3 : the act or process of perfecting...

= = = =
saintly, freedom from fault, flawless...

NO ONE is that, MLK, you, me, etc...no one.

Why else would JC come? And die? BECAUSE the penalty of sin is death.

He took my place, your too....

The bottom line is "WHOM DO U SAY IAM"?

see: www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by OldThinker


Can you please tell me what "OT" means?

P.S....Nice "signature"!

Originally posted by On the Edge
reply to post by OldThinker

 

Can you please tell me what "OT" means?

P.S....Nice "signature"!

lots of things i guess..

Old Testament...

But in this case Old Thinker

reply to post by The Transhumanist


I doubt that Jesus was apolitical either... after all, he wanted to kick the Roman rulers out of Jerusalem, just for starters.

First of all, I should point out that I belong to no religious 'group'. I don't attend a 'church' and no other living human will ever tell me what to think... period. Evangelical entreaties will never blinker my eyes to one faith alone. I prefer to look at each and every one and then look HARD at myself to see how I personally stack up to the tenets all of them would ask of me.

As far as Christianity is concerned, I was brainwashed in my most formative years (5-7) by the teachings of John Calvin as delivered by my grandfather, both a minister and a missionary. The final result, after years of fire and brimstone pulpit hammering on Sundays and driven home daily with non-relenting sermons at every meal we sat down to, was both a horror at the notion that we are here to suffer and an avid interest in all sorts of spiritual issues that abides with me to this day (almost 60 years later).

It's not religion that fascinates me, but that which is in us to promote the spiritual aspect.

Of all the writings in the bible, there is NOTHING which compares to the Sermon on the Mount. Those words, so seldom discussed, are the very basis of what Christianity should be about, especially the Beatitudes:

Beatitudes

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.

Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.

Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.

Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

www.lifeofchrist.com...

Read them and consider what is being perpetrated in Uganda. Consider the fact that even those who know a gay or lesbian, and fail to turn them in, are liable for a 7 year term in jail.

There is a faction of Christianity which does not mind blood on its hands. They are hypocrites. It's a throwback to the Inquisition, imo.

reply to post by OldThinker


If you are equating objective perfection as flawlessness, then that raises several normative questions such as what constitutes a flaw, and are some flaws excusable such as physical flaws versus character flaws. I don't believe Buddha for example was advocating perfection in the sense of flawlessness, his version of perfection (nirvana) was a state of complete detachment. Was Buddha flawless? No. Did he reach Nirvana? Yes.

A flawed person is not a hypocrite. Only a person who advocates flawlessness is a hypocrite. Buddha merely said to walk the middle path and that is exactly what he did. Flawless? No. Hypocrite? No.

A hypocrite is a person who preaches one thing, and practices another. Therefore there are many hypocrites in the world (perhaps a majority) but certainly not all are hypocrites.

I also don't mean to imply that most Christians are hypocrites. I know a lot of revolutionary Christians who live by their principles and devote their entire lives to altruism. They also happen to be progressive.

reply to post by masqua


I couldn't agree more. Those people are the most obvious of the hypocrites. I think that most conservative Christians are just much more subtle in their hypocrisy.

The quote you provided is an excellent example of what Christians should attempt to stack themselves up to.

reply to post by The Transhumanist


Friend, I've said what I NEED to...I wish you well.

OT, the hypocrite OUT! Good night...

If inclined, pls see: www.campuscrusade.com...

reply to post by The Transhumanist


What really attracted me to your thread was the topic being posted in the Political Ideologies forum.

I immediately thought about the workings of The Family and their involvement with presidents and other influencial people in government. To think that a group like The Family (aka The Fellowship) has worked so industriously behind the scenes puts a lie to the idea that a theocracy in the west is not a possibility.

People will point their fingers at theocracies like Iran or Pakistan with derision and yet ignore that the same thing, perhaps on a lesser scale, is happening within their own borders. The secret government behind the government.