NTSB: Cockpit recorder might not contain airliner's 'silent hour'

NTSB: Cockpit recorder might not contain airliner's 'silent hour'

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The cockpit voice recorder from Northwest Flight 188, which flew past the Minneapolis airport during a mysterious 78 minutes of radio silence Wednesday night, was capable of recording only 30 minutes of audio, federal accident investigators said Friday.

Authorities are reviewing the plane's cockpit voice recorder as well as its flight data recorder. It was in the air for another 45 minutes after radio contact was restored, meaning that if the recorder was working properly anything the pilots would have said during the time they were not answering radio calls would have been recorded over.

But a former accident investigator told CNN the voice recorder may still prove valuable, because the pilots could have discussed the earlier events on the way back to Minneapolis.

The Airbus A320, carrying 147 passengers and an unknown number of crew members, was flying at 37,000 feet, according to the National Transportation Safety Board.

The NTSB said the pilots of the plane did not respond to air traffic control beginning about 7:56 p.m. Eastern Time as the plane was in the Denver region, and re-established radio contact about one hour and 18 minutes later, when they had flown 150 miles past their destination.

The pilot told controllers he had been distracted. When air traffic controllers finally made contact with the pilot, his answers were so vague that controllers feared the plane might have been hijacked, according to a source familiar with the incident.

Link to full article:
www.cnn.com

[edit on 23-10-2009 by GideonHM]

reply to post by GideonHM


Hello all,

I was scanning CNN.com as I usually do, and I found that although this somewhat unusual incident may most likely have a perfectly rational explanation, there have been unusual experiences by pilots in the past that also involve missing time, disorientation, etc. that I think deserves a second look.

Any ideas as to why this could have happened, and if so what do you think will come of this?

Thanks!

What? 30 minutes of audio? How outdated are those devices? There's tiny little nand flash cards I can load with a dozen or more hours of lossless CD-quality audio. So, all solid-state and thus shock-resistant, no spinning platters or other mechanics are needed.

I read the article that the pilots and crew said to the NTSB "The crew stated they were in a heated discussion over airline policy and they lost situational awareness,". This is a flat out lie, and they know it. I don't believe it was an argument. The only good explanation which they said has happened before a number of times is that the cockpit crew where asleep. They where asleep and they couldn't say that they where asleep, so they made up a story in order to keep their jobs.


blogs.abcnews.com...#

www.timesonline.co.uk...#

reply to post by EnlightenUp


Yeah, and they are outdated enough to justify their explanations. Where is the audio? Uhhh.... It... copied over itself! I would figure tampering with the device is out. Don't they need specialized, rather large, immobile equipment to retrieve the audio?

If they did something they didn't want revealed, I doubt the black box would short out, and it should function throughout the flight, from my presumption of how a solid state recorder works at least.

reply to post by hoghead cheese


That is pretty crazy though. Both pilots asleep, and they are able to tamper with the box? There would have had to be some sort of tampering so they could cover their behinds in this case.

I am going to see what I can find on black boxes. It should be interesting.

[edit on 23-10-2009 by GideonHM]

Here we go! I think this illustrates the difficulty in any tampering, without help that is.





www.madehow.com

[edit on 23-10-2009 by GideonHM]

Originally posted by GideonHM
reply to post by EnlightenUp

 

Yeah, and they are outdated enough to justify their explanations. Where is the audio? Uhhh.... It... copied over itself! I would figure tampering with the device is out. Don't they need specialized, rather large, immobile equipment to retrieve the audio?

Honestly I can't answer that but that seems so very 1970's or something. I would think a laptop would suffice once the ports are exposed or the memory chips can be removed. How could that require any bulky electronics? Using compressed audio you could record dozens and dozens of hours even at high quality.

They can't possibly still be using analogue recording for the voice?!?

If they did something they didn't want revealed, I doubt the black box would short out, and it should function throughout the flight, from my presumption of how a solid state recorder works at least.

Recording flight data shouldn't take very much bandwidth. Only the voice recorder appears to be the issue here.

Some aspects of these boxes just really seem to be lagging behind cheap digital audio players with recording functionality.

its no secret among pilots that they execute their ascension and nap.
That these guys were caught is just a mathematic probability.

lol they apparently "woke up"in WI. I wake up in WI everyday, @ ground level, not 38000ft.

reply to post by hoghead cheese


That was my first thoughts also, but if it was on autopilot wouldn't some kind of alarm sound when they passed their destination Or does it not work that way ?

Originally posted by hoghead cheese
I read the article that the pilots and crew said to the NTSB "The crew stated they were in a heated discussion over airline policy and they lost situational awareness,". This is a flat out lie, and they know it. I don't believe it was an argument. The only good explanation which they said has happened before a number of times is that the cockpit crew where asleep. They where asleep and they couldn't say that they where asleep, so they made up a story in order to keep their jobs.


blogs.abcnews.com...#

www.timesonline.co.uk...#

The pilot and copilot were probably woken up by the flight
attendant knocking on the door. "Shouldn't we have landed
by now?!"

The exact same thing happened last year in Hawaii, a plane overshot the airport by 100 miles or so, then had to turn around and land - all because the pilots were asleep. IIRC, both pilots were out of a job soon afterward.

Here's an article on the Hawaii incident:

(AP) The National Transportation Safety Board has confirmed an initial finding that the captain and first officer of a flight that overflew its destination in Hawaii inadvertently fell asleep while the plane was on autopilot.

www.cbsnews.com...

reply to post by bagari


Yeah, this certainly shows precedent for a pilot and copilot to zonk out. Just, even still it is really unusual for both of them to fall asleep at the same time.

Must be that one let the other nap and number two then followed suit?
This is going to leave a bad taste in my mouth no matter how I look at this.

I keep wanting to say depressurization may be the cause. If you lose oxygen slowly you could pass out, and only wake up upon the door being opened. With all the collective problems with the airlines these days, I wouldn't be surprised.

reply to post by GideonHM


The CVR can be erased from the cockpit but only when the aircraft is on the ground as I was told by a very qualified pilot. Of course it is possible to 'fake' those indications (of being stationary on the ground) as far as the CVR logic is concerned from the cockpit during flight, not that any pilot would ever actually want to do that or would they?

Who knows




[edit on 24/10/2009 by Pilgrum]

They were abducted for an hour and are trying to cover the situation.

No seriously, OF COURSE they were asleep. Others working on the plane heard no noises coming from the cabin and even tried to pound on the door to talk to them.

reply to post by Bad Dog


Maybe my faith in their supposed piloting skills is higher than yours, but this quote from the article points to an FAA hand in this.

www.cnn.com

"My real question is why we did not know of the 'radio out' situation from the FAA sooner," the officials said. "The FAA is also looking into that," the official told CNN.

Sure, I completely agree with you on that there is not a shred of evidence that illustrates odd happenings outside the realm of human error, tech error, etc. Yet, the FAA's reaction smells fishy to me, in that they should have simply taken better care of the situation.

I saw a glimpse of the live CNN report on TV with an angry man saying there is no way they both could have fallen asleep, with the system that give a warning alarm, the fact there are two pilots, and the rest of the crew.

I have noticed that clique behaviors in the professional world are on the rise.
A person from the FAA might have tried to cut them some slack perhaps?








[edit on 24-10-2009 by GideonHM]

reply to post by Pilgrum


I want to hear from the crew, I will look into this.
Something is amiss.

reply to post by GideonHM


Just give them a lie detector test. When they fail then that will be the end of it.
They both fell asleep.

Maybe this was just a secret exercise between the military and the airlines. Jets were scrambled but never left the ground. You think the FAA reaction is odd (though I don't understand about that). Behavior seems cliquey to you. Etc.