Dallas police chief says officers have written dozens of tickets to people for not speaking English

reply to post by projectvxn


Your right regarding the illegal issue. But, due process for a traffic ticket? Maybe I should reevalulate my thinking....the next ticket I get, I'll take it all the way to the Supreme Court.

reply to post by sos37


Wow SOS, never thought I would agree with you but I do.

Seriously, all of our road signs are in English, if you can't read the road signs you shouldn't be driving, you are a hazard..

Then why do voter forms come in at least 4 languages? If knowing English is not a prerequisite to vote then it should not be when it comes to ticketing. Communication is a two way street.

Seriously, all of our road signs are in English, if you can't read the road signs you shouldn't be driving, you are a hazard..

Road signs are symbols. I also think that the dept. of Motor Vehicle will give the test in Spanish. So you do not have to speak English, if you understand the symbols.


[edit on 25-10-2009 by Siren]

Originally posted by dgtempe
Ignorance is a terrible thing...

All first generation immigrants who ever step foot in this country, had a language problem, in fact, outside of a little broken English, they did not speak the language.

Second generation immigrants had a chance to learn when they were young and they could absorb it from school, etc.

Third generation descendants are often confused as "Americans" because they speak and go about their lives speaking it perfectly.

The moral of this story is: THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA CONSISTS OF THESE THREE TYPES OF PEOPLE ONLY.

There aint no one else.

Absolute nonsense! This only holds true for uneducated Mexicans who come here illegally or people that come off a boat from Cuba or in a Cargo container from China or as whores and slaves from Eastern Europe.

Most of people who come to this country "LEGALLY" by working with an embassy and getting employment in this country know English fluently.

My own family immigrated from Europe in the late 19the century and they were absolutely fluent in English.

There are thousands immigrants even today who come in as doctors, engineers, businessmen etc who are all perfectly fluent in English assimilate readily.

The myth that the first generation immigrant is too stupid to learn English is illogical and is only peddled by those who want to encourage more LATIN illegals into this country. English is apparently not a problem for even the Chinese immigrants but apparently LATIN America is too stupid to learn the most widelyspoken language in the world!

No consulate around the world would allow anybody to immigrate to America without fluency in English, especially if they are the first generation to come here. I can understand the elderly being unable to learn a new language but it is inexcusable for the rest.

reply to post by badgerprints


I was watching a show on the life of Latin Americans. They were showing a daughter who was workign hard to graduate high school, but she was often pulled from class to help her mother go to doctors appointments and translate or translate for something else. The daughter was born her. But what stunned me is that the mother herself came here at 15. So she has been here 15 years. So they came here for a better life, yet her daughter failed highschool because she always had to leave to translate for her mother or watch the younger children. Made absolutely no sense whatsever. And my thought was: in 15 years you can't pick up English?

reply to post by ufoptics


The law requires due process in any case where an officer duly appointed and under oath issues a charge, or imposes a fine:

The 4th Amendment:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

The 8th Amendment:
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

And the 5th Amendment:
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

The fact that these tickets were issued by an officer/officers of the peace, under Oath, without following due process, is a flagrant violation of the Constitution's Due Process clause, and the violation of the Bill of Rights.

reply to post by IAF101

Most of people who come to this country "LEGALLY" by working with an embassy and getting employment in this country know English fluently.

This is just not true. In New York there are areas where the signs for the stores, cleaners, etc. are all in Korean and they have some areas where the signs are all in Chinese. They are legal, they work, have stores and it reflects their language. Some of them do not read or speak English which is why they ask what number on the menu do you want.

Originally posted by Siren
reply to post by IAF101

 

Most of people who come to this country "LEGALLY" by working with an embassy and getting employment in this country know English fluently.

This is just not true. In New York there are areas where the signs for the stores, cleaners, etc. are all in Korean and they have some areas where the signs are all in Chinese. They are legal, they work, have stores and it reflects their language. Some of them do not read or speak English which is why they ask what number on the menu do you want.

I live in Manhattan and I've seen Deli's with Hebrew on them too. Are you saying that these people only serve their customers in Hebrew ?

The Korean laundry and the Chinese places all speak English otherwise they would die out without catering to Americans--whatever language their sign maybe! Hell, my local deli is run a Yemeni immigrant with and he speaks English fluently, he also speaks Spanish-- both languages he learnt in America! But apparently, the Spanish speakers are the only ones who cant bother to learn English!

The least that they deserve are tickets!

reply to post by projectvxn


Maybe the officer should have looked more closely into the license of the people in question that received a ticket. If he verified they had a legit license then yes he may very well have violated the constitution. However, on the other hand, if they found out they were illegal immigrants, then the subjects in question have no rights whatsoever under our constitution and bill of rights and should have been detained immediately and sent for deportation. In my opinion, they got off easy.

I am moving to Amsterdam tomorrow. In order to become a Dutch citizen, I will have to learn to read, speak and write the native tongue. I have 5 years to do it. For me thats a small price to pay to live in a free, civilized country. But I don't expect to be ticketed for not knowing the language.

National Language Of India, Official Language Of India, Regional ... The official language of India shall be Hindi in Devanagari script. ... the English language shall continue to be used for all the official purposes of the ... www.iloveindia.com/constitution-of-india/languages.html - Cached - Similar -

Police is official purposes.
British know how to rule.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Funny (not) that you should say that.
Why in the world should a citizen Have to learn another language?
They should not, no matter how easy the language.

People driving need to learn the language of the country in which they drive ...
They were breaking the law or wouldn't have got pulled over in the first place and luckey no one (in these cases at least) was injured.

It isn't safe to be driving around and not be able to read the signs! Common sence tells ya that.

Were they even licenced with insurance?
How many were here illegaly? Did they get deported?
A few non pc but important unanswered questions here.

i agree that if a person was not driving a commercial vehicle, these tickets are unjust and will be thrown out. the officers gave the ticket bc, since these drivers would not speak english, it is a natural thought process to think they will just pay the ticket, or not pay it, let the fees rack up, and bingo, more money for the county.

now on to the topic that this has turned into...

i worked at a church for four years. we had a strong hispanic community.
every damn night i worked, i had between 5 to 10 phone calls IN SPANISH, and an additional 5 to 10 who came in, and looked at me like i was retarded for not knowing what they were saying.

now am i wrong to think that they should walk into an office, see a WHITE DUDE and expect them to know there is a slim chance that i actually speak spanish fluid enough for them to start rambling on?

my boss (the pastor) there even tried to imply that if i didnt learn spanish, i would be fired. i quickly informed him that that was kinda illegal, and that i wasn't the one going into their place of business and expecting them to speak english. also, that until he learned spanish first, he could forget about me learning it.

flash forward 6 years, i now work at a cab company as a dispatcher. i get people call in and start speaking spanish right off the bat. am i the only one that finds this retarded?

i went to italy in 8TH GRADE for less than a week and learned enough italian so i can get around day to day, if i got lost find my way to an embassy, order food, find a bathroom, and pretty much all the essentials. and this was while i a) had my own studies i had to take care of and b)knew in advanced that i would have a translator with me 24/7 not to mention a teacher who knew spanish to.

my point here...i would not dream of walking into a store in mexico and expecting them to know english. from my experience in italy, once they saw i tried to speak their language, they met me half way, and these were off the beaten path shops and restaurants, so not places that were used to tourists. much the way i acted when spanish speakers came into or called the church office and attempted english.

reply to post by projectvxn


So what's the solution here? Anyone a cop pulls over that indicates that they can't speak English should what - just be let go? Especially if no other officers that speak the language are available? Simply because they don't know what they're being written up for?

How about this for a solution? With each of these tickets the offenders also get a sheet of paper that has printed, in several different languages, the following: "You are receiving this ticket/fine because you indicated that you were unable to answer the questions of an officer of the law in American English."

Sounds reasonable, right? They get their ticket, due process is satisfied and everyone is happy.

reply to post by sos37


the solution is a) the officers understand what the law states as far as writing a ticket to a non english speaker.

and b) people who live here learn how to communicate in english enough to avoid misunderstandings like these.

reply to post by sos37


You cannot arrest or fine someone for not speakig English unless they are a commercial driver. What you can do is call for an interpreter or train police in the language they are most likely to encounter. There are no laws on the books that say you must speak English and there will likely not be in the near future as it would be a violation of free speech.

reply to post by bigshow


There was no indication that they were illegal. That said, had there been a determination that they were in the country illegally all the officer can do is notify ICE.

I don't know if those given the tickets were legal or not. Think about this for a moment here in the US we have spanish translation for absolutely everything from the phone book to applications. No matter where a spanish speaking person should go in the US they're encouraged to not assimilate and who's doing this encouraging. The US and this is done for spanish speakers not for all the other groups that come here.

A bit off topic but a few years ago immigration had found a home in Houston with several Chinese illegals occupying it, everyone of them in their eight months residing in this country had rudimentary use of the english langauge. Why? They understood learning the language would help them blend in with the populace here.

I didn't know police could give tickets for not speaking english this is new to me.

[edit on 29-10-2009 by Chai_An]

reply to post by projectvxn


I never said they were illegal. I was merely stating the underlying issue with any immigrant, be it legal or not. If you are going to come to this country, you need to learn our language. I'm tired of catering to their ignorance of not learning MY country's language. I would expect the very same if I were to walk into a store in mexico and when I rattle everything off in english and they give me a funny look and have no idea what I'm saying. If you are going to ANY country, there is an assimilation aspect, learn the culture.. AND the language. If you don't do that, you won't have any luck assimilating into that particular area.

[edit on 30-10-2009 by bigshow]

I guess all of our none British ancestors should have gotten a ticket upon arriving in NYC...

So the the government should dictate language?

Funny thing is many of you who support this also claim to hate government in general and us the world freedom like it was ketchup. I do not recall reading anywhere in the UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION that defines English proficiency as a prerequisite to anything in America. As with all, Authoritarians (especially on the right) usually hide behind the word freedom when it support's their own agenda, otherwise, completely ignoring the concept of freedom.