A serious flaw in the bible...

Originally posted by manmaidslave
i don't believe the bible says how old the earth is. i don't remember a verse saying, "thou earth is 6000 years old". It just says, "In the beggining", the beggining may of been 10 billion years ago, give or take a few billion years. The Bible is not a litteral translation of what God said, no one ever said that, it is writen by men and interpretated by men. It has been translated many many times. So stop being so argumentative and just take th Bible for its stories and learn from them. Who cares when the Earth started, i wasn't around then and it has nothing to do with my belief or life as it stands today. Move along, this thread isn't the one you are looking for.

With a literal swipe of your hand you dismiss an ENTIRE religion and then tell us to shut up and move on.

Well Done, good and faithful servant.
signed Satan

reply to post by CHA0S


Not to push the point, but the teachings of Jesus are mostly a lesson in morality and can be easily digested without the threat of Hell involved.

Additionally, being "good" is not what gets you into Heaven according to the New Testament. Being "bad" doesn't send you away from the Father's presence for eternity.

But I'm not here to preach.

One major flaw on the OP is carbon dating has been disproved. It doesn't work. Scientists admitted that a long time ago.

They date the rock with the earth around it and the earth with the rocks around it. Not too effective to begin with. Add carbon dating not working and looks like we're "at the beginning.."

reply to post by DocEmrick


This is a tavern-philosopher level question at best.

Throw us off of what?

EDIT - I see your update now, but I'm not sure I would understand the motive . If Satan was attempting to deceive man by saying God is good and Satan is bad, then were does his "win" come in?


[edit on 20-10-2009 by WickettheRabbit]

reply to post by DocEmrick

What if Satan, or a demonic, ignorant entity, maybe even an alien, crafted the Abrahamic faiths in order to lure people away from their true nature; spirituality - and lead people to not question the universe, not question the reasoning behind things like quantum mechanics, and what's really out there?

I believe they were crafted by someone other than God (if he exists) in order to do just that...plus an array of other things...it certainly does seem like they are trying to restrict independent thought...

[edit on 20/10/09 by CHA0S]

reply to post by fbnks

Although I don't believe carbon dating is as useless as you suggest...if you do some research you will see we have numerous methods to determine the date of the Earth...and why is it as soon as you can debunk one thing, you think you've won...what do you have to say about the star light?

[edit on 20/10/09 by CHA0S]

reply to post by WickettheRabbit


I didn't mean it was Satan per se. I don't believe in an actual entity named Satan. I do, however, believe that there are misleading and ignorant entities "out there."

One thing that I like to use as an example, is to take a look at the Eastern religions, and then compare them to the Abrahamic faiths. Why are they so different? Why do ancient religious such as Buddhism, Hinduism, etc tell tales of multiple universes, reincarnation, and quantum theories that are being verified by "godless scientists" today? Why do these faiths point at spirituality and call it "Satanism," "Devil Worship," and "ignorant." It seems to me as if somebody, some thing, or some group of things wanted to dumb down the human race using these so called "scriptures" as their main method.

reply to post by DocEmrick


These are very valid questions and I won't dare speak for Christianity or Christians in general. However, for me, I embrace a lot of thought from multiple sources including Eastern religions, fringe science, etc. I believe man's greatest restraint is mankind itself driven by fear.

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

Ok, god creates man in his image, male and female he created them.
A little bit later he finds that adam doesn't want to bang goats all the time and creates eve.
...
Genesis 1 and 2 contradict each other every other sentence, and you think the age of the earth is the problem?

Ok, how about this: what is the first thing Noah does after the flood? He sacrifices of the clean beasts to god!
Now lets breed some sheep, there is a world to repopulate, right?
Oooops...
Not as bad, since he somehow managed to somehow bring simultanously 7 and 2 of each kind onto the ark.

Of course the majority of christians doesn't take the bible literally. You can't! Of those who do the majority propably has never read it.

Originally posted by WickettheRabbit
reply to post by DocEmrick

 

These are very valid questions and I won't dare speak for Christianity or Christians in general. However, for me, I embrace a lot of thought from multiple sources including Eastern religions, fringe science, etc. I believe man's greatest restraint is mankind itself driven by fear.

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

You know that DUNE is a movie and not real...right?

I believe that fear is natural and healthy.

I also believe that SOMETHING gave us the ability to know right from wrong...'GOD, A TREEE, whatever. Right and wrong is not man made. Otherwise beastiality, pedophilia, theft would be acceptable SOMEWHERE!

The world conscious did not decide not to boink horses. Keeping your hands to yourself is UNIVERSAL. Just as is a spleen and a brain. SOMETHING PUT ALL OF THIS IN US!.

Not the matrix. Not aliens from Nibiru.

reply to post by CHA0S


Lets look at where we are today Chaos. Abortion = mass murder of unborn children, led by woman being pregnant before they get out of high school has dramtically increased.

Our school children are being taught about sex in kindergarden. They want to teach them how to masturbate at the age of 5. That it is okay to be sodomised by an adult. That our little daughters can have sex at any age.

People are murdering their families and then killing themselves. Suicide is rampant. People that kill and rape are put on television shows and made into celebraties.

Our techology is now designed to invade your privacy, a microchip has been made to be implanted into your body, in which it will attach to your nervous system and you will be controlled. Our freedom and rights are being stripped from us on a DAILY basis.

We are on the verge of an american revolution. Unjust wars, corruption in our banking, investment firms, corporations and governments at the most deepest levels. Our jobs, homes and families are torn apart and taken from us. And you will need to be monitored by a government agent when raising your own child.

Our health care will be controlled by the government, too expensive for anyone to pay for it, and if you don't have it, you will be fined and go to jail. You are now being taxed by the energy you consume and soon to be taxed for the very air that you breathe.

All of your thoughts and opinions can be labeled as a hate crime, you will go to jail. Just for expressing them.

The money you earn is taxed so heavily now you can barely pay for food on your table, or pay your bills, or the home that you own. What are they doing with your tax payer dollars?

Why bombing the moon for water and other resources, fighting their unrighteous wars, creating a one world government. Funding a secret elite space force and weaponising space. Controlling our climate, and spreading chemical trails in our environment to spread sickness and disease.

And much much more. I don't know what reality your living in, but I find comfort in the fact that there is a Savior that lives within me and is above me and that He promises me that this will one day all come to an end.

That someday He will openly rule and reign on this earth and the filth of our world will be cleaned up. That all the evil will be gone and that I will live an eternal life with Him to see peace and experience joy. LOVE, righteousness, justice and TRUTH.

I say to you Chaos and anyone else that finds comfort in the world that we live in today, get the blinders off and take a real good look at what is happening to this world and tell me that you are happy being a part of it.

Evil is rampant and is growing. Without the LORD Jesus Christ, there would be no hope. I will cling to my Bible and to His word and the promises that He made to us. I will do my best to live a life without sin and be obedient to HIM and live according to what He has taught me. I pray that more people will turn to Him through my testimony so that they too can have hope for a better world then the one that we have allowed to be crafted by a few Elite.

reply to post by crmanager

I also believe that SOMETHING gave us the ability to know right from wrong...'GOD, A TREEE, whatever. Right and wrong is not man made. Otherwise beastiality, pedophilia, theft would be acceptable SOMEWHERE!

Dude...you do realize how young the age limit in some countries is for having sex...if it isn't pedophilia...I don't know what is...and I think theft is obviously illegal because society revolves around money...violence is illegal because people don't like to feel pain...there is a clear reason these things are illegal...everywhere...

[edit on 20/10/09 by CHA0S]

Groupies--

Of COURSE the 'Bible' (or the books that were eventually voted into it by the councils) is FLAWED---even in the first few sentences in Genesis it states that the (flat) Earth is surrounded by a Req'iak ('dome', literally FLAT at the bottom and ROUND at the top, i.e. the 'firmament') which it is NOT...and a few sentences later it claims that VEGETATION and TREES etc. were 'created' (Heb. 'bara') BEFORE the Sun, the Moon AND the STARS !!!

So from the very opening words we can see at a glance that the language being used is MYTH not SCIENCE, e.g. at least not SCIENCE in the postivistic 'modern' sense of the term we use today...more like magick spells to be recited (incanted, acted out) at the New Year Spring Festival (21 March every year, by today's western calendar) following upon earlier Canaanite Fertility Festivals where magick spells were recited to get the 'earth to fructify' on time (so people wouldn't starve to death, which they believed would happen unless the priests goaded on mother Nature)...

Scientific knowledge used different words...so one cannot take 'the bible' literally, especially if you have no working knowledge of unpointed PaleoHebrew or of ancient Canaanite Creation Myths (of which there are TWO contradictory ones in the opening chapters of Genesis, chapter 1:1 to 2:4a and 2:4b to 4:26 where the order of creation is different and different verbs are used) which make heavy use of borrowing of other culture's world-views especially the far more ancient and sophisticated Assyro-Babylonian and Egyptian Creation Myths we have discovered over the past 300 years....

So of course it's flawed...and certainly not divinely inspired by any stretch by people who can actually read and understand the text versions (MT, SamPent, LXX, Vorlage to LXX and the later Aramaric Targums etc.) in the original language !

reply to post by ljib777

If God is so caring and all knowing...why is it he let all this happen in the first place?!?

I don't know what reality your living in, but I find comfort in the fact that there is a Savior that lives within me and is above me and that He promises me that this will one day all come to an end.

That someday He will openly rule and reign on this earth and the filth of our world will be cleaned up. That all the evil will be gone and that I will live an eternal life with Him to see peace and experience joy. LOVE, righteousness, justice and TRUTH.

You have a right to any belief you want...I just hope it works out for you...though I wouldn't rely to heavily on God...why don't you try fixing every little bit you can in the mean time...sitting around and praying won't get much done in my opinion...well it doesn't seem to be does it?!?

I say to you Chaos and anyone else that finds comfort in the world that we live in today, get the blinders off and take a real good look at what is happening to this world and tell me that you are happy being a part of it.

I never said I find comfort in this world...I don't...and that wasn't even the topic...

What you are quoting comes from the Old Testament not the New Testament, so your argument here is not really with Christians or Christianity but with Judaism. I would suggest that you address your questions to a qualified Rabbinical scholar.

Originally posted by Nventual
On one hand, what is written in the bible isn't necessarily the word of God, it is the word of man and how he interprets what God has shown and said. On the other hand, how science interprets everything is dependent on its past formulas and knowledge - therefore it is flawed and can and has been incorrect.

If God had really wanted to communicate with us, he/she/whatever would not have had somebody write a book for him. He would have implanted the message directly into our souls. Since that is not the case, I can only conclude that the word of the bible is not what God would have wanted to tell us, and since he has not implanted (or beamed) any sort of message into us, he really has nothing to tell us.

Ergo: the bible is a good fictional read, but it surely can't be gospel.

reply to post by debunky

Genesis 1 and 2 contradict each other every other sentence, and you think the age of the earth is the problem?

No, they don't Genesis 1 is a general account. Genesis 2 is a more detailed account of the creation of man.

Ok, how about this: what is the first thing Noah does after the flood? He sacrifices of the clean beasts to god!
Now lets breed some sheep, there is a world to repopulate, right?
Oooops...
Not as bad, since he somehow managed to somehow bring simultanously 7 and 2 of each kind onto the ark.

God told him to bring seven of the clean animals. Genesis 7.1-3:

Then the LORD said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and all your household, for I have seen that you are righteous before me in this generation. Take with you seven pairs of all clean animals, the male and his mate, and a pair of the animals that are not clean, the male and his mate, and seven pairs of the birds of the heavens also, male and female, to keep their offspring alive on the face of all the earth. ..."

I don't understand what your problem is with this part.

Of course the majority of christians doesn't take the bible literally. You can't! Of those who do the majority propably has never read it.

I'd beg to differ. You got it backwards. Those that don't read the Bible don't take it literally. Those that do take the time to read tend to take it more literal than not.

Originally posted by Nventual

Originally posted by Anuberial
reply to post by Nventual

 

First of all, the Bible is the word of God...It is true that man wrote it, but God told them what to say and how to write it. They did not just interpret it

Well, they did interpret it. The Bible we read today has been interpreted many times to understand its original meaning. Who knows what is right and what is wrong in it? I am Christian, and I love God obviously but his word has got lost there's no doubt about it.

It has also been translated many times. The bible you read is an interpretation of an interpretation/translation from another language, which no doubt in turn was an interpretation/translation from yet another language.

reply to post by moniker

If God had really wanted to communicate with us, he/she/whatever would not have had somebody write a book for him. He would have implanted the message directly into our souls. Since that is not the case, I can only conclude that the word of the bible is not what God would have wanted to tell us, and since he has not implanted (or beamed) any sort of message into us, he really has nothing to tell us.

Very nice...a good way of putting it...I've come to the same conclusion...anyways...I'm gonna hit the hay...be back later...

reply to post by moniker

If God had really wanted to communicate with us, he/she/whatever would not have had somebody write a book for him. He would have implanted the message directly into our souls.

To this all I have to say is the following, from Isaiah 55.8:

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD.

In other words, God doesn't, nor does he have to, do things in the way that we as finite humans would understand.

Knowing how people are, it's actually reasonable, in my opinion, that if a higher being is trying to get a message to us, it would be written down as opposed to in our heart, soul, or anywhere else. The reason being that humans are emotional creatures. We can read our emotions or feelings the wrong way or ignore them completely. We really don't know how our non-physical make up works, so this embedded message could be lost and ignored. Jeremiah 17.9:

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it.

I should probably clarify that this idea goes strictly for a message that someone is trying to get to us. The Bible says that we all do in fact have it as part of us to know that there is a God. But, we choose to ignore it often times. Romans 1:18-32 talks about this somewhat.