To Liberals: Define Conservatives

Since the other thread was started for Conservatives to define Liberals, it's only fair that it goes the other way.

From Wikipedia, the entry for Conservatism. Here's an excerpt:

Conservatism (from Latin: conservare = "save" or "preserve") is the diverse political and social philosophy that supports tradition and the status quo, or that calls for a return to the values and society of an earlier age, the status quo ante. However, the term has been used by politicians and political commentators with a variety of meanings. The modern political term conservative was used by French politician Chateaubriand in 1819.

I think the left/right liberal/conservative paradigm is a control tool personally, but people still fall for it.

[edit on 10/21/2009 by Finalized]

reply to post by Finalized


Well I believe Democrat/Republican is a tool, but I think Liberal/Conservative is more about human mindset and personality.

We can all post wiki and web site definitions about what we think each other are, but a personal definition of a Conservative is, to me:

Conservative: One who distrusts government and taxes, social welfare, and believes the individual should have total control over their environment and thus total responsibility for their actions. Outside events can influence a person's life, but regardless of whether or not those events are positive or negative, an individual carries the responsibility and should not seek help unsolicited from others or another entity.

Treating everyone equally means that no law should support a group of people instead of legislating that a group of people be propped up to proportionately represent themselves in our society's aspects.

That's the unbiased, completely fair definition of a Conservative from a Liberal. Unfortunately, nobody falls neatly into either category and we're all hypocritical in some way or another.

-crickets-

heh...ok, here is what each side is

Liberals:
Elitist, smelly cheese eating, tree hugging, gay transgender athiest wimpy america hating vegan welfare loving socialists.

Conservatives:
Backwoods sister marrying knuckle-dragging facist fat greasy planetkilling warmongering theocratic cheese in a can eating morons

Independents:
Waffling wimps

Libertarians :
Who?

hope that clears things up for ya

Saturn cracks me up.

As a staunch Liberal I can easily explain what Conservatism is.


Conservatism is an ideology of continuing the status quo, whatever that might be.


Where as Liberalism is an ideology of upsetting the status quo and bringing about change.


It really is that simple.

Now you can have a huge discussion about how these long time definitions relate to modern politics but those are the standard base of those ideologies.

Conservatism is supposed to be about
Smaller Government
Less government interference in our daily lives
Personal responsibilty and morality
Lower taxes
Strong on defense
Strong propoents of small to large businesses

What I d not understand is what is the difference from being a Progressive Liberal and being a communist. Can someone answer that for me?


[edit on 21-10-2009 by Hambone23]

Originally posted by Finalized

Conservatism (from Latin: conservare = "save" or "preserve") is the diverse political and social philosophy that supports tradition and the status quo, or that calls for a return to the values and society of an earlier age, the status quo ante.

See this is the issue with the people calling themselves Conservatives.

Half of them are trying to maintain and support the current tradition and status quo. Hence resistant to the change and progressive talk of the liberals, radicals, and the other wackies. They are conservative in the sense that they are tying to conserve the way things are now.

Whereas the other half of Conservatives are for restoring to an earlier time. What does this restoration entail exactly?? Change and progressive action! So do these Conservatives, wanting to restore to earlier conservative ideals, become progressive Liberals during this process? It would seem so since Conservatives label people Liberals merely at the mention of 'progress' and 'change'.

So if only the first definition really represents Conservatives, then which generation of Conservatives were conserving the most ideal ideals? Surely it isn't the current trend, that's generally accepted. Whether it's worded as such, most Conservatives today are talking about change. Hey, not referring to Obama here..

A shift towards a restoration of the old is no less progressive then a strive for something new.

My personal opinion is that Conservatives love to bash other ideologies with buzzwords like 'Change' and 'Progressive' and 'Radical', meanwhile not acknowledging it would take those very things to realize what they themselves view as ideal.

Obviously I don't consider myself a Conservative. And by that I mean I don't like the current trend. I want to restore... wait... hmm

[edit on 21-10-2009 by silver tongue devil]

Originally posted by Hambone23
What I d not understand is what is the difference from being a Progressive Liberal and being a communist. Can someone answer that for me?

Are you talking about Social Liberalism??

Here is one on Communism...something tells me it will be new info:

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Hambone23


I can't understand the difference between Conservative and Fascist.

There are parallels between all of the "isms". Oone could draw comparisons and differences in each.

Liberal doesn't fit the current theme of Liberal America any more that Conservative fits the theme of Conservative America.

I don't know if either definition ever fit the Party system we now have, but neither one fit what we know as Liberalism or Conservativeism .

I would submit that they're just words that are familiar, thus used, but neither really apply.

and it's just as easy to say that Conservatives are like Fascists, as it is to say that Liberals are like Socialists.

the principles of both are good on paper. The actual implementation however never pans out effectively.

Actually, almost all government types and social structures look great in a book and as a ideal, but the human factor quickly screws that.

I think ultimately people are hybreds of many isms, like it or not. a person can be conservative in some aspects, but when they go down on their luck for a bit, they will grab food stamps and unemployment to get them by and keep them eating until they are back in the workforce...

A liberal will eat cheeseburgers and watch low brow entertainment...

Both will enjoy similar entertainment in general, be it bowling, shooting pool and having a beer, not wanting to be told by any offical what they can watch, read, and say...etc.

The arguments the two groups are often fictional ideals that politicians tell them they need to care about...its mindgames from the up highs to divide the down lows for personal gain, be it corporate sponsored dissent, election ability, or the reason more taxes have to be culled.

The answer...the perfect ism to be is independantism...ignore what talking heads tell you what to think and simply decide what your personal ideals are...if you are pro gay marriage and anti-abortion...then be that. stop listening to people saying its one or the other...all or nothing mentality is a shortcut to individualism.

Originally posted by Hambone23
Conservatism is supposed to be about
Smaller Government
Less government interference in our daily lives
Personal responsibilty and morality
Lower taxes
Strong on defense
Strong propoents of small to large businesses

What I d not understand is what is the difference from being a Progressive Liberal and being a communist. Can someone answer that for me?

[edit on 21-10-2009 by Hambone23]

Absolutely no difference at all. Except that progressive liberals get access to more stimulus money than those who self-identify as communists.

First - I can only say I personally look at everything individually. I have no set conservative or liberal.

I can say if I had to use a label - I am a SOCIAL liberal who supports full equality for every citizen or person legally living in the USA. That includes gay marriage and equal pay for equal work.

I can say if I had to use a label - I am a practical CONSERVATIVE when it comes to spending. I believe a healthy nation is a strong nation. Because of that I support national health care and free breakfast and lunch for all children. Early nutrition is brain food.

Where does one draw the line between conservative and liberal.

Actually its pretty easy.

Conservatives - focus on established rule. They follow long time established social and political "norms".

Liberals - are basically the "catch all bucket" of every idea conservatives don't agree with.

Meaning - - there really is no set Liberal thinking. Liberals are just everything else.

Conservative- Not outwardly flashy and tells others not to be, either. Constantly points out when others are flashy. Gives the appearence of being rightous, yet behind clothes doors they're the biggest pervs there are.

My very humble opinion:

Traditional conservatives want LESS government -- infrastructure, national defense, border control, legislative enforcement.

Liberals want MORE government -- layers of control and legislation to teach/require people to belay their best interests for the good of the whole as it becomes defined.

My own political stance falls heavily conservative with active latent libertarian tendancies.

Neo-cons: Nobody that I know of identifies themselves as such, so I tend to consider it a perjorative label inflicted to discredit.

Neo-libs: Nobody that I know of identifies themselves as such, so I tend to consider it a perjorative label inflicted to discredit.

Democrat/Republican: Opposite aspects of the same desire; "wings" of both incur the most notice and press. Nonextreme aspects of both largely go unnoticed.

Consitutionalist: Conservatives with a precise and frequent noble agenda.

Libertarian: Conservatives that carry capsicum spray, honor the constitution, like only their own hands in their pockets, and support personal rights and freedoms.

Did I forget anyone? I'm an equal opportunity misunderstander.

reply to post by Abbby


Y'know............ the older you get, the less "perv" resonates as a bad thing.....

I mean, I look at the ED commercials and snicker to myself..... imagining a four-hour errection. Would I go to the hospital? NO!!! Call the press!! I want pictures

Please don't take offence... that's just my wingnut way of saying that it sounds to me as if your concept of "conservative" might really be that of a Republican. It doesn't seem to me as if there are many true conservatives left.

An observation, nothing more.

Cheers

reply to post by argentus


Ha!
I think you know what I mean, though. Yes, maybe it's the republican politicians that I'm annoyed with. No, make that all politicians. I dunno.....it's seems like everybody has a few bones in their closet nowadays. I guess I did come across kind of bitchy. My apologies.

reply to post by argentus


You forgot Anarchists

reply to post by Abbby

Ha!
I think you know what I mean, though. Yes, maybe it's the republican politicians that I'm annoyed with. No, make that all politicians. I dunno.....it's seems like everybody has a few bones in their closet nowadays. I guess I did come across kind of bitchy. My apologies.

No apologies ever necessary for speaking one's mind, Abby, but I accept anyway........ no worries

Yep. I know what you mean. There is a whole cross-section of wide-butted red-faced pundit of whatever, that seem to do nothing more than pooh-pooh progressive thinking and arch a padded cheek for the status quo. They often even pretend to support a conservative agenda. Did I sum that up accurately?

reply to post by Finalized


I'm ashamed. Yes, of course, how could we forget the quiet, disenfranchised anarchist. It's been my experience that they tend toward impressionist art and lofty poems, however that's not to say that there aren't real and genuine patriotic dreams of justice and freedom roiling under the malnourished surface. I was once one of their ranks, so I feel ya. Later on, I discovered to my dismay, that I had to produce something to be able to garner a wage in order to support my desire to be fed and watered.

Still later, I discovered that if I played the competitive game and socked away shiny little implements of monetary exchange that I could actually purchase land and do what I wanted on it.

If I am able to hold the land against agressors, I will continue to grow foods to support my own and others' desires to eat. I have a woefully inadequate supply of weaponry toward that end. Still, I'm not without resources, and the lifetime learning has certainly made me somewhat costly to take.

Everybody be safe. I guess I'm feeling a little on edge this weekend -- prior to the nexus of DOOM as forecast by our neo-modern prophets.

reply to post by Abbby


p.s. Abby, you didn't come across bitchy at ALL, at least to me. You are sick of the babbling heads on TV, I'd imagine, and I am as well. There doesn't seem to be anybody of any political or mediariffic importance that speaks for ME. They're all full of crap, and I think the best thing that could happen to CONgress and the SINate would be to impose term limits and a sudden circumcision of their benefits and income.

When we choose to pay real people a mere $47,000 per year with health benefits, retirement, per diem with a provision for ONLY commercial air travel, we will begin to get people who really care about the job, and not about forging a monetary dynasty for themselves.

conservative===no taxes except for military, no minumum wage, no restrictions on businesses (except for investors), no medicare, no social security, no social healthcare, no post office, no FDIC, no regulations for wall street, no federal reserve, no unions, no lawsuits against business (tort reform), if you are disabled, tough, your on your own. if your to old to work, tough, your on your own, if your injured on the job, tough, your on your own, if you get a disease, tough, your on your own, if you can't make enough money at work, tough, live in a tent,

CAMBODIA!! the IDEAL country for conservatives!!!