Black powder Firearms for survival

Is the simplicity of the black powder firearms going to make them a viable system for hunting and protection if one is living off the land?

Giving the reliability and better accuracy that they have over their knuckleball throwing ancestors, do these long time stand-bys still have a spot in the suvivalists hearts?

I've always thought they would be valuable. Not necessarily a modern black powder rifle because of construction tolerances but a more classic rifle that is basically a hand cannon. Theoretically they will fire anything that fits down the barrel and use anything that can combust as fuel. Something with lots of room like a blunderbuss would be great I think.

When jamming rocks down the barrel and using kerosene as propulsion be careful not to blow yourself up.

I always thought that in a true post apocalyptic world they would be better than modern firearms. After all they can be manufactured by hand, are relatively accurate, and a flintlock type only needs powder which is relatively easy to produce. This would make them viable in a long term scenario, like a complete collapse. Short term I can,t see them being really useful.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

reply to post by Jkd Up


Well lets see, how long have they been around? They worked pretty good so far wouldn't you say?

You can answer your own question here: _________________

reply to post by reluctantpawn


You've obviously never hunted with one. Remember you can always have a side arm for protection purposes.

reply to post by DaMod


I did not say more accurate, just easier to shoot and maintain over extended periods of time with opportunities to resupply.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

Actually from my personal experience a blackpower flint lock would be highly practical for long term survival. The bullets are easier to manufacture than a chambered round. Lead ball, paper patch and powder. All simple to make or acquire. I read a article in a shooting mag. about a guys grandmother who during the Great Depression made her own powder and shot game for the table, w/ her grandfathers flint lock Even black powder can be made with the right know how. And I think they are fun to shoot and very educational. I've shot guns since I was like 5 or 6 years old and I had to adjust my firing style to account for the delay in powder ignition. The colonial era hunters & trappers would wander the back woods for months with these fire arms and could make their own powder and cast bullets. Even the patch's for the bullets could substitute other materials. Just these days other than enthusiast's not many people know much about flint locks and other black powder weapons.

[edit on 21-10-2009 by hangedman13]

I could see them as a last resort, after all other manufactured ammunition were depleted.
Until then though, maybe good for use in IED's.

Or better yet a modern/old round that works well with black powder and can be used as a shotgun.... and shoots modern ammo too!!
.45 LC I said this many times and get burried by the "insert coolweapon here" crowd......

I've been looking at a flint lock rifle that can be used with eith black powder or modern smokeless powder.

I also have a 303 british which was originally designed to be loaded with black powder and can be done that way now.

Sorry to rain on the parade but this whole living off the land hysteria is becoming silly. Black powder rifles? Come on people! It's one thing to talk about ammo shortages and gun confiscation but having to rely on black powder rifles? LOL. Black powder rilfes still require black powder and musket balls two things that are "manufactured". If you want to rely on some outdated weapon try learning how to make a bow and arrow and learn flint napping. If the world is so far gone that we have to rely on musket balls and black powder for survival I think I'd rather risk seeing what's on the other side of death.

The benefit would be more appreciated in the long term.

Lead would be easy enough to accumulate and recast, as from tire weights, and with a bit of luck and know-how, black powder could be created.

It's for certain that once components run out for modern cartridges, the jig is pretty much up.

A black powder rifle may be good for hunting as later models (like mine) are .50 cal and is equipped with a high power scope. A very accurate weapon but they tend to foul quite quickly and smoke like a bad running diesel truck when fired.

It is not a weapon I'd use in self defense as your position will be given away by the large volume of smoke emanating from your firing position.

It would be my weapon of last resort.

I'm a frequent poster at the muzzleloading forum...many there would say yes they are reliable...these are traditional muzzle loaders, no modern designs. Do a quick google search on historical "trekking" ...basically camping/hunting in the wilderness in period correct clothing and gear....these people can head out with clothing, gear, and food all from the 1700s and survive for weeks...
I think if the SHTF, a knowledge of historical living or mountain man living would be a great help in the long run, once your modern gear and clothes wore out lol

Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
Sorry to rain on the parade but this whole living off the land hysteria is becoming silly. Black powder rifles? Come on people! It's one thing to talk about ammo shortages and gun confiscation but having to rely on black powder rifles? LOL. Black powder rilfes still require black powder and musket balls two things that are "manufactured". If you want to rely on some outdated weapon try learning how to make a bow and arrow and learn flint napping. If the world is so far gone that we have to rely on musket balls and black powder for survival I think I'd rather risk seeing what's on the other side of death.

I can see the point you are trying to make. But riddle me this:

If black powder rifles are so outdated... Why are they still carried by Walmart?

Odd... Flint locks are mentioned quite a bit here. I have heard that they can be tempermental at best and must be very clean to operate correctly. Is there a mechanical reason you would pick a flint lock over the newer, more modern style?

reply to post by Jkd Up


With a flintlock all parts, ammo, powder etc can be made with only crude resources. More modern black powder firearms require a primer cap that requires a stronger manufacturing base.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

reply to post by reluctantpawn



I am on the way to purchasing one here in the week. I was told how much better newer stlyes were and was on the way to make that decision, but (of course) had to get ATSers thoughts. Now, I'm not hoping that Sit X happens, but everything I buy has it in mind.

Originally posted by reluctantpawn
reply to post by Jkd Up

 

With a flintlock all parts, ammo, powder etc can be made with only crude resources. More modern black powder firearms require a primer cap that requires a stronger manufacturing base.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

I would buy both considering they are not that expensive. One flintlock and maybe a percussion rifle and percussion revolver. You can purchase 1000 caps for under $50 and a pound of black powder for under $30. I don't mention the lead because you need lead for either flintlock or percussion firearms.

Percussion revolvers would give you six shots for close quarter situations. I nice modern percussion rifle would give moderate accuracy to keep meat on your table. Old or new, percussion does better in the elements and is far more reliable.

This is just my two cents.

I am a gret believer in black powder weapons, and have a .44 Remington revolver that I have shot plenty of times. It is a heavy pistol, and does not "buck" when fired, so, with one hand, I can place six balls in a one foot circle at 30 years. Someone said it takes a manufacturing base for percussion caps? Not so, look here:
www.lockstock.com...
I use Pyrodex www.hodgdon.com... instead of black powder, more stable, less smoke and fouling, and less susceptible to wetness too.
A little tech here. When a modern bullet hits a man, if it doesn't hit a vital organ or a bone, it will normally go right through and you still have an enemy. Hit the same man with a slow moving lead ball, it carries with it any dirt, clothing, buttons, or other stuff with it, giving the victim an instant infected wound. Hit a bone, it doesn't break the bone, it shatters the bone, requiring amputation of the limb. Fire a modern bullet into water, it deflects upon hitting the surface, fire a ball into water, it goes right on down, hitting your target.
I once showed a policeman with a police snap down holster and a Glock 9 mm that I could easily out draw him and get off one click before he could clear leather. I will never forget the look on his face.

Also, I can buy powder, caps, wads, and parts without signing my name. Try that with a box of modern shells. And, there is no Federal Laws concerning black powder weapons. It is, in effect, a non gun.