Can ATS contribute more to ufology?

I don't think many people would disagree with my view that the pace of progress within ufology is slow (if, indeed, any real progress has been made in the last 60 or so years).

Can the members of ATS contribute more to the pace of progress?

I think so.

In my opinion, various factors relating to the users of ATS (particularly the sheer number of visitors to ATS, the apparent energy and the range of skills that some members possess) as well as some technical factors relating to ATS (e.g. ease of tagging threads, the currently disabled wiki linked to the forums, and the various attempts to allow users to rate the importance of individual threads and posts e.g. flags) mean that ATS and its members have a lot of potential for contributing to ufology.

Do I think ATS is perfect? Heck no.

Do I get frustrated with some of the content of ATS? Yes, indeed.

During the last year or so, I have been preparing some posts putting forward a few ideas of my own which might help ATS make a more significant contribution to ufology (and developing a few tools which might help some of the members of ATS).

Some of the problems that I perceive are:

(a) the gap between posts in the forums and knowledge which can be found (with a bit of work) in various books.

(b) posts being made by people that haven't found relevant material that is available on some of the better UFO websites.

(c) the regular appearance of certain debunked photos of "aliens" and videos of "UFOs" despite clear evidence that the relevant material is hoaxed.

(d) many members of ATS seem to have a large amount of energy and technical knowledge (e.g. regarding creating websites), but lack a detailed knowledge of the history of ufology which could be useful in guiding their energy. On the other hand, some of the individuals that I know with a detailed knowledge of the history of ufology lack the time, energy or technical knowledge to share their knowledge and insight in an efficient manner.

Before I post my own thoughts and suggestions (which still require my finding quite a bit more spare time to finally get some tools ready to share with others - and time is limited due to work and family commitments...), I would be very interested in hearing any thoughts of other members of ATS on:

(1) the real problems in relation to ufology;

(2) what more (if anything) the members of ATS can do to address those problems;

(3) whether (and, if so, how) links with the wider ufo "community" could be improved.

Please post any thoughts that occur to you (including, if you think it is the case, that everything in relation to ufology/ATS is already perfect...).

Kind Regards,

Isaac

Personally Im sick of debating their existence.

They are here. People have seen them for like forever in the skies. There is tons of evidence everywhere. Can we move on from discussing weather or not they exist?

Im not spending my time explaining this basic fact to any more people. They can do their own research. Its not my job to convince anyone.

What Im interested in is what their purpose is. But people seem to get stuck on debating their existence for FOREVER.


[edit on 17-10-2009 by Copernicus]

I subscribe to everything you said Isaac. I also completely agree with the major problems you list in your post, I find myself battling them every day here on ATS.

I will be very interested in reading your suggestions in the near future. The forum and ufology desperately need all the help they can get.

I think there should be some better topics on here, such as the science of flying saucers, magnetic propulsion theory, dimensional folding, etc...I dont think we should lose the "shiny orb seen over washington with youtube video" threads, they are amusing but overall they dont really progress anything.

So, theres people that simply want to see ET, there are some that want to find a new religion, and there are people whom would like to have tech associated with intergalactic travellers.

There are rich people in here, scientists, lurking politicians, celebs (when their not loving angels instead :-P ), inventors, etc...and if enough people participate with discussions about the science and bring up underground sources of work done and theories presented, there may be a few people in here that can tinker enough and get some working models.

Long ago I was heavily interested in nanotechnology and was attempted to set up a database and forum for all particle physics professors and nanotechnologists around the world to discuss research and work together..long story short the website never got published for several reasons, but the concept was good nevertheless.

reply to post by IsaacKoi


I agree absolutely.

One of the major problems I see is that there's a great deal of pointless bitching on sceptic vs. believer threads. I think it's an interesting enough discussion but in the (roughly) ten months I've registered here I've seen the exact same discussion ad nauseum. As a sceptic I try to avoid them. There's zero point, been there, done that. Ostensibly the threads are generated by rabid believers or immature sceptics who feel like poking a bees nest.

Another major problem for me is the question of 'who\what\when\why' when it comes to source material. I know there's a reasonable How should I report a UFO thread, here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

But from a very basic investigative viewpoint it's very frustrating to analyse anything without the four Ws.

What with the advent of Google Maps and the like it's trivial to look up the approximate location of a UFO report, where the location has been given. But in a lot of cases one of the Ws can be crossed off; useful stuff like proximity to flight paths (or lack of proximity), how densely populated the area is, and whether there were reports made independently can be checked with Google etc.

I think there should be a checklist of online places to check once the the Where is established, such as forums, blogs and social networking. Blogs and forums can often be searched with Google's Blog Search. That's how I found some of the independent reports in the 1000ft UFO thread.

More rigour, and conformance to an investigative process. Rather than people immediately forming a judgement, which goes for believers or sceptics. For me, it's a puzzle and about the pleasure of finding stuff out, regardless of the outcome. A mundane outcome is just as satisfying as a WTF .

One MAJOR cool thing could be having designated forum members who liaise with UFO groups in each country.

Originally posted by jackphotohobby
One MAJOR cool thing could be having designated forum members who liaise with UFO groups in each country.

I too would like to see this - or at least a discussion of possible ways of improving links with such groups.

While there may be some practical problems with the precise an approach mentioned in your email (e.g. the high turnover of some forum members), that is the sort of thing I have in mind.

A somewhat different approach (and perhaps one that might appeal more to the owners of ATS) to the issue of improving such links would, perhaps, be for some of the better known UFO groups to be invited have one of their representatives participate on ATS. Rather than just a general invitation to join, it could be suggested that turns be taken with a thread being created in relation to a particular group or its projects. For example, the first such thread could be for a MUFON representative to discuss an on-going research project with that representative inviting/challenging members of ATS to come up with some contributions or insights for that research project.

Some of the ideas I have in mind are quite simple (such as the invited-representative threads outlined above), but some are a bit more time-consuming...

All the best,

Isaac

[edit on 17-10-2009 by IsaacKoi]

Ah come on man. This is a public forum. You're going to have the bickering and the redundant posting no matter what you say or do. It's a huge forum with thousands and thousands of members and human nature forces these things. Unfortunately, there are some who use this site for amusement only and some who you use it as amusement at the expense of others. That's just a fact of internet. You sound like it's personally affecting you. I used to get real P Od about that stuff too. The best thing you can do is keep on truckin, ignoring the redundancy or garbage and try to read through as much as you can. You never know where you may come across something that is revealing to you. Sometimes while going through a redundant thread I may read what someone posted and it jives with something I've seen also. It's merely a matter of sifting through what isn't important until you find whatever you're looking for.
I wish we had concrete proof too. But until we do, it's gonna have to be "Hey guys check out this UFO vid from Somalia!"

reply to post by IsaacKoi


One thing that would be nice is to get a noted researcher to post articles here, such as Stanton Friedman or someone of his stature. Jim Marrs frequently posts here on his subjects, which helps as he has much to back up what he states.

That may put some needed respectability here, as many who first visit tend to notice the far out stories and claims first.

Mr Friedman is in his 70s and has a big schedule, so maybe they can find a director of MUFON or some other group write an article to help keep us updated.

How about creating a serious research section that you have to apply to get into which is beyond the current realm of secret sections afforded by points earned alone. I know. Exclusivity. To heck with that. Create a rudimentary application process by which the intended can state background knowledge in the field, their viewpoint by which they choose to voice from (religious, metaphysical, paranormal, all) and what they can contribute to the field or specific cases.

This would help to weed out the riff raffy, fringey stuff which would still have free reign of the rest of ATS to speculate ad infinitum about whatever their hearts desire. Also their would have to be full transparency on all updates of current findings of researchers that can be speculated on and ruminated over and critiqued. Thusly, based on that research and other non-fringe research sources that have been widely accepted in the field, a would-be researcher could still study and apply if they wanted to be in the research section.

The review board for application acceptance would have to be composed of fellow peers that have been selected by ALL to be on the board for a limited term in that board position. This too would be through a similar application process submitted to the ATS Faculty (owners, moderators, etc.) and then those who are accepted by whatever criteria they decide is fair are then presented to the general membership populace for a voting period of a predetermined time.

It's a little political but again, it would separate the signal from the noise for sure.

Just my two cents,

Erik

reply to post by IsaacKoi


I think that's a better idea than mine - avoids single points of failure introduced by having individuals designated as liaisons.

I'm really not up to snuff in judging which UFO investigating groups focus on investigating rather than proving personal theories. I was impressed that MUFON disregarded the New Jersey hoax (unlike many others, who reinforced it).

I know BUFORA used to come up a lot in the UK through Jenny Randles in the media, but mediawise haven't seen much of them for years:

www.bufora.org.uk...

According to their Wikipedia page they've had less interest since widespread use of the internet:

en.wikipedia.org...

So your idea could actually be very positive for such groups by increasing their online presence and interactions with the public, and be a win-win situation.

Kind-of impressed with ASSAP's UFO page and witnesses pages:

www.assap.org...
www.assap.org...

I don't know enough about any of the groups to judge, but helping out on a forum like this would be great free advertising, and could help them long term.

Edit: Changed Jersey to New Jersey.
Edit 2: Added ASSAP witnesses page in addition to their UFO gallery.

[edit on 17-10-2009 by jackphotohobby]

I don't really care that aliens are there or not. I've seen my own ufo with my gf and friend and it was awesome so I know they exist. However, I think the issue is in my opinion that people want them to come save us and I want us to save us. No one wants to take care of someone else and we should be able to take care of ourselves. Who knows how advanced out technology really is. If you can beleive Bill Cooper or The Law of One, then we already have the means to live a balanced and abundant life with nature and people; without money or debt. Thats what I want people to realize. We don't need more on ufology as much as we need more people continuously and utterly on the same page everywhere. Once we can stop the bickering and get our focus right on the things that matter most. Then maybe the ones that are already watching will make their appearance. While on the topic though if we were going to contribute to ufology I think like large amounts of people should go to the different "aliens bases" underground or (D.U.M.B.s) and see what they come up, best way to come up with undeniable right there. I personally would be down to go I live in Nevada for anyone interested on the west coast, just saying.

Originally posted by spinalremain
Ah come on man. This is a public forum. You're going to have the bickering and the redundant posting no matter what you say or do. It's a huge forum with thousands and thousands of members and human nature forces these things. Unfortunately, there are some who use this site for amusement only and some who you use it as amusement at the expense of others. That's just a fact of internet.

I have to agree with you.
Being public and opened to everyone, we sure have honest or perfidious posters, young/playfull or old, intelligent or moron, very knowledgeable or very ignorant, we have different real interests or interest$$ behind a statement or lobby, finally we will have a large mixture. And nobody can clear the mix, unless becoming a dictator censoring things and getting protests. Good things emerge from forums from time to time, but, as a reader, you must be very experienced to make out the real from the noise and fantasy. It's a reflection of human nature in the full spectrum.

In the end, in this mix, everybody will find his food for his brain. Can't have quality where the average is low.



[edit on 17/10/09 by depthoffield]

Originally posted by spinalremain
Ah come on man. This is a public forum. You're going to have the bickering and the redundant posting no matter what you say or do. It's a huge forum with thousands and thousands of members and human nature forces these things. Unfortunately, there are some who use this site for amusement only and some who you use it as amusement at the expense of others. That's just a fact of internet.

I have no problem whatsoever with people coming to ATS just for entertainment. But some members clearly put a lot of time and effort in. The point of my post was simply to stimulate discussion of ways in which the efforts that are already being expended could be harnessed to make more a contribution to the wider ufological community. This would be a two way street - by improving links, more material would also be made available to ATS members.

Maybe I'm just naive and overly-optimistic, but I like to think that activities within ufology (and on ATS in particular) will eventually make some contribution to the sum of human knowledge...

Some of the other things I had in mind are simply some search tools (more on these soon) - which would not seek to reduce the amount of amusement gained from using ATS.

Heck, my own "mood" status on ATS profile has been set to "amused" for the past couple of years.

All the best,

Isaac

[edit on 17-10-2009 by IsaacKoi]

Originally posted by depthoffield
I have to agree with you.
Being public and opened to everyone, we sure have honest or perfidious posters, young/playfull or old, intelligent or moron, very knowledgeable or very ignorant, we have different real interests or interest$$ behind a statement or lobby, finally we will have a large mixture. And nobody can clear the mix, unless becoming a dictator censoring things and getting protests. Good thing emerge from forums from time to time, but, as a reader, you must be very experienced to make out the real from the noise and fantasy. It's a reflection of human nature in the full spectrum.

In the end, in this mix, everybody will find his food for his brain. Can't have quality where the average is low.

I may be mistaken but I don't think anyone has called for a ban on such discussions.

For me there is a big difference between a sceptic vs. believer argument in a thread that is actually about UFOs - and a sceptic vs. believer thread just about sceptics vs. believer (or vice-versa). A sceptic vs. believer argument in a thread about UFOs arguing details is good, but a thread just about sceptic vs. believers is boring and adds nothing. I don't think a ban on such discussions would be right, but I do think informally discouraging sceptic vs. believer threads which are only about sceptics vs. believers would be helpful.

edit: spelling and grammar.


[edit on 17-10-2009 by jackphotohobby]

Originally posted by jackphotohobby
I may be mistaken but I don't think anyone has called for a ban on such discussions.

I certainly was not calling for a ban on any discussions - merely seeking to stimulate debate about making discussions more productive and reaching beyond current members of ATS to the wider ufo "community".