Israel's Government shows its True Colours

Originally posted by john124
Does any of the Israel haters realise that at all:

The assembly lacks the power to force any war crimes prosecutions without the support of the UN Security Council, and the US has already used its power of veto many times in the past to protect Israel from similar sanction.

The resolution makes no mention of Palestinian violence against Israelis, such as the eight years of rocket attacks from Gaza against southern border communities.

Goldstone - the author of the report was saddened by the bias of the draft resolution.

This biased draft resolution is a farce that will never be supported by the UN security council. This will rightfully be vetoed!

[edit on 17-10-2009 by john124]

First off I'm not a Israel hater, second I agree with you that it is biased because of the fact that its an investigation into ISRAEL's war crimes during the war. Its not an investigation into both sides which it really should be however this does not detract from the fact that these atrocities happened now does it?? And you would be happy if it was vetoed and swept under the carpet?

reply to post by kcfusion


The draft resolution falsely represents events, therefore it should be vetoed. Another more appropriate and unbiased draft resolution should be drawn up.

People justify Israel's actions by saying they have a right to defend themselves, and they do, but so do the Palestinians. People want to bring up suicide bombings, rocket attacks, etc, (without question these are all deplorable acts) as Israel's justification; but how many people address Hamas' or other Palestinian motivations? You have people cut off, Israel controls all goods moving into and out of Palestine, imposing a level of poverty on the Palestinians through force. They have been fenced in so their ability to move around is restricted. Israel says it's done to prevent terrorism, but what they fail to realize is that they're trying to treat the symptoms, not the cause.

This brings us to the fact that Palestinians are being thrown out of their homes to make way for Jewish settlements. Even if their is some deeper idealogical reason, Hamas will continue to claim this as their main provocation. Tossing people out of their home is unjustifiable, it can't be claimed that it is for Israel's security or an act of self-defense; but the Israeli government continues to do it, then they play the victim when someone gets pissed and retaliates.

How would you feel if you were forced to live under these circumstances? Say an armed group throws you and your family out of your home, bulldozes it, and builds a home for someone else. You would most likely seek some legal recourse, but what if there was none? What if they totally rebuked your pleas for a redress of your grievances? How would you react then?

A reasonable person knows what happens when you back any living thing into a corner, eventually they will attack you to break free. So would it be better to understand why they attacked you, or should you start poking them with a stick, expecting a different result?

If they wanted to undermine any civilian support for Hamas, shouldn't they try to win the 'hearts and minds' of the Palestinians? Backing them farther into a corner will not win Israel any fans.

The cornerstone of the US Special Forces counter-insurgency doctrine is to undermine the insurgency, not through overwhelming force, but by helping the civilian populace. In Viet Nam it was about protecting villages from intimidation by VC, digging wells, basically just trying to improve the Vietnamese people's standard of living. They were actively seeking to remove any reason for civilians to join or support the VC; but as the bombs fell and people were killed and their homes destroyed at the hands of the US military, the insurgency grew. Israel should take a lesson from our failure.

I also think it is hypocritical for the Israeli government to seek action against nations like Iran by way of the UN, only to thumb their noses at them when Israel itself is called out. They want to have their cake and eat it too.

Originally posted by sueloujo
israel resorting to its usual blackmail tactics? It really is wearing rather thin. This was a war that we all could watch via the internet on a daily basis. We all saw with our own eyes what they did. It is not just that war either..it is the daily torture that Israel inflict on that nation too.

I'm not trying to defend Israel, and let the blame go where you want. BUT, How many times have everyone seen the Palestenians strap a bomb on a young teenager, and blow themselves up in a crowded restuarant, not trying to kill other soldiers, but trying to kill women and children. Does that make what Israel does or doesn't do right?? No, but stop trying to make out like the Palestenians are some kind of noble freedom fighter. Please--if they were only trying to fight the Israeli army, I could sympathize with them, but the killing of innocents in a shopping mall or restuarant, doesn't do anyones cause justice.

You mentioned that all could watch on the internet each day what the Israelies did. I also saw the aftermath of a suicide bomber in a restuarant over and over---so what's your point. ?? Each side will see things as they want, and there is plenty guilt to go around on both sides.

Only solution I know of. Either both sides tie, both sides win(peace, which would be very difficult), or if both sides became so consumed in their hatred for each other that they both lost and got destroyed. I would perfer if both sides won by peace but unfortunately that might never happen.

Originally posted by OutlanderHuman24
Only solution I know of. Either both sides tie, both sides win(peace, which would be very difficult), or if both sides became so consumed in their hatred for each other that they both lost and got destroyed. I would perfer if both sides won by peace but unfortunately that might never happen.

Here Here well said my friend!!

I could not agree with you more!

reply to post by kcfusion


Thank you. If there is a war and you want to be bluntly unbiased, in my opinion these are the only options of thinking that you can have.

reply to post by mrpotatohead


Yes your right it's deplorable.

But remember when Sherie Blair (Senior Barrister and Wife of Tony Blair, ex UK prime minister, soon to be President of Europe) went to Palestine to see for herself the situation. She said that the plight of the Palestinians was so bad she could understand why they would become suicide bombers.

Originally posted by OutlanderHuman24
reply to post by kcfusion

 

Thank you. If there is a war and you want to be bluntly unbiased, in my opinion these are the only options of thinking that you can have.

Precisely! Its a pity that no one seems to want to step up to the plate and be the bigger man. Instead all that is accomplished is perpetual violence, destruction and death, with either side determined to "win" by any means possible. Choosing to ignore history they both plunge forward in hatred. Of course at the same time we must accept the fact that there is other agenda's at play and the Zionist Israeli Government is an extremely powerful regime!

Originally posted by bigyin
She said that the plight of the Palestinians was so bad she could understand why they would become suicide bombers.

And if you subject some of the pro-Israeli American rednecks to the Palestinians' plight, I can only imagine how they would react to it here in the US.

reply to post by bigyin


I would agree that the Palistenians live in deplorable conditions. At some point, they need to stop blaming everyone else, and shoulder some responsibility for themselves. I seem to remember after the death of Yasser Arafat, there was the talk of the millions and millions he had, while his fellow citizens lived in squalor. Seems to me a couple million would have made a big difference in their lives.

Also, if your leadership continuosly supports terrorism, you get what you deserve. Yes, there is two sides to the story, but untill the Palenstinians can stop with suicide bombings of civilian tagets, using their own children, I have no sympathy for those people.

reply to post by john124


War Crime

War crimes are "violations of the laws or customs of war"; including "murder, the ill-treatment or deportation of civilian residents of an occupied territory to slave labor camps", "the murder or ill-treatment of prisoners of war", the killing of hostages, "the wanton destruction of cities, towns and villages, and any devastation not justified by military, or civilian necessity".

International Criminal Court 2002

On July 1, 2002, the International Criminal Court, a treaty-based court located in The Hague, came into being for the prosecution of war crimes committed on or after that date. However, several nations, most notably the United States, China, and Israel, have criticized the court and refuse to participate in it or to permit the court to have jurisdiction over their citizens. Note, however, that a citizen of one of the 'objector nations' could still appear before the Court if they were accused of committing war crimes in a country that was a state party, regardless of the fact that their country of origin was not a signatory.

They don't want to join something which gives them no Veto So Israel follows because Israel needs its dady's Veto

I bet if America gets that special advantage over other countries (hence VETO) you would see it running towards the treaty, Israel trailing lol.

Originally posted by mamabeth

Originally posted by InfaRedMan



Those who stand with Israel are going straight to hell! Do not pass 'GO', do not collect $200!

IRM

So,anyone who supports Israel is going to hell?
This is why I added you to my foe/prayer list.

You just don't get it do you! LOL! I merely repeated this guys sentiments and subtext back at him.

Originally posted by wouldu
All said and done, those who stand against israel will be judged

So lets spell it out for those who seem to be having problems with their comprehension shall we... ok...

Those who stand against Israel will be judged. Israelis/Jews think they are gods children. Those 'against' gods children aren't going to heaven now are they! They will be 'judged'... ergo we are going to hell. Kind of self explanatory really.

It's sad you guys have an aversion to recognizing your own faults. No wonder religion has doomed the middle east... and probably the rest of us too!

And please... do not pray for me. I find that attitude to be somewhat condescending... You are not above me and I do not need to be prayed for like a lost little sheep. Give those sentiments to someone else please.

If anyone needs to be prayed for, it's those who blindly support Israels systematic genocide of the Palestinian people. You have your poles reversed!

IRM

[edit on 17/10/09 by InfaRedMan]

reply to post by InfaRedMan


I don't read every post on the threads because of foul language and slang
terms.
What I have read convinces me I am right.I will always support Israel and
her people.The rest I leave up to God,everything is in His hands.

Originally posted by mamabeth
I will always support Israel and her people.

No matter what?

Originally posted by mamabeth
I don't read every post on the threads because of foul language and slang
terms.

Do you get offended when people use foul language in a foreign language, that you can't understand?

My point is, you are the only one responsible for being offended at foul language. The people who say it like it is nothing, they are onto something, because the words are no longer even offensive to them, and there is no good reason for them to be. You perpetuate the problem by choosing to be offended by them. But that's neither here nor there.

I will always support Israel and
her people.

Even if they have a Muslim Holocaust? You would support that?

The rest I leave up to God,everything is in His hands.

Once again, we see that it's the Christians who are pushing the warmongering, with their religious convictions that Israel must bring the end of the world.

reply to post by bsbray11



There are rules against using foul language on this forum in case you
didn't know that.
I still support Israel and nothing will change my mind!

Originally posted by mamabeth
There are rules against using foul language on this forum in case you
didn't know that.

No, I am well aware, but it isn't my fault. They use "foul language" on the news in other countries. All in the eye of beholder.

I still support Israel and nothing will change my mind!

So you would support a Muslim Holocaust if Israel committed it.

Can you see how blinding and in-compassionate religion makes people yet?

If it weren't for religion, Israel and Muslims wouldn't be having such a fit, anyway. They all really need to just grow up.

Same for anyone who takes offense at words but sees nothing wrong with killing so many people...

[edit on 18-10-2009 by bsbray11]

A Gazan jounalist speaks out from Gaza, we do not get to hear from ordinary people very often.

This is just a few days old

www.youtube.com...

If anyone knows how to embed this please do

This isn't blackmail. This is pragmatism.

Israel gave Gaza autonomy in 1993. Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. The Israeli government uprooted towns and villages and made thousands of people homeless in order to achieve this. Jews, not Palestinians. Many of those people are still homeless.

Israel is a country. As a country, a certain amount of land falls within its borders. Some people that live in that land want independence. They don't want to be part of Israel, they want their own country.

Israel's stance is, and always has been, if you want us to give you land then you have to negotiate. You have to play nice, and you have to convince us that once you have your own state you'll run it responsibly and you won't attack us from it. Until you start doing that, we'll continue to build homes on OUR land.

Now compare this to Sri Lanka's attitude towards the Tamils and the LTTE, whose claim for independence was just as valid. They were wiped out. But Israel are the nasty ones huh?

Now, what has Hamas in Gaza done to engender such trust? Do you call rocket attacks, border incursions, kidnapping soldiers, ways of engendering trust?

What have Fatah in the West Bank done to engender trust? Stabbed Israel in the back by sponsoring this report?

The UN is creating a situation whereby if the Palestinians ever do get their own state, Israel is not entitled to defend itself from military aggression originating from that State. Given recent history, Israeli politicians would have to be blind, stupid or both to go ahead with such an agreement. It's suicide.

Palestinians have taught Israelis that when Israel concedes land they get punished for it. The UN is teaching Israel that when it responds to that punishment it will get chastised for it.

Instead of berating Israel for every decision they make, ask yourself: What would YOU do?