Universe/Divine

Sorry if I'm getting annoying, but I like to spew opinions. This is the only place where at least one person is nice about it if you don't flame.

Ok here goes...

Think about the universe for a second. It's made up of matter, which is made up of particles.

Where did the universe come from? The scientific theory is the 'Big Bang'. Now let's reflect on the Big Bang theory for a second. Big object, matter all packed together, right? Ends up exploding, creating the universe.

Well where did the matter come from? Could it just 'exist'? Could it have always been?

Even Einstein said that matter can not be created from nothing.

Now to many, this is where god comes in. They think that god created the universe, or at least started the big bang.

But how could god always exist? Maybe God is the everlasting conundrum/paradox of existance. Maybe it is not a consious being.

more later...

[Edited on 20-2-2003 by joehayner]

At this point, science says "not enough evidence to determine anything." There's a number of theories, and some of them get pretty esoteric.

Point of fact is that we couldn't DISprove that the universe was created by a large pink unicorn. Or Stitchin's Zetan aliens. Or Cosmic Dwarves. Or Jehovah. Or the Goddess and her Consort.

All of those are equally likely.

"Think about the universe for a second. It's made up of matter, which is made up of particles."

You are stopping short. Particles are made up of tinier particles called quarks, which MIGHT be made up of vibrating strings... which might be made up of something else (perhaps you'll know after I publish a paper ). Also, don't forget that matter can be transformed into energy and (as believed) vice verse.

"Where did the universe come from?

Better question: Does it matter? Like Byrd says, perhaps it comes from a large pink unicorn. "From what" is not as important as "why." If my only answer to your question is, "from within," what would you begin to believe about the universe and yourself?


"The scientific theory is the 'Big Bang'. Now let's reflect on the Big Bang theory for a second. Big object, matter all packed together, right? Ends up exploding, creating the universe."

No. The big bang started with a tiny object, perhaps smaller than an atom. This particle was extremely dense and its internal heat and pressure built up until it exploded (and perhaps imploded). This point was a type of singularity, like those found in black holes. If this theory is current, it is responsible for the "matter" and "antimatter" in the universe. The creation of energy, on the otherhand, is not so clear, from what I understand. The problems with dark matter and dark energy cloud our understands of the "big picture."

"Well where did the matter come from? Could it just 'exist'?"

It comes from the Big Bang or the division of energy (perhaps). It does exist, but "existence" is not a real quality. Think about it. You have a pencil. The pencil is light weight, made of wood, 7 inches long, has an eraser, and is yellow. Now you have a second pencil that is light weight, made of wood, 7 inches long, has an eraser, is yellow, and exists. You can picture both the one that exists and the one that doesn't exist. This makes existence a rather odd quality, if you can even define it in the normal sense of a quality. Also, if you say that one pencil exists, you are not stating that the other pencil does not exist. On top of all of that, just because something doesn't exist here or now, doesn't mean it won't or can't exist somewhere at some time. The only things that cannot exist are those that go against a pre-formed definition (i.e. a square circle).

"Could it have always been?"

When looking at whether something has always existed, we must ask, "in what form?" Also, we must ask what is the actual definition of existence for something that was never created (having always existed).

"Even Einstein said that matter can not be created from nothing."

They think he may have been wrong, bringing up the spontaneous creation of matter and antimatter particles. Of course, he is probably still right, but most people don't understand why he made such a statement without any proof leaning towards either side of the argument.

"Now to many, this is where god comes in. They think that god created the universe, or at least started the big bang."

Very probably, but not necessary. The existence of God/god does not rest on this fact, however. I'm sure you can conceive of another "high" being creating a universe to work, but that being does not have to be the ALMIGHTY being. You may put together an ant farm, but an ant walking around the farm might assume you are God when you are not. This only makes you an important figure in the process of creation and/or development.

"But how could god always exist? Maybe God is the everlasting conundrum/paradox of existance. Maybe it is not a consious being."

Who says you have not always existed in some form or another? You could just be a spiritual being having a human experience. Can you not conceive of that idea? There is actually a book dedicated to that idea (at least one). Again, existence needs to be defined for different types of ideas and beings... which probably will bring up a problem where a single definition will not suffice. Maybe you are a paradox of existence. If God is not a conscious being then He could not be as evolved as we are. This causes ideological paradoxes, so we'll stay away from that one.

"more later... "

That is a temporal (timely) question, assuming time exists.

But how can somthing be made from nothing?

Could energy have always existed, if so, can you made matter from energy, like you can make energy from matter?

Could energy be created from nothing? I heard somwhere that "free-energy" is possible.

"But how can somthing be made from nothing?"

Is the space between you and your computer screen empty? No. We have oxygen, water molecules, light rays (electromagnetic radiation), and a whole slue of odd molecules and natural allergens. A fish might say, "There is no water." Of course, we know that they swim in the stuff. The same may be the case for us as humans. Who can say whether there really is "nothing" anywhere? We know there are gobs of antimatter particles, subatomic masses, free elements, gases, dark matter, dark energy, etc floating out in space. Those are just the things that we do know of. There is a good chance that there is no such thing as "nothing," just merely a place that is less dense.

Let's look at it from a different aspect, assuming you don't like the former. Have you ever had an idea? Where did that idea come from? Let's say you had an idea for a table. The idea may be housed in your brain, but who told your brain to think up a new table? You might say that the idea came from nothing. You just thought of it. That answer isn't very scientific, but that doesn't make it a false assumption either.

"Could energy have always existed, if so, can you made matter from energy, like you can make energy from matter?"

E/c^2=m

I'd say yes. We actually believe it happens all the time at the level of quarks (which make up protons and neutrons). In order for a quark to find its own form of equilibrium with its environment, it will borrow energy from the surrounding area to complete its form. Tests are being done right now to see if complete atoms can be made from the conversion of energy. It is scientifically possible. You never "make" energy or matter, due to the law of conservation of energy. You only transform what is already out there into something new. Thus matter breaks down into energy and energy (possibly) builds up into matter.

"Could energy be created from nothing? I heard somwhere that "free-energy" is possible."

Free-energy is the concept of either a black hole's zeropoint or the use of magnetic energy to swing objects in a constant motion, thus expending energy without continuously adding any extra. Both theories are not mathematically friendly, but not necessarily impossible. I believe you are mistaking the term "energy" for "power." Free energy is actually a way to generate free power for the masses, if possible. Power is, of course, related to energy.

just a very quick point

I think Tesla did a huge amount of research on free energy and came up with some very interesting conclusions.

I believe Arc is correct. Tesla had a lot of work that was supposedly "secret," but we don't know who is telling the truth and who is lying. I've read things on scalar physics that Tesla is more well known for. He would be a good man to look into if you want specifics.

I am providing a site, to be taken with a grain of salt, that has things on Tesla and other things that have been discussed. You might find it interesting. Enjoy.

users.rcn.com...

Sorry, havn't replied in a while, forgot to.

Anyway, what I was trying to say was; was there a time when there was nothing, or did somthing always exist? Was energy or matter created, or was it always there, just in different forms?

I know it's not possible to prove either of these, but I'd still like your opinions.

As far as we know, a singularity has always existed. The Big Bang had to come from somewhere and it is believed that a singularity is responsible for this one.

Energy and matter have always been there, just in different forms. As I understand it, the singularity that caused the big bang was the size of an atom, but held all of the material that now fills the universe (that we know of).

the way you are talking about matter might be incorrect. tiny particles vibrate back and forth so quickly it gives humans the perception of matter. we percieve things really slowly. and we can recreate the big bang 1/100th of a second after it started, thanks to what we have found with particle accelerators. what happened in that first 1/100th of a second is what physicists are trying to figure out now.
i wish i could answer you on where the energy came from to create the make up of the universe. but from how i see it IF there was a beginning of time that would mean that there is something outside of time to create the universe. trying to think about it goes in circles. where did that come from, where did THAT come from.. etc. so to me it makes more sense that there is no beginning or end. but that all time encompasses itself. and whatever is the underlying energy of the universe has been here forever according to our understanding of time. i wish i understood more to be able to help you out.
a good book that might help is 'the elegant universe' by brian greene.