The way

Hy people

Let us speak about the view of spiritual world.

There exist many practices how you can enter that world.
Some know them under the names Shamanism or OOBE´s, all kind of prayings , or whatever you wanna call them.
I want to know if some of you are able to give those ways a direction. What Im going to do is researching the views of people who know what Im talking about.
Here is an example from my view I saw once in such a vision.

"I close my eyes and let the body go away. Shure, always with an eye to myself.. there are some who can steal it. I go down the way through the forest, deeper and deeper down there. To find the door to the other world. And then I can see it, two trees which are the gate. I stop for a second and check out what my body is doing in reality and pass the gate. Peng.. another world. I find myself out there in the space. Infront of a big white temple with long long stairs up there. I think myself "ok, climbing, how fine.." And I begin to climb up those endless stairs. One step after the next. Arround me I can see the stars and the darkness with the lightning inside. Oh, how beautifull is that view. Wouldnt it be better I stop my way up there for a while and delight in the wonderfull view where i can see the stars travel. Nah.. better not. I look up there to the temple and go forward with the climbing, cause Im nosy to see what is up there. And those stars? Ah I saw them until I rode the horse with the wings.. Climb, climb.. endless stairs. Oh, now I can see the door there, and I enter another gate. "pscht.. never tell that somebody ".....
Up there I went as I am. A normal girl into an unreal world.
But after being there, I wear my Armor. And wake up back in my body, in that unreal world.."

Do anybody of you have such experiments?
Let us bring them here together.
And,
Im not talking about the practices, I talk about the ways some of us made in that other world.


Nia Wind

Originally posted by NW111
Hy people

Let us speak about the view of spiritual world.

There exist many practices how you can enter that world.
Some know them under the names Shamanism or OOBE´s, all kind of prayings , or whatever you wanna call them.
I want to know if some of you are able to give those ways a direction. What Im going to do is researching the views of people who know what Im talking about.
Here is an example from my view I saw once in such a vision.

From what I know based on Christianity, once you lose all desire for material things and all worldly concerns for the pursuit of the True Living God of the Universe, your spiritual eyes will be opened.

I grew up in a Catolic family..
Once I had a vision where I was out of my bodie and couldnt go into it again. So I began to pray and it helped. I could feel the Lord was looking down at me, send those angels and blow me back into my body..
But,
my spiritual eye opened ages before..

thx for your reply ahngkk

No other stories in that direction? Come on.. that cant be


NW

Sure I'll respond to this NW111, but it may not be what you are looking for.

From what I understand, and as ahnggk mentions above, we should all begin our spiritual journey by practicing DETACHMENT.

Your mind, spirit and body can become wrapped with energies of the manifested and therefore become a prison of your true Self. If we can free ourselves from this energy then our true Self can come and go at will and use this energy in service to others.

Let me explain, at least as far as I understand it,

Being and Becoming are two modalities. Being is unchanging, whereas becoming is a process of time and space. Man, in his Being is the Self. In his becoming, he is the soul, the reflection of the Self. Mind, spirit, and body are the 'temples of the Lord' which the Self inhabits. Spirit is energy, mind is thought-formation and the body is the form. Self or Being is above and beyond spirit, mind and body.

The destiny of the Self is to be free. Within the limitations of time and space, in its becoming, it is the soul. But the Self is not the soul, the Self is not not energy, the Self is not thought-formation, and the Self is not material activity. The destiny of the Self is to enter and leave these temples at will. The Self is the true and eternal Spark of God deep within everyone of us.

Detachment is the process whereby we ceases to identify with the body, the mind or the spirit. Detachment is the identification with the "watcher" and not the actor. But detachment alone can't take you to where you want to go. Any action you perform should be done according to these three principals: honesty of mind, sincerity of spirit and detachment. Any action performed with dishonesty of mind, or an insincere spirit, or attachment is destructive.

These are, I believe, simple but very effective ways of living our everyday lives as the spiritual beings that we are.

*2nd version, cause I lost my first one..


Hey Neo

Thanks for your reply and the facts you brought in it. I am good into going those ways of Detachment, but its always good to have somebody here who can bring the right information in the thread.


btw.. For me its not simple.. After such experiments I always feel like run over by a horse.


Nia

Knowledge of the holy/divine/enlightenment is understanding. As it is understanding, it is as universal as math and available to anyone who seeks it.

The basis of gaining understanding is to seek. But most people don't understand what it means to seek. To seek means to ask questions, be curious and then find the answers.

I can really only comment on how I came to find these things. And I did that because I could see the evil and manipulation in the world - and I looked for a solution, I asked - how can men live together peacefully.

As I began to work that out, the commandments became clear. Do unto others as you would have them do became a requirement and so forth.

That will show someone the way. Anyone can repeat the commandments, they are written and listed. But the understanding of them must be "heard".

That is the way. Without understanding it properly, people will not keep to it. Usually they will instead find justifications for not doing it - all are guilty of this from time to time - but recognizing it is the first step in fixing it.

To understand the "life", and more importantly, what is life and what is death, one must question the very existence of reality. One must find out what it means "to be". What the difference is between the observer and that which is observed. You must question and find out what "You" truly are, without defining possessions.

The truth is being able to see things based on actions, rather than image and bias. Looking at the fruits and so forth. It too is really understanding, and requires one to really be honest with themselves. If one is not truthful and honest with themselves, they can not find the truth.

That is just how I came across the understanding. These are really the same things Neo above is talking about. One must be able to see the understanding behind the labels and such which are merely used to express the understanding. We each express in our own unique ways.

Jesus is these things because that is what he represents. He gives these things. As he gives these things, he is there by the "light" who leads. In the OT and in Judaism, it's really the same thing, so long as you look beyond tradition. But rather than "Jesus", they are more direct and call these things Wisdom and understanding. Jesus being a manifestation and example of someone who has it, and applies it.

I'm not a christian, nor do I belong to any religion. It wasn't "Jesus" who taught me, but he speaks what I was taught. Giving lip service and praising Jesus while praying on peoples fear is quite different from understanding and following him. But he does tell the truth, and he does have understanding. And for those who can see it, it is surely a light.

Buddha says it by telling you to question everything. Which is good advice.

reply to post by NW111


You're welcome NW111. But you need not fear the horses. This was one of the first great lessons that Hercules learned when he was instructed to Capture the Man-eating Mares. Hercules had to begin his labours by controlling his thoughts. "For ages the brood mares of thought had been breeding war horses and, through wrong thought, wrong speech and erroneous ideas, had been devastating the countryside. One of the first lessons that every beginner has to learn is the tremendous power that he mentally wields, and the amount of harm that he can cause in his neighborhood and environment through the brood mares of his mind. He has, therefore, to learn the right use of his mind, and the first thing that he has to do is capture this feminine aspect of the mind and see to it that no more war horses are bred.".

Detachment is the first place to start when learning to control the mind. It's an old concept and one that the Buddha most definitely understood when he announced the Four Basic Truths:

1. Life means suffering.

2. The origin of suffering is attachment.

3. The cessation of suffering is attainable.

4. There is a path to the cessation of suffering.

His description of the Path, the way out of suffering comes in the form of an eight fold path but these can be basically summed up with the practice of honesty and sincerity.

You are right, however, it doesn't come easy sometimes, but living your life, in everything you do, with honesty, sincerity and detachment can sometimes be the only and the best path to take. It doesn't take any special belief or religion or political or philosophical education to do so. It's one the most simplest but effective mechanisms for growth that we've been given.

Take sincerity, for instance, and consider the expression we have when we have a "heart-to-heart" with someone. What does this mean? It means you express yourself as you really are. Your true self and not some facade that you use with the general public. This is your centre talking. When you have a heart-to-heart your are being your true and inner self.

Or take honesty of mind, as another of the golden rules to follow. How many people think one thing, say another thing and do something completely different? This can only lead to being lost. Honesty of mind leads to honest speech and honest action. This can only lead to peace and happiness.

Life is suffering if we attach ourselves even to our beliefs or ideologies. There is a story of a great swami named Mahavira, a contemporary of the Buddha, who became a monk and experienced a sense of detachment to such a degree that he even discarded his clothes and walked naked. His disciples, in following their master, also discarded their clothes, even though they never experienced the same sense of detachment that their master did. Why? Mahavira's spiritual journey didn't end there, even after his death. Following leaders blindly when there is no experience or discovery becomes another type of bondage, without growth of the real Self within.

Detachment is a hard pill to swallow and usually involves the humbling of oneself, the giving up of one's beliefs, one after another, in the pursuit of the true Self within. Nothing is eternal except the Self.

Religions, for instance, are the source of much of the suffering in the world. Where they should be teaching salvation and enlightenment they are creating "pockets of imprisonment". Whenever one says "I am right and you are wrong" one is creating separation and isolation. When you are detached in mind, spirit and body, however, then whatever happens around you can't harm you. You are immuned to the three worlds. Preaching to people doesn't work. If I were to lecture to a thief saying that "thou shall not steal" they would probably pass me off as ideological. But to tell the thief that whatever they do they should do with honesty of mind, sincerity of spirit and detachment just might give them enough insight into their true selves that they may begin to free themselves from the prison of conditioning.

This is what we should be teaching our children. Instead of how to be a commercial success we should be focussing on the relationship between the Self and the mind, the spirit and the body.

"Innocence is nothing but the fertile ground for mind, spirit and body to remain detached."

Cheers.











[edit: replaced "peach happiness" with "peace and happiness"]


[edit on 31-10-2009 by Neo__]

Originally posted by badmedia Giving lip service and praising Jesus while praying on peoples fear is quite different from understanding and following him.

Yes, exactly. "Truth lies within yourself. There is a higher power and strength and wisdom in yourself. Turn inwards and there evoke the strength which is, the power which is the heritage of all the sons of men who are the sons of God."

[edit on 31-10-2009 by Neo__]

Thanks for your replies guys

I enjoy your posts, they include many informations. But I guess you misunderstood me again..
In that thread Im not looking for informations or lessons about the soul, the spirit and the body or any believingsystems..

I would like to hear your stories.
Which practise do you use, to come in the other world? (as example: meditation..)
What you see and realize when you are there?
Which are the ways you follow there?

See?

Neo,.. lol Im not really scared by horses.. I rode and trained them all my life
Interesting that you brought the heart to heart thing into. I will tell you a little secret: Up there, or in there, however you want to see it (shure, also in the "normal" day) I am always searching for my second heart. In the other world I find it easy, but in the normal life its much harder..

Badmedia, ..Jesus is a way, for shure and I believe that Jesus and Buddha might be the same person (only a thought of mine..).


Nia

reply to post by NW111


No, I didn't think you were really afraid of horses. In the case of the Herculean task, they are simply metaphors for our thoughts, which, when not controlled, can trample us into suffering.

As for stories or practices that I use to 'come into the other world', we'll I have to admit I don't really have anecdotes or special mediations that I use to approach these worlds. Except for, of course, the employment of detachment, honesty and sincerity that I've noted above. They keep me on the straight and narrow, moving forward towards the same goal. But there's no quick magic or meditation that I can use to vision the other world, except for, of course, my reading and pondering on the 'occult' or hidden secrets that's been published by some of the great Masters of Wisdom both lately and in our history books. Yet this wisdom still, however, is but a sign posts on the road. To truly understand it I have to experience it and not just read about it.

P.S. I don't believe that the Christ and the Buddha were the person. I believe they were two of the most outstanding figures in our history, representing and embodying, respectively, the two great forces of Love and Wisdom.

Cheers.

I should add there is a mediation that has been given out in regards to the above teaching about the relationship between Self and spirit, mind and body. It's a prayer that was given out by Maitreya, the world Teacher, in the early 1990's during a series of teaching sessions before a group of swamis in India.

In a addition to the teachings regarding Being and the becoming of spirit, mind and body, this prayer was given to us as a great mantram for our modern times and can have a most invocative effect if used correctly. Use of this prayer can "enable one to recognize that man and God are one, and that there is no separation.

A Prayer for the New Age

I am the creator of the universe.
I am the father and mother of the universe.
Everything comes from me.
Everything shall return to me.
Mind, spirit and body are my temples,
for the Self to realize in them
My supreme Being and becoming.

"The most effective way to use this mantram is to say or think the words with focused will, the attention at the ajna center between the eyebrows. When the mind grasps the meaning of the concept and, simultaneously, the will is brought to bear, then those concepts will be activated and the mantram will work. If it is said seriously every day, there will grown inside you a realization of your true Self", says Benjamin Creme.

I said above that there was "no quick medition that I can to vision the other world". Perhaps I was wrong. I had forgotten about this prayer and should be using it myself. Thanks for the reminder.

-Neo.

Originally posted by NW111
Which practice do you use, to come in the other world? (as example: meditation..)
What you see and realize when you are there?
Which are the ways you follow there?

Ok, I'll try to answer a direct question. I've eluded to some practices of "pondering" and how I attempt to view the world as something other than my mind, spirit and body, plus I suggested a mediation that I myself should use more often, but what do I see and realize when I'm there?

The flashes of intuition I see at times is one of wheels within wheels, units of life within larger units of life. I see myself standing on this Earth alone as an individual but simultaneously also as an observer, outside of myself. This puts me into a kind of awareness of being part and parcel of the same whole. Kind of like how we physically and individually have our social circles in our daily lives but we are also at the same time travelling, all of us good and bad, from west to east as the Earth rotates on axis. And so if we are truly within "Him whom we live and move and have our Being", the perhaps that 'Him' is also living and moving having His Being with something even larger. It makes me think of the words of Christ when He said "In my Fathers house there are many mansions".

It's difficult to understand exactly "where" some of these visions take place. Although they still involve the physical universe, its like seeing everything as new again. Kind of like seeing "in and behind" the outer and physical universe. It's like seeing or maybe more accurately sensing life in everything. Not just in the animals and the plants but in the rocks and the planets and the stars also. All of them possessing a "being" or a "life" in our Universe. It's a comforting feeling to some extent to perceive we are not alone and that we exist as one, but this also means that even the lowest of life is what we are.

Anyways, I gone on long enough in your thread. And if I still don't get the "gist" of your post then I apologize.

reply to post by Neo__


I agree with you Neo except I never use the word "he" or "father"
May I add that when we strive to achieve conscious understanding, we are infact just replicating our creational purpose/equations/chaos.

OK I'm no Bible gal, But I do want to discuss this a little more.
The many mansions JC saying, I think reflects his understanding of the fractal nature of the universe. And the parable of the mustard seed is quantum phsyics in basic peasant language form.

To live is the only function required of us, as we are answering for an awareness. So the everyday living part (like a tree does) without the higher forms of meditation to gain awareness, are just as valid, as we are fulfiilling our function as answers.

Be still and know that I am God (Psalm 46:10)
My take on that saying is to fulfil the wonder of our lives. That our purpose is simple and required, simply 'living' being a requirement of collective creational source. When we start the "conscious awarness" path in life, we are melding the chaotic Big BANG (or big quesiton..."what am i?, What is all this?") with the questions' outcome; existence (life). Therefore we are just propogating the same thing over and over again. IE a answer is becoming a question......

Propogating Infinity:
Order/Chaos
Physical life/Mind
Answering/Questioning

symmetry

Sorry if I've ranted NW111 my little Adleweiss



[edit on 1-11-2009 by zazzafrazz]

Hy guys

Neo..
You found the gists perfectly Shure, after 2 other posts.. but you found the gist
That you came up with wheels is really interesting. In my opinion those wheels exist realy. 90% of the people out there run into them..
The point is, when you enter the other world, you can see them, cause you re out of the circle they build.

I can tell you a story about something like that:

It was night, I went to bed and lay down completly tired and worked out. I closed my eyes and began to relax. Then something strange happened, I felt like falling down, but it wasnt strange and I liked that feeling. I fell down, deeper and deeper but not into sleeping, nah..
At that moment I felt completly awake and I opened my eyes.. but didnt saw the bedroom.
I was in the universe, somewhere high up. All those wonderfull stars, and the big sun and etc.. etc.. And then? Then I saw the earth, this little beautifull thing in the huge universe.
And I began to fall again, but not deeper into somewhere. I fell back to the beginning of time. Everything arround stopped to be and my soul began to feel everything what exist.
Then I understand.
Simple understand.
The meaning of the "making off". The atoms, circle arround and inside. I understand the words "Everything is nothing and nothing is everything"...

Its hard to keep such experiments into words..I try to explain it clearly..

There exist many methods and practises to enter that world, you can read them into the old books and also into the web. The point is, that sometimes you need such a method. You only fall into something different.


Nia

..zazz
and Jesus said: "The kingdom of heaven is in and all arround us.."

reply to post by NW111


Sounds like a classic out of body experience. Your feeling of falling back to the beginning of time must be how it feels when one approaches the soul, since the latter is said not to experience time or space the way us "short-timers" do. (Short-timers is from a Stephen King book I just read. It seems such an adequate description of us, 'beings with physical bodies').

Anyways, I still don't think that I really missed the "gist" of this thread with my other posts. It's more a matter of perspective. Living one's life with honest of mind, sincerity of spirit and detachment may not result in an immediate out of body experience or a psychic experience of the other worlds, but in the long run it will result in the same thing. Living life with this approach is more in line, I believe, with what most religions refer to as the "way" or the "path" back to God. And this what I had in mind when I read the subject line of this thread.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I've never experience anything like yours while being conscious, but I've had some pretty wild and very lucid dreams that it seems I'll remember for the rest of my life. Dreams of soaring over my house, or in one particular dream, of rising upwards into the sky and through space towards the Dumbbell Nebula and actually yelling because the sound of it was so deafening. I'm usually with someone else in my dreams. One that is right beside me but I never seem to actually to turn my face to him, or her, or it. In fact, in most of my dreams I don't seem to facing any particular direction, I seem to be seeing, or experiencing my surroundings from all directions at once. It's like having eyes in the back of my head.

Cheers for now.





[edit on 3-11-2009 by Neo__]

reply to post by Neo__


You tried to missunderstood me
Thank you very very much for all your posts. There are great and this thread wouldnt be alive without them.

Im only a little be kidding right now, cause you say ,,nah, I never had such experiments..,,
and in the next line you show me the Dumbbell Nebula ?
guess you know exactly what Im talking about--


Nia

[edit on 3-11-2009 by NW111]

Originally posted by NW111
reply to post by Neo__

 

You tried to missunderstood me

Thank you very very much for all your posts. There are great and this thread wouldnt be alive without them.

Im only a little be kidding right now, cause you say ,,nah, I never had such experiments..,,
and in the next line you show me the Dumbbell Nebula ?
guess you know exactly what Im talking about--

Nia

[edit on 3-11-2009 by NW111]

Yea but those were dreams, not "conscious" experiences. Some people can experience stuff like that while fully aware and not asleep. I did experience some pretty strange things in my life ...but... well.. that was the 70's and most of us experimented then.

reply to post by Neo__


I wasnt borned in the 70´s

Would you believe that its possible to have such experiments until you sleep but be full awake at the same time?
Its like you live two lifes. In one you fall asleep in the other you wake up. But remember both..

Originally posted by NW111
reply to post by Neo__

 

Would you believe that its possible to have such experiments until you sleep but be full awake at the same time?
Its like you live two lifes. In one you fall asleep in the other you wake up. But remember both..

That's exactly what it's like Nia. For the truly evolved there is no sleep. If you can control and hang on to your daily awareness while you are sleeping then you'll find that there's much to do. During sleep you simply pass from one state of awareness to another. A true Arhat never sleeps.

And death is the same thing. Most of us know what death is like because we enter that world every night. "I die nightly" says St. Paul. For some, the least evolved, death is simply a deep sleep. They didn't have much awareness while they were alive and so they don't have much while they're supposingly dead. For others, the vast majority of us, death is a continuance of daily life but on the more subtler planes. The higher emotional (astral), mental and spiritual planes are just as real there as the physical plane is to us.

Originally posted by NW111
Thanks for your replies guys

I enjoy your posts, they include many informations. But I guess you misunderstood me again..
In that thread Im not looking for informations or lessons about the soul, the spirit and the body or any believingsystems..

I would like to hear your stories.
Which practise do you use, to come in the other world? (as example: meditation..)
What you see and realize when you are there?
Which are the ways you follow there?

Badmedia, ..Jesus is a way, for shure

and I believe that Jesus and Buddha might be the same person (only a thought of mine..).

Nia

There is no other world for me in general. I guess in a way I see beyond that, and so they don't interest me that much. When I go to sleep, I go to sleep. However, sometimes I do get things in dreams, but it's usually only when something has me stumped and I'm spending alot of time in the day thinking on it. I sometimes get solutions to problems I'm having at work handed to me, and also more philosophical questions.

In general, I'm giving anything I ask for as far as understanding. And in that state, the general problem is finding the right questions. The true measure of knowledge isn't based on what a person knows, but on what questions the person has. Because the questions a person asks includes not only what they know, but also the ability to start to see the next step into what they do not know.

So I guess you could say I get what I need when I need it. I don't spend anytime in other worlds or anything like that in general.

When I had my vision, I was awake. And that was different. In that experience, my consciousness was pulled from my body and so forth, but there was no feeling to it happening, because it happened in an instant. No journey, just instantly I was seeing into another place. But it wasn't another world, the best description I could give was like being in the matrix loading room. It was nothing but white, no edges, no end, just white for ever. And even though it was plain white and one might think it was the brighest thing, the being in front of me was like it was made out of the sun(not really, but that is the best I can say to describe it). I was asked a single question, I answered it, and then I was back in my body(after a short little view of me the next day).

And that was it. It all happened within a blink of an eye on earth, literally. But then time is merely an illusion. After that I suddenly knew alot of things, and suddenly had understanding of things. It was followed by about little over a month of gaining understanding and so forth.

When my perception changed, it wasn't in terms of worlds opening up. But rather it changed in how I seen this world and so forth. What I see with my eyes, that has not changed. But how I understand what I see with my eyes - that is much different.

All worlds, this one and any in your mind or astral projections or whatever etc, they are all just variables. It's all variables. I kind of see on the level that brings such things forth. I best can explain this with math.

On the surface of math, you have the variables. A+B=C. Now, that can be expressed in many ways. 1+1=2, 1+4=5, 89+9 = 98. An infinite amount of possibilities. But while each of those variables have unique values and so forth, they each share the same basic understanding(A+B=C).

To me, other worlds and such are just a 1+2=3 and this world is a 1+1=2. And so it doesn't interest me much. But what does interest me is the A+B=C, or the understanding behind all things. What interests me is the nature of consciousness(observer) and that which is being observed(reality). There is no reality without something to observe it, and so forth.

So if you are asking for the "way" to astral project and such, I can't help you. I thought you were asking for the "way" to understanding.