Woman murdered with sword, after woman sword murder cartoon in the 'Independent'

Almost exactly 3 weeks ago, the Independent newspaper printed an edition where earlier on in the paper there was an article "This man taught me how to kill in four moves", explaining that the man being given publicity can help people with self-defence killing techniques and situations where "the knives come out, the head drops, and you just want to end another person's life".

In the same edition of the newspaper, there was elsewhere a half-page full colour cartoon, showing Gordon Brown on the point of wielding a huge sword - shown depicted dripping with blood from an earlier killing, pictured shown with a top half-naked terrified women, with her hair grasped by Gordon Brown.

In another part of this Independent edition, there was a golf article, whose text was obscured by apparently what looked like a small piece of blank paper that had got in the way of the printing plates.

I was very sorry to read a few days ago, that a woman had been found murdered with a sword in America. I think it very highly that the cartoon in the 'Independent' newspaper was a catalyst, trigger or idea originating point to this homicide.

I have completely lost sympathy for the publishers of the Independent, which is already in financial difficulties.
"Murder is alive and kicking, thanks to the middle class" is today's article in the Independent, which can be found by going to the Independent title bar at the top of the page, and clicking on the text at the very top right of the screen of the online version of the newspaper. The final paragraph of the article closes:-

"The result, whatever the mechanics by which it has been achieved, is that, in terms of imagination and motive, the domestic murders whose fading Orwell lamented are in the midst of a revival. Thanks, as so often in our history, to the middle classes, the English murder is no longer in decline."

If this were a true family newspaper, they should be vehemently against murder. Same sentiment to the publishers of the Daily Mail !

Correct me if I'm mistaken but are you implying that the content and wording of the articles and actual events that take place later are no coincidence? Are you attempting to imply that the Independent is using its circulation and readership to increase violence by subliminal messaging of some type? Or do you believe that these articles are a trigger for some manchurian candidate types? What is the purpose? Why would the paper want to increase violence amongst its readerships?

I'm confused.

I did not star of flag this post. What are you trying to say?

[edit on 18-10-2009 by Hazelnut]

Originally posted by Hazelnut
Correct me if I'm mistaken but are you implying that the content and wording of the articles and actual events that take place later are no coincidence? Are you attempting to imply that the Independent is using its circulation and readership to increase violence by subliminal messaging of some type? Or do you believe that these articles are a trigger for some manchurian candidate types? What is the purpose? Why would the paper want to increase violence amongst its readerships?

I'm confused.

I did not star of flag this post. What are you trying to say?

[edit on 18-10-2009 by Hazelnut]

I'd check out the OP's other thread on the same subject:

I believe over 1,000 people were murdered due to the actions of a UK national newspaper

To the OP, I noticed that there was some football coverage in this week's SIndy. I'm a bit concerned that there may be some football match or other happening in the week somewhere or other. Who do I complain to?

[edit on 18-10-2009 by Merriman Weir]

Originally posted by Hazelnut
Correct me if I'm mistaken but are you implying that the content and wording of the articles and actual events that take place later are no coincidence?

[edit on 18-10-2009 by Hazelnut]

That's right. And, as one of my other threads has been mentioned - the Daily Mail, I am saying that crimes have been originated by some of their headlines, such as, verbatim quotes:-

"Now they will stab him in the front", page 3, January 8th 2006 (Mail on Sunday)

"Rape girl, 13, stoned...", a small headline in a November edition of the Daily Mail.

"KNIVES ARE OUT FOR ALESHA", page 8, September 21, 2009 - 6 people were murdered with knives in the week following this headline.

"KNIVES ARE OUT FOR GORDON BROWN", the front page headline of the Daily Mail, July 2nd 2001 - the day of the 'softly, softly approach to cannabis in North Lambeth, London'

"After a week to forget, the knives are out" - page 11, May 1st 2009. A few days later, a pregnant woman was stabbed to death by a man with knife psychosis.

In respect of the question about football matches, I think it is off-topic.

[edit on 18-10-2009 by TheDailyPlanet]

reply to post by TheDailyPlanet


Maybe there is a need to go lie down in a dark room for a while.
Prove to me that firstly whoever murdered the woman in America had either the ability or the propensity to read British newspapers in America. Prove that they read newspapers at all, British or otherwise. Prove that they read a newspaper, saw a cartoon and thought...'wow, looks good to me...I must go kill...I must go kill...I must go kill...'
Get a grip....

How many times have people been stabbed without a knife-related headline? Probably more than have been stabbed with the headline. Who would throw their life into chaos by stabbing somebody just because a newspaper said so. Most people would go after a single person or group of people because they have done something to them. I don't think anybody would do what a newspaper says, and if they do, then they must've been crazy to start with.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

To the OP, I noticed that there was some football coverage in this week's SIndy. I'm a bit concerned that there may be some football match or other happening in the week somewhere or other. Who do I complain to?

[edit on 18-10-2009 by Merriman Weir]

I don't understand the logic of your difficulty, however I can let you know some article text from the Daily Mail in respect of football:-


'As the knives were being aimed at Avram Grant with the body of his side still warm, John Terry made a secret vow to breath new life into Chelsea'

'The jeers of the crowd were assailing his ears and, in the background, he could hear the sound of knives being sharpened.'


I think that the quoted text shows wicked abuse of the English language. I wonder if someone can give a defence for the above text, and tell me why it is not problematic. I would rather hope that at least someone would agree with me! And with the thread subject - that these cartoons / words etc. are catalysts to crime.

The Independent is read all over the world, and the online edition is also read all over the world. The Daily Mail has been bought by over 2 million people daily, with a printed copy readership of over 5 million. The website www.dailymail.co.uk attracts 29 million unique users per month, at this time.

[edit on 18-10-2009 by TheDailyPlanet]

Originally posted by oneclickaway
reply to post by TheDailyPlanet

 

Maybe there is a need to go lie down in a dark room for a while.
Prove to me that firstly whoever murdered the woman in America had either the ability or the propensity to read British newspapers in America. Prove that they read newspapers at all, British or otherwise. Prove that they read a newspaper, saw a cartoon and thought...'wow, looks good to me...I must go kill...I must go kill...I must go kill...'
Get a grip....

Listen...the OP is pretty effectively in my opinion trying to connect the dots in what is a compelling set of data points. Read the OPs first thread on the topic, take some time to draw some conclusions that are more than just a knee-jerk effort to downgrade someone else's ideas, and then come back and contribute something of use and of interest to the rest of us.

Otherwise, get off of this blantantly conspiracy-oriented and alternative media website and go geek around on cnn.com, where you can have just as much of a closed mind as you want.

End of message

I think the OP would be surprised how many people are killed each year in America by swords. I also think the OP may be a bit delusional. YMMV

reply to post by TheDailyPlanet


Can you provide us any actual connection between this cartoon in a British newspaper, and this murder of a woman in the USA, that are separated by a 3 week timespan?

Or are you just connecting 2 global random events with no evidence?

Originally posted by TheDailyPlanet
I don't understand the logic of your difficulty, however I can let you know some article text from the Daily Mail in respect of football:-

'As the knives were being aimed at Avram Grant with the body of his side still warm, John Terry made a secret vow to breath new life into Chelsea'

'The jeers of the crowd were assailing his ears and, in the background, he could hear the sound of knives being sharpened.'

I think that the quoted text shows wicked abuse of the English language. I wonder if someone can give a defence for the above text, and tell me why it is not problematic. I would rather hope that at least someone would agree with me! And with the thread subject - that these cartoons / words etc. are catalysts to crime.

It's not problematic because you're being incredibly selective with your metaphor to literal reading and enactment process. Why does only this metaphor work as a trigger? Why not every other metaphor used in every other piece of journalism? After all, you seem to have this impression that this is either like something from the Manchurian Candidate or Harry Potter's little book of spells: say it or write it and it happens.

If the mechanism for what you're describing has any merit at all, then just on the basis of this site alone - which is read by 10s of 1000s of people and has a comparative word count to decades worth of Independents or Daily Mails - then the world will be full of things triggered by key words from this site alone: whether it was people acting like vampires through to people going government-crazy and preparing to take down NWO.

The reality is that none of this happens or rather so little of it that's it's negligible. So if this site doesn't have the power to directly affect people's behaviour, why not. What's so special about particular newspapers and so on?

The Independent is read all over the world, and the online edition is also read all over the world. The Daily Mail has been bought by over 2 million people daily, with a printed copy readership of over 5 million. The website www.dailymail.co.uk attracts 29 million unique users per month, at this time.

[edit on 18-10-2009 by TheDailyPlanet]

So, 29 million unique users per month, which isn't that scalable due to obvious limits in market readership, is a big number. And that's one web site! Think of all the other news outlets that are accessed by, for example English readers!

However, despite your Chicken Little take on this whole story, how many knife attacks are there, even in these apparently knife-crazed times? Even if a dozen people are getting knifed to death every day in England, which is incredibly unlikely, in a 30 day month that's 360 people a month.

Now that 29 million people will be worldwide unique hits which reduces the relevance to our English sample base. However, at the same time, you've then got to factor in all the other media outlets that the news-hungry English get access too: all those free papers, print-based Sun, Times, Independent, Guardian, Express, Telegraph, Mirror, Star and so on and then all the on-line variants that non-dead tree readers peruse. Factor in all that and the numbers start racking up astronomically.

If thisis orchestrated and intentional and some sinister plot to get us all to stab ourselves to death, then it's so inefficient it's frankly laughable. It would be more efficient driving round in a big van at night and just dragging people off the streets and making them 'disappear'.

While I agree with the statement, that a sword attack in the US is unlikely related to the headline of a British newspaper, I concur, that the rising knive-violence may be influenced by fiction and non-fiction media coverage of certain events.

Some people reading health-magazines will suddenly detect symptoms for in the magazine described diseases.
Many girls reading lifestyle-magazines will become dissatisfied with their bodies and will develop harmful eating disorders.
We ATS readers are influenced by the thoughts and articles resented here and may change our world view.
Constant mentioning of a certain kind of violence as a way to solve problems, may very will incite violent behaviour in the future. The best example for this is the Rwandan Genocide.

The state-owned newspaper Kangura had a central role, starting an anti-Tutsi and anti-RPF campaign in October 1990. In the ongoing International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda, the individuals behind Kangura have been accused of producing leaflets in 1992 picturing a machete and asking "What shall we do to complete the social revolution of 1959?" - a reference to the Hutu revolt that overthrew the Tutsi monarchy and the subsequent politically orchestrated communal violence that resulted in thousands of mostly Tutsi casualties and forced roughly 300,000 Tutsis to flee to neighboring Burundi and Uganda. Kangura also published the infamous "10 Hutu Commandments," which regulated all dealings with Tutsis and how Hutus are to treat them, and generally communicated the message that the RPF had a devious grand strategy (one feature article was titled "Tutsi colonization plan").[10]

en.wikipedia.org...

I'm sorry I seriously disagree.

Why the # would anyone want to kill a woman with a sword anyway?

What you find is that this is just an unheard of occurence now, and before, it's occurence was really rare anyway.

This is a very serious affair, and it's real.

What you find is that the Independent was or is an international newspaper. You print a sodding picture like this and it's blatantly obvious that it planted the seed for this particular murder.

The "crossing the line" point is defined by common sense, and a little bit of close analysis. Motive is unknown, and it's up to the newspaper editor to come on here and defend his position, if clearly he doesn't want to end up put inside.

Do you have any proof that the picture lead to the murder of a woman?
People have been killed by swords for thousands of years, in every country.

The proof, was the homicide - I understand it was a real murder, and the onus would be on the Independent to prove otherwise when reading the information of this thread. The Editor has been trying harder recently but it was certainly a tragic day when that printed edition of the Independent came out, and the (I think) resultant murder was reported in the reuters newsfeed etc.