In Christianity, Why is Satan Evil, and God Good? What is Evil?

reply to post by Neo-Dark


Jesus didn't use magic. He had the supernatural power of the Heavenly Father.



Peace,
Grandma

reply to post by John Matrix

The garden of Eden still exists. Adam and Eve left it...remember?
We can't see the garden because we are seeing with physical eyes.
The garden is where it has always been.

Biblical scripture is against you on this one. The garden of Eden is described as a physical place with physical entities living in it surrounded by physical landmarks as they exist on our physical Earth. No where is it stated that the garden is not physical.

One who speaks for Satan and denies the word of truth asks the one who accepts it? God has already spoken. His revelations are found in scripture.

And yet somehow you feel as if you are above God to the point where you can redefine what he has already said with all these concepts that just don't exist in God's word to man.

God cannot be separated from himself. That man has been separated from the Divine nature is what the entire plan of redemption is about.
What I said is self evident throughout the entire Bible.

Was it initially planned by God, whom claims to know all, to allow man to fall from grace then, in which case how does that justify the punishment given?

Don't confuse Love with hypocritical sentimentality.
Humility, Meekness and Patience are acts of Love.
All these elements of the Divine nature are the workings and expressions of Love.

Humility is more than just accepting God nor do you understand the concept between an insult and an observation of your character. We've gone over this many times John, if you conduct yourself as a hypocrite you will be called a hypocrite. It doe not matter if *you* take offense to that observation as *you* are the cause of that observation.

I'm aware of some 150 old testament profecies that were fulfilled by Jesus's birth, life, teachings, death, and resurrection. Those prophetic scriptural proofs demonstrate that you are promulgating unbiblical lies.

And yet, let's deny the existence of other Messiah's that have come to be but were denied as the Messiah for failure to fulfill all of the Messianic Prophecies just as Jesus failed to do. The Messianic prophecies aren't for Christians whom worship Jesus as if he is God. The prophecies are for the houses of Israel and Judah alone and no where is it stated that the Messiah would usher in a new religion in which it's followers would treat the Messiah as a God. Your interpretations do not coincide with the Word of God.

JM, I've noticed again that you continuously drop whole lines of argument when backed into a corner, why have you not refuted what was said about death? Do you submit that you were possibly wrong and this is why you've gone silent, just as you are going to do with the Eden concept of yours?

reply to post by sirnex

And yet, let's deny the existence of other Messiah's that have come to be but were denied as the Messiah for failure to fulfill all of the Messianic Prophecies just as Jesus failed to do. The Messianic prophecies aren't for Christians whom worship Jesus as if he is God. The prophecies are for the houses of Israel and Judah alone and no where is it stated that the Messiah would usher in a new religion in which it's followers would treat the Messiah as a God. Your interpretations do not coincide with the Word of God.

JM, I've noticed again that you continuously drop whole lines of argument when backed into a corner, why have you not refuted what was said about death? Do you submit that you were possibly wrong and this is why you've gone silent, just as you are going to do with the Eden concept of yours?

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A good point you have that I like to give a view on.


Jesus is not done yet I would like to know where he has failed? You make it sound like you are seeing it from a Jewish perspective which is the sole cause of him being rejected and pierced on the cross because of that rejection yet another fulfilled prophecy from Zechariah 12, he will come back and finish his job off a second time, but sorry to say, before that occurs the Jews will once again do te same pattern of rejection and fall for the anti-Christ's trap.

That is why it is the time of the gentiles, once the Jews accept Christ not some other unamed Messiah, Christ will further fullfil his destiny and prophecy, which parts has he yet to fullfil or is that coming.

Zechariah 12:10 (New International Version)

Mourning for the One They Pierced

10 "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit [a] of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.
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[edit on 26-10-2009 by The time lord]

reply to post by The time lord


That verse says nothing to me of a second coming. From what was previously told to me, that all the temples are to be built exactly as God commands, the second temple has never been built yet exactly as commanded. Herod instead added his own personal touches to it. Without the second temple being built exact as the first as commanded by God himself, the prophecy hasn't come to fruition yet. No second temple means no Messiah means no destruction of second temple. At least we know Christians are the Jews who are not Jews who will worship at his feet, the synagogue of Satan. Christians are the only one's I know of who worship at the feet of a false prophet as described by God.

In response to your thread...

In everything, there is one common thread: positive and negative. Protons/neutrons, light/dark, etc.etc. You get the point. However, as mankind becomes more intelligent, and with the ability to reason (which seperates us from animals) we begin to question: WHY? The Bible clearly states that HIS ways ARE NOT our ways. English: HE does things that we're not able to understand. PERIOD.
Take for example. You're working at a job and you feel like that you could do your bosses' job better than your boss (who also happens to have created that company). You start up a scheme (along with your fellow co-workers) to get your boss "outta there" so that you can do the job that you feel like you are more capable of doing. Therefor, since the boss catches wind of your scheme, he fires you and your co-schemers and walks you off the jobsite. Now, you are recently out of a job alongside your fellow co-conspirators. You're raving mad and you want revenge. What better way to get revenge, since you now know you can't take over the company? You maliciously and intentionally try to get at the company's customers by degrading, demeaning and/or decieving them about your former boss and the company. So, now you create your own company in the likeness of the former and "go after" your newly founded competitor's customers, by propaganda referring your product as being better....GET IT?

If evil is what's hurt and good is what makes life.
Then why do some of us bring evil and life in the
-- Od-Ma-Kn-g.

If you are knowledgeable of Christ then you know.
Helping others is good.
Harming others is evil.
Everything else is just Bible crap spun by Satan to make you feel guilty and
allow organized religion to have power over you and your wallet.

Double post

[edit on 26/10/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]

L'aborte

7[edit on 26/10/2009 by N7o Christian Mystic]7

[edit on 26/10/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]

reply to post by CHA0S


Somehow you missed this important passage:

Isaiah 45:
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.
9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

If people believe that this present state of being...that is, this human body is all that there is...discounting quantum physics and other states of consciousness...then your questioning could have some relevance. But if there is more to existence than this "reality" we are all familiar with (and the Bible says there is more...See 1 Corinthians 15) then your questioning is off in regards to God causing the killing of human flesh.

As far as your questioning homosexuality, why hasn't anyone looked at this topic from a Darwinian evolutionary point of view? If two mean are exclusively homosexual, then their bloodline dies. No further evolution takes place with those two DNA strains. I guess one could say that homosexuality is nature's way of killing off certain DNA strains and the loss of their genetic memory.

Therefore, we see that the bible is against homosexuality and evolution could use it (if homosexuality is genetic) to destroy a blood line or parts of it. If homosexuality is a choice as the bible seems to suggest, then it is immoral from that point of view, and unnatural and genetic suicide from a evolutionary point of view.

Where do you get the idea that the Bible is against blood transfusions? Are you a former Jehovah's Witness. The bible says not to consume man's blood...consume as in EAT with the mouth...as in cannibalism.

Just to let you know, your entire line of reasoning is utilized by those that do worship Satan.

Originally posted by Siren

Like I said, if Satan is in your life, and if he is your enemy, you are not of God, and certainly have not learned anything from what Jesju taught us.

This part is not true. Satan interferes more with the lives of people who are trying to live as Jesus taught. This world, right now, is controlled by Satan. The “beast” is the system Satan uses to maintain that control. “Whom Christ has freed” is and will be persecuted until Christ regains the throne.

Think about Satan like God's police. If Satan is after you, there is something wrong with you, there is something you think, feel, say or do which has brought attention to Satan, so he flies off on his wings and starts testing you, putting a Damokles-sword over your head, to see what happens. So, just like if we have turned against the law of the country we live in, and the police are after us, there is something we must repent from and fix. If you say Jesju had to be tortured, crusified and killed like the church tells us to believe, you have to be able to found, explain it and understand it. It's no use to say the priest told you so. For it wasn't the Tree of Faith or the Tree of Submission we ate from some 6,000 years ago in Eden, it was the Tree of Knowledge. Satan will see how you judge, and judge yourself accordingly. If you justify killing an innocent man for your own good, Satan might justify killing you for the same reasons, according to your own way of justification.

I'd love to know what the hell Satan could ever do or think that would be more horribly evil than what a human being is capable of on his/her own.

Evil is just extreme competition expressed in an environment that is ruled by competition. In fact, selflessness is the true abomination in the environment that contains our world. Entire galaxies devour smaller galaxies that stray too close. Existence itself is a battle between one potential and the other, with the stronger potential destroying the other for its own moment of manifestation. To give is to violate the natural order of all that struggles to maintain existence, and that's why true, selfless Love is so rare and priceless. It is the ultimate exposure, and requires the most strength and courage.

There is no Satan. Satan is a disgustingly feeble excuse, tossed out there by craven cowards who haven't the sack to own up to their own innate ugliness with an instant of integrity.

Humans are this world's Satan, and they always have been. No campfire boogeyman stories or bedtime fairy tales will change that cold, disinterested fact of corporeal existence.

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


Are you making up your own scenarios, Satan is in opposition to God, and I am sure that loving Jesus and His way must be at the top of Satan's list. If you got your info from Satan you should know by now that he is "the father of lies".

There is a saying:

In the land of the blind, the one eye is king".

[edit on 28-10-2009 by Siren]

reply to post by Siren


Prove Lucifer has lied once or killed even once. I don't understand how Christians can continuously spread bigoted hateful lies against someone who told us the truth and gave us knowledge to see God for what he truly is.

Originally posted by kingoftheworld
The one problem I always have is if God blames Satan for all our problems in the world such as poverty, murder rape etc., why would he have created him in the first place. He knows "all" including the future so why would he just have not created him in the first place and everything would be straight.

I thought i was crazy when i thought of this myself. You cant tell christians this because they wont give you a straight answer. Ill give you a star for this.

reply to post by sirnex


The answer is in your posts....but I think you know that. You have made great points here!

If we all follow a God who's nature is killing, anger, jealousy, and pride...then we will be of that same nature. A liar is of these same attributes. So many will lie, having no proof, try to persuade others about something they really dont have any evidence for.

Its simple, what attributes does a liar carry with them. Well I remember being young, I lied to my neighbor lady while at her house. She has a cup of Reese cups sitting on her table. My desire and greed deciding to take one of the candies. Later she asked me if I took one...and I told her no. After guilt settled in me....a few days later, I told her I took one of her candies with my eyes full of tears as I told her my shame.

Without the greed of wanting that candy to be mine, without the desire for the yummy candy that I knew wasnt good for me (I highly doubt that I would of took a banana or an apple) I dont think I would of acted in a way that allowed me to lie.

This is why I tell people to seek 'natures'. If there is something of Gods nature that is written about Thee and does not fit well with what 'perfect' and 'righteous' mean....then mark those things as 'red flags'.

You have one nature who needs bloodshed for sins....and one who doesnt. This is a great start right here to see where the dark nature dwells.

What I find great is that the truth to these two natures is in the Bible if one is seeking and reads between the lines.

It clearly says we will reap what we sow...and it clearly says we are to not follow two masters (natures).

Most just accept the written words without discernment.

Originally posted by PSUSA

He knows "all" including the future so why would he just have not created him in the first place and everything would be straight.

Name one virtue that isn't learned by overcoming some form of evil.

It seems to me that your words indicate that you believe all would be paradise if only God had been more considerate by not creating Satan. I submit we can't handle a paradise in our weakened state. We need a fight, to struggle to grow and learn. We sometimes need a good push to do this, and evil is a good tool to use to make us do things we dont want to do.

You know what happens to people when they get everything handed to them on a silver platter. They turn into spoiled brats.

If we need evil to grow and learn then how can the devil be such a bad guy? IF hes needed to help us. How can helping us learn and grow be bad?

Originally posted by gerg357

Originally posted by kingoftheworld
The one problem I always have is if God blames Satan for all our problems in the world such as poverty, murder rape etc., why would he have created him in the first place. He knows "all" including the future so why would he just have not created him in the first place and everything would be straight.

I thought i was crazy when i thought of this myself. You cant tell christians this because they wont give you a straight answer. Ill give you a star for this.

Even if we take Satan as a 'being' out of the picture...we still end up with rape, murder, ect ect.

The flesh itself, the experience of being in separate bodies...creates and tempts humans to follow in carnal ways. It is truly a testing ground to discern where our natures lie. Did God create all of this 'knowing' that some humans would kill, be greedy, ect ect.

If we look at our Earth and our Universe, everything goes through cycles and orders. Everything follows some sort of law that is about cycles. The seed coming from the Earth and later returning back to the Earth. All materials do this. It might not be only about what God 'allows'....but more so about how God 'knows' how well the law of cause and effect, and reaping what we sow....will work in the long run. This cycle would provide us with chances to learn from what we do, learn how our ways effect others, if we live a carnal life, we may return to the carnal sphere. If we finally discern to live more for the Spirit...we may then return to the Spirit.

So it might not be all about God allowing these horrible things to become and be...but more so the knowing that we all learn from not only what we do wrong but also what others do wrong.

Its like a hardening of hearts over a huge amount of time....over many many cycles. A parable of this would be a vineyard of many grapes. These grapes taking many many cycles to ripen. There are still going to be some rotten grapes in the batch, but the grapes will be sifted to make sure the wine comes from the best grapes. You might have a whole barrel full of grapes, but yet only get a small glass of wine.

I think the word Satan can easily be replaced with the word 'flesh'. It is our flesh bodies that deal with the temptations of this world and the experience of 'separation'. Separation makes greed and pride. Even though God is 'God', doesnt mean Thee works in ways of 'choice'. God very likely might be more like a 'force' that follows a path of emanation through cycles and orders, and this way can create what seems to be 'bad' things.....but how do we learn to be 'better' is we dont have something 'worse' to compare the 'better' to?

Just thinking out loud...
LV

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by John Matrix

 

The garden of Eden still exists. Adam and Eve left it...remember?
We can't see the garden because we are seeing with physical eyes.
The garden is where it has always been.

Biblical scripture is against you on this one. The garden of Eden is described as a physical place with physical entities living in it surrounded by physical landmarks as they exist on our physical Earth. No where is it stated that the garden is not physical.

One who speaks for Satan and denies the word of truth asks the one who accepts it? God has already spoken. His revelations are found in scripture.

And yet somehow you feel as if you are above God to the point where you can redefine what he has already said with all these concepts that just don't exist in God's word to man.

God cannot be separated from himself. That man has been separated from the Divine nature is what the entire plan of redemption is about.
What I said is self evident throughout the entire Bible.

Was it initially planned by God, whom claims to know all, to allow man to fall from grace then, in which case how does that justify the punishment given?

Don't confuse Love with hypocritical sentimentality.
Humility, Meekness and Patience are acts of Love.
All these elements of the Divine nature are the workings and expressions of Love.

Humility is more than just accepting God nor do you understand the concept between an insult and an observation of your character. We've gone over this many times John, if you conduct yourself as a hypocrite you will be called a hypocrite. It doe not matter if *you* take offense to that observation as *you* are the cause of that observation.

I'm aware of some 150 old testament profecies that were fulfilled by Jesus's birth, life, teachings, death, and resurrection. Those prophetic scriptural proofs demonstrate that you are promulgating unbiblical lies.

And yet, let's deny the existence of other Messiah's that have come to be but were denied as the Messiah for failure to fulfill all of the Messianic Prophecies just as Jesus failed to do. The Messianic prophecies aren't for Christians whom worship Jesus as if he is God. The prophecies are for the houses of Israel and Judah alone and no where is it stated that the Messiah would usher in a new religion in which it's followers would treat the Messiah as a God. Your interpretations do not coincide with the Word of God.

JM, I've noticed again that you continuously drop whole lines of argument when backed into a corner, why have you not refuted what was said about death? Do you submit that you were possibly wrong and this is why you've gone silent, just as you are going to do with the Eden concept of yours?

Youre correct about the other messiahs. There was one that supposed to have existed who did the same thing as jesus supposidly done. Spelling im sure will be off but his name was apolloinus of tiana its something like that.