AP Headline from 2004? "Kenyan-born Obama"

Originally posted by vkey08
reply to post by rnaa

 

I thought there was a dude that proved it was a forgery... You going to try and say all the work he did to try and prove to everyone that it was indeed a real document only to find that it couldn't be was false as well?

It's funny, personally I find there are about 60 or 70 other things that we should vote Obama out of office on notwithstanding this issue. But whenever anyone ever dares question the chosen one, they get called, "wingnuts" "fringe lunatics" or even mentally ill.

I think that in itself speaks more volumes than a document.

Sorry, you thought wrong. No dude proved anything of the kind.

A couple anonymous Internet handles were used to make unfounded, untestable, unsupportable assertions. One self-proclaimed expert used a false name (Ron Polarik) and even a pretend, unsigned, unwitnessed affidavit .

A third, actual expert, with qualifications and everything testified, in court, under oath, that the analyses by these other 'guys' could not possibly be relied on because they were from an online image and not the actual document. Notice that she only testified as to the suitability of the scanned image for analysis; she did not say anything at all about the original document from which the image was scanned. Essentially she said the analyses were totally bogus.

FactCheck has demonstrated the genuineness of the actual document that was scanned to produce the image.

Please review these links:

Barack Obama's Birth Certificate is a Forgery Part 1

Barack Obama's Birth Certificate is a Forgery Part 2

Barack Obama's Birth Certificate is a Forgery Part 3

If you want to vote against Obama because you don't think he is the right man for the job, by all means do so.

But please do us all a favor and don't further this birth certificate nonsense, because that is what it is, nonsense.

reply to post by rnaa


It's all very relevant and while you might in fact be an American citizen you sure aren't running America from your home in Australia friend!

Nor is it probably wise or fair of you to imagine that you could or should.

Government is a business. Not only does it tax and operate on a budget and good governments actually look to profit enough off their activities to stay within their budget but to be able to lower the tax amounts that citizens need to fund it, but it is also meant to cater to the citizens and provide goods and services.

That's a business friend and don't kid yourself it isn't.

Earlier on this page you commented on how Obama's Health Care plan would succeed and save Americans money and give them better service which is pretty amazing considering Obama doesn't even HAVE a health care plan of his own but is trying to see which of five versions authored in the Senate and the House can gain enough popularity for him to sell the idea of National Health Care to the voting populace.

So here is the thing. Not only is it not his plan, not only does he not even have a plan, it's all a theory based on other people's ideas and work that so far none of those have not only not gained much universal popularity amongst their Senate and Congressional Peers let alone the American people but hasn't given the Tax Payers one darn thing as of yet except the bills for expensive town halls where people who don't support an ill defined government overhaul of health care that hasn't been coherently thought out or presented can be labeled as wing nuts by Administration supporters who are in essence supporting nothing but abstract ideas and not tangible results.

The same could be said in regards to an altered photo copied computerized short form birth certificate being posted on third party web sites as being valid legal proof of something rather than show the unaltered long form original document in a constitutional court of law to a legally empowered sitting judge.

You are supporting from your home in Australia no less that Americans who actually have to live in America support a lot of abstract ideas and cheaply offered imitations instead of real services and real actions that aren't just ideas but actually don't have a proven established working track record to prove they are even good ideas.

Not only is government a business it's a business that ultimately people choose to support or not and even to change the type all together.

In reality what you are arguing for is a change in the government system where standards are no longer met, where expectations are no longer met, where private third party businesses substitute for constitutionally empowered branches and offices of government because those things support pie in the sky bankrupting abstract ideas that yield no tangible results but to cost the people money and aggravation.

The reality is that you can't point to one thing Obama has accomplished based on actually accomplishing anything. This is a man who got a Nobel Peace prize for continuing two wars and broadening one!

In fact about the most significant accomplishment he has had so far is to thwart court case after court case in regards to the Birth Certificate issue by hiring dozens of attorneys to deny scores of litigants and the American people the actual truth about where he was born and to whom.

If he had nothing to hide there would be no reason to hide this document or to post altered invalid shortened abbreviated forms of it lacking crucial information in third party venues in what is a transparent attempt to deceive people and to hide the genuine article.

Government is the people's business and the U.S. Government should not be bound by your opinion or mine, but by the Constitution that defines it.

People have a fair right to expect that the Government live up to those Constitutional Expectations. Just as they do that Government be fiscally responsible and responsive to the citizens.

The Government is surely not being fiscally responsible it is trillions of dollars in debt and it is certainly not being responsive to the citizens either by denying them critical information in legal forums about their elected official’s eligibility to hold office.

I know you live in the land down under, but it would seem to me and other posters to this thread you are approaching this issue upside down!

Thanks for being civil and you know what I like you. Even though you put me on your respected foes list I am going to put you on my friends list.

Because as Don Corleone once said keep your friends close but...


[edit on 27/10/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by rnaa
reply to post by Arbitrageur

 

There can be no document in existence that is 'more real'. There can be no document in existence that is more valid.

If that were true, then why would the state of Hawaii keep making statements to say they have ORIGINAL records on file to back it up, such as this statement:

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by rnaa

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by rnaa

 

In fact you can't even point to his real birth certificate.

Its here and here in a simple, rather unsatisfactory image.

Here's what the Wiki source you cited says:

Moreover, the director of her Department has confirmed that the state holds Obama's "original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

And if there isn't more than one type of document, then please explain what this other document the DHHL was talking about when it refers to the "original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green".

www.therightsideoflife.com...

In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL. (snip)

Hawaii Home Lands won’t take it, but Obama insists it certifies him to be Commander-in-Chief.

That "original Certificate of Live Birth" is in fact a different document than the one pictured on Wikipedia, right? And it's the same document that Wikipedia says that Hawaii says it has on file to back up the COLB computer printed out from the computer database. And why would DHHL say that the type of document that Obama submitted "requires additional verification"? Because they said: "original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout)." So please don't say there isn't more than one type of document, and please don't say one type isn't better than the other when that's clearly not the case.

Originally posted by oneclickaway
reply to post by Mak Manto

 

I can't be bothered to watch that again, wasn't it the one with the shouty man? But which version are they showing, version 1, 2 or 3 that they put online? Thing is that even if they plastered them all over the Statue of Liberty, it still would not make it either real or valid.

Why is not real or valid, one click?

It has a stamp of approval, a signature, it's folded.

Where is your Kenyan birth certificate?

OH YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT! EVERY SINGLE ONE YOU BRING IN IS DEEMED FAKE!

reply to post by Mak Manto


Alright, alright let us get down to brass tacks here and lets all do a reality check. It’s true I find anti-Birthers to be cute in their innocent and child like folly and take sadistic delight in just reminding them the basic facts that Obama is spending millions of dollars in dozens of lawsuits and hiring scores of attorneys to suppress the original document and that alone would cause me to be very suspicious.

It’s true also I have not liked any U.S. President except Andrew Jackson. I can respect a man who when his honor is questioned challenges the person questioning it to a duel and unlike the Bankster Alexander Hamilton can actually win the darn thing. I have admired some of our rotten lying Presidents because they were good liars. I have admired some of our rotten manipulating Presidents because they were good manipulators.

I liked Jackson because he did away with Alexander Hamilton’s attempt to start a central national bank. I liked Jackson because when some of the States wanted to secede he talked them out of it with his wit and oratory not with bullets and bombs like Lincoln did. He was an honest man, I am surprised no one assassinated him but then again he was awfully good with a gun and his fists.

The reality is Barack Hussein Obama couldn’t even hold a candle to a man who manned the bulwarks against the British in the battles of the War in 1812 he fought in, courageously fought duels to defend his own personal honor and shut down the first Central Bank because it infringed on the Nation’s Sovereignty and Constitution.

I must confess the only redeeming quality I find in the slightest to be admirable is Mrs. Obama’s White House Garden. I can respect people who take the time to make things grow. Please no one tell me she has the White House Staff water it and destroy this one little comforting illusion in regards to the man’s family who I have no doubt in my mind will go down as the worst President of all time.

Now on to that pesky little online Birth Certificate you rank amateurs have been defrauded by.

First let me explain my qualifications in regards to what I am about to point out to you all. I work with documents of a sensitive nature on a daily basis for financing purposes as someone who assists in the financing of big ticket purchase items that require significant loans.

Through long years of experience I have learned to spot the tell tale signs of alterations and forgery.

First when I say the document being posted on the Internet is invalid that is obvious and the document itself explains why it is obvious. Let us begin by directing our attention to the black box at the bottom center of the document it clearly states as follows:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/33fdbe59a32e.jpg[/atsimg]

ANY ALTERATIONS INVALIDATE THIS CERTIFICATE
Next I shall direct your attention to the upper right hand corner of the document in question and ask you to kindly take note of where it says CERTIFICATE NO.

Notice the black box that has been placed over the Certificate Number? This is called an alteration. This alone invalidates the document and the document itself is evidence of that based on the declaration that any alterations invalidate the document.

There is no way to overcome the first detail that suggests the document is invalid.

Now let us direct our attention to the bottom of the document in the center. You will note that there is a date stamp but there is no raised seal on this document, and you will note that there is no stamp from the State’s Registrar as appears on the example of an actual Hawaiian Birth Certificate from the same form number series which appears in the bottom right hand corner OHSM 1.1 (Rev.11/01).

So in addition to the alteration that invalidates it on the face the Internet Document lacks an official seal and stamp and signature additionally invalidating it.

These are the most obvious things.

The Birth Certificate that people keep pointing to on the Internet as being proof additionally has been created by scanning a real birth certificate and then using photo editing to recreate portions of the document and alter the information on the document.

Because the background of the document is a colored and line patterned one actual original type would not affect the background pattern. If you study the pattern carefully and then go over all the letters that have been typed on to the document you will find numerous occasions where the background pattern has some alterations caused by removing the original type on the birth certificate. You will notice white pixilated areas and black dots where someone has meticulously tried their best to remove the original type and then put new type on top of it. When this is done it sometimes leaves a hole in the background document that skilled and determined forgers try their best to fill in to look like the original background but are unable to precisely line it up.

There are many examples of this occurring on the document but one of the most obvious is the HOUR OF BIRTH 7:24 PM the background has been badly botched and the laser printer printing on a standard background form would not cause those alterations and blemishes to the background or cause it to degrade.

Nor would it cause the tell tale pixels of print being removed carefully from a document with a background to keep alterations from marring the background in obvious tell tale ways to the untrained eye.

Another telltale sign of this occurs on the Hawaiian State Seal at the top of the document towards the bottom of the seal.

This should not be confused with the actual missing raised seal that has not been pressed into this invalid and forged document.

One of the problems with altering and forging official documents is when they contain an imprinted seal which the actual Hawaiian Birth Certificate does or they contain a hologram.

Additionally the entire border of this document has been altered and replaced most likely in an attempt to deal with the margins created by default by the computer that scanned the document by shrinking the actual portion of the document that contains the vital information by moving the borders in so it would look closer to the actual original background paper that has no margins but background edge to edge.

Chances are the actual certificate number was blacked out so no one could pull the file number to determine who the original unaltered document actually belonged to.

Simply put this document is a serious attempt to alter and forge an existing birth certificate but one not conducted by someone truly skilled in the art of forgery.

As someone whose job is to spot forgeries and protect financers and lenders I would give this effort a C. It would fool an employer looking to stuff paperwork into a file to meet Federal Employment Requirements but it would not fool the Secret Service, the FBI or a Judge which is why Obama can’t even afford to be ordered to display the same certificate that he posted online in a court of law, let alone his actual original one, if in fact he even has one.

I have included a picture of Obama’s online Birth Certificate, as well as an example of an actual real unaltered Hawaiian Birth Certificate. Anyone being honest with themselves who isn’t Elmer Fudd can see the differences right away.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7f34c2510c26.jpg[/atsimg]

HowLiberalAreYou.com

Gentlemen and ladies there is no way that the invalid Birth Certificate Fact Check.org posted is a valid Birth Certificate and frankly as a document expert (I am considered not just an expert but a Master by my peers in the field) I can’t believe Fact Check.org allowed this to be posted and to me their credibility as an honest independent organization is in serious question because of it.

Obama has to pay millions of dollars at this point to keep this out of Court because what he has done is actually a crime and the extent of the Fraud he has perpetrated (illegally usurping the office of the Presidency) is one that is not going to net him a slap on the wrist.

That corruption exists within our government is a given. That Hawaii is deliberately choosing it’s words carefully as far as what it says in the Press and isn’t signing or swearing to anything in an official binding statement is also telling.

I want to apologize to you who actually seem to have some kind of hero and idol worship here in regards to Obama.

I know you are all desperately clinging to that illusion and I feel it’s despicable as much as his being elected President has meant to some people, especially minorities in this country that his poor actions and choices are placing those who had hope and faith in him as well as those who continue to want to believe in him that he has done this to you.

The Birth Certificate online is a forgery that has been altered and is likely not even his Birth Certificate that was altered but someone else’s entirely which is why the Certificate Number was covered up.

It’s not out of integrity of false pride or invasion of privacy that Barack Hussein Obama is spending millions of dollars in scores of lawsuits to keep from having to reveal this document or preferably the original long form which would actually denote where he was born and to whom at the time of his birth and not through a subsequently issued document. It is because he doesn’t want to go from being called Mr. President to Federal Inmate 360-281152!

You folks really need to open your eyes!




[edit on 27/10/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

how about that!!!i'm a million dollar nut case!!! i finally have purpose!!!!!!

reply to post by Spectre0o0


I thought you had me on Ignore? some people don't have the courage of their convictions.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Hey that BC looks just like the one posted on factcheck.org!

[edit on 10/27/2009 by whatukno]

reply to post by Arbitrageur


OK, lets define some terms so we are both talking from the same page.

(1) Lets call the piece of paper that the Hospital Filled out and registered with the Hawai'ian Department of Health, "The Vault Document".

(2) Lets call the piece of paper that the Obama Campaign showed to the world and allowed FactCheck.org to handle, "The Obama Document".

(3) Both pieces of paper are "original" in the context of photocopying or scanning.

OK? Not too hard? See how we have restricted the use of the word "original"? That's so we don't confuse things by using it in two different contexts and giving ourselves an excuse to mis-understand each other.

Now then, the information on the Obama Document is faithfully copied from the Vault Document because the Hawai'i State Department of Health says so by printing it on secure paper, embossing the Departmental Seal, and a signature by the legally authorized document custodian.

Both pieces of paper are Real Birth Certificates for all intents and purposes because Hawai'i State Law says so.

Both pieces of paper are Legally Valid Birth Certificates for all intents and purposes because Hawai'i State Law says so.

Because of US Constitutional provisions (and possible additional laws), all States and the Federal Government recognize both documents as legally valid, real, and correct for all intents and purposes.

Because of International Agreements, all foreign government institutions recognize both documents as legally valid, real and correct for all intents and purposes.

Neither is more real than the other. Neither is more valid than the other. The Vault Document contains more information than the Obama Document, but they are both real for all intents and all purposes, and they are both valid for all intents and all purposes.

When you take an original and photocopy it or scan it into a computer, you naturally lose some features of the original, like signatures on the reverse, embossed seals, and security paper, and general handling damage like folds.

The scanned image on Wikipedia lacks all these features and somebody has defaced the serial number so it is clearly not an original document. It has been altered so the disclaimer is activated and the image and any printed piece of paper printed from it is neither a real birth certificate nor a valid birth certficate (though there are plenty of places that would happily accept the photocopy.).

The images at FactCheck.org on the other hand are much more satisfactory than the other simple flat scan. These digital photographs show multiple angles, both front and back that show the existence of all those security features on the original. Of course, these images are not real or valid birth certificates either, and don't pretend to be. They do however show the existence of the security features and the handling damage on the Obama Document.

OK? Still on the same page?

Both pieces of paper are equally real and both pieces of paper are equally legally valid. There is no legal or existential difference between the two.

And the is no other document that rivals these two documents for realness or validity. Not Drivers License. Not Passport.

That is what I mean by nothing more real or valid than the Obama Document. The Vault Document is equally real and valid, but not more.






[edit on 27/10/2009 by rnaa]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


PT, you aren't seriously trying to say anyone, and I mean anyone is claiming that the .JPG (or whatever) image that is reproduced on any number of sites on the internet is itself a 'legally valid' birth certificate?

For crying out loud! Are you really that thick? Because that is exactly what your essay based on. You are fantasizing that image on your computer screen is somehow supposed to be 'the' document.

It is not an electronic document. It is a scan of a real physical document that is the valid birth certificate. And just the fact that the scan is not printed on security paper and you can't feel the bumps of the embossed seal is an alteration that makes the image not a birth certificate, let alone the blacked out serial number.

The document has been reimaged, and published on the internet, complete with serial number in plain sight. And with a demonstration that all security features and the inked signature are there.

The images are scans of a real document. The images are scans of a valid document.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/83c0cb6bb67d.jpg[/atsimg]

The document is, beyond any doubt, legally valid in all States and Territories, with the Federal Government and with all Government Agencies in all countries.

Originally posted by rnaa
The Vault Document contains more information than the Obama Document

I'd say we've made major progress, you've acknowledged there's more than one document and the one Obama didn't present contains more information.

We agree on that much.

By the way it's interesting that Obama wrote he had his (presumably original) birth certificate at one point, so that would be a third document in addition to the other two documents you mentioned. But nobody seems to know what Obama did with his original, for example if he lost it or whatever.

Edit to add source:

james4america.wordpress.com...

On Page 26 of “Dreams of My Father”, Obama writes:

“I discovered this article, folded away among my birth certificate and old vaccination forms, when I was in high school,”

While this brief quote does not state WHAT article it is that Obama found, it does mention that he found it WITH his BIRTH CERTIFICATE. This would have been in the mid 70’s, so this birth certificate would not have been a computer generated document.

[edit on 27-10-2009 by Arbitrageur]

I find it funny, yet tragically sad that this thread is still ongoing.

[facepalm]

reply to post by ThaLoccster


When somebody collects the $100,000 reward by proving Obama is a natural born citizen, I think that will probably kill this thread.

$100,000 offered for proof of eligibility

A man who runs a silver business and offers stock investment advice has announced he's offering a reward of $100,000 for proof meeting that Barack Obama is a "natural born" citizen of the United States

And he says he's glad to pay it if he can see the proof. Maybe there is proof, but if so, apparently nobody but officials in Hawaii has seen it (what rnaa called the "Vault Document"). So the reward remains unclaimed.

reply to post by Arbitrageur

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

Your signature says it all.

You know just as well as I do that there is nothing that can be done that would make birthers go away. No proof will be good enough to show that Obama is indeed a natural born citizen and eligible for the office of the POTUS.

Adequate proof has been offered. There is nothing on the Long Form that is going to shock anyone. The COLB lists the president as being born in Hawaii. If he was indeed born in Kenya and got a birth certificate under the laws of Hawaii, it would list Kenya as the place of birth.

But birthers love to use circular logic, misdirection, ignoring real facts, hoaxes, supposition and rhetoric to try and prove that there is something not quite kosher with the POTUS.

Fact of the matter is, birthers as of yet have not offered any genuine proof that a conspiracy exists. Fact is, birthers have not provided any proof whatsoever that Obama was born anywhere else but Hawaii.

The COLB is prima facie evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii. It's proof positive. Being confirmed by the Department of Health of the State of Hawaii of it being genuine it is a perfectly legal document proving the fact that Obama was born in the state of Hawaii.

But birthers won't believe it, because birthers are too hell bent on trying to remove a POTUS they have ideological issues with.

If birthers could come up with some genuine facts in this matter it might not be such a laughingstock of the conspiracy community.

reply to post by whatukno


you've certainly convinced us that nobody has the right to ask questions about our current president. they never had the right, even during the campaign. any murkiness that surrounds his past is to be interpreted as irrelevant. if anything had been relevant it would have already been discussed and dismisssed by the really important people in the democratic party. anything else is irrelevant. we have a pretty good idea about who his mother was but not so certain about his father, though he took barack obama's name and wrote about him in his memoir, so that's all that's relevant. whatever obama says, is true. never mind that his father was already married so couldn't marry stanley. not relevant. some of the stories in his memoir couldn't have happened the way he told them but never mind. that's irrelevant. whatukno, you've told us in this and many other threads that nothing anybody can say about obama is relevant. any questions are irrelevant. it is touching that you are so deeply loyal to someone whose entire life consists of very few known facts and a large stack of irrelevancies.

unfortunately his inexorable transformation of our country is turning out not to be irrelevant at all. too bad nobody had the right to ask questions.


[edit on 28-10-2009 by earlywatcher]

reply to post by earlywatcher


To question authority is good. But you also have to listen when they answer. They answered your questions.

By all means question every decision he makes as president, it's your constitutional duty to question authority. But when they answer you, does it give you the duty to ask the same question again?

You confuse my stance on this issue as blind devotion to a politician. It's not.

My stance here is that this question has been satisfactorily answered. It's time to move on to other questions. Questions about the economy, questions about foreign affairs, questions about domestic policy, questions about czars doing the jobs of appointed cabinet members. Valid questions requiring the same diligence as people have shown in discussing this issue.

Question authority all you like, just don't ask questions that have already been answered. That's redundant. Using circular logic does not make the same question a new question. Using hoaxes does not make your question a new question. Ignoring the facts does not make your question a new question. It's just redundant.

My stance is, question every aspect of this administration with an open mind on whether or not what they are doing is in the best interests of the American people. If so, be for it, if not be against it. Fact check for yourselves. Don't let FOX, CNN, NBC, CBS etc tell you what to think, find out for yourself.

This question has been answered, debated, and answered again. Time to move on to much more important topics. This one was important, when it was relevant, but once it was answered and confirmed, it's time to look elsewhere for what this man is doing to our country.

Originally posted by whatukno
No proof will be good enough to show that Obama is indeed a natural born citizen and eligible for the office of the POTUS.

Granted some people may not accept anything. But I think it's obfuscation to make the claim that no proof will be good enough, since the petition and the lawsuits have asked to see one document:

Adequate proof has been offered. There is nothing on the Long Form that is going to shock anyone.

Yes, it's the long form that's been requested, by the petition, by the lawsuits, and presumably by the guy offering a $100,000 reward to anyone who can prove Obama is a natural born citizen. You could be right that there's nothing shocking on the long form. Well if that's the case it would be nice if Obama would write a letter to Hawaii officials authorizing them to release it. It may not satisfy everyone but it would shut me up after factcheck.org confirms it's genuine like they did the short form.

So while your comment that no proof is good enough might apply to 5% of birthers, I would guess that releasing the long form would be enough proof for the other 95% of birthers since that is exactly what everyone is asking to see. And if there's nothing shocking on it then it should be no problem to release it.

I'll give you one example:

www.usnews.com...

Robert Schlesinger is a deputy editor at U.S. News and World Report and oversees all opinion editorial content.

He writes:

The questions won’t go away until obama releases his hidden records. All he has to do is make the following official public statement,

"I Barack Obama authorize the State of Hawaii to release and make public all of my records on file."

That's it. Issue over. But he won't because he's a fraud!! Obama knows that millions of citizens want to see it yet he continues to hide it. What and why is he hiding?

And maybe more disturbing is why don't BHO's supporters want to know the whole truth, especially since there's a reward of $100,000 for proof that Obama is a "natural born" citizen of the United States? The answer is that Obama’s very own supporters also know he’s a fraud!

OBAMA, STOP HIDING. SHOW US YOUR LONG FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE AND OTHER RECORDS!!!!!

I quote again: "That's it. Issue over." for him, for me, and I suspect for the vast majority of other supporters of the constitution. So I'm really tired of hearing this "no proof is good enough line" that's BS.

reply to post by Arbitrageur

I quote again: "That's it. Issue over." for him, for me, and I suspect for the vast majority of other supporters of the constitution. So I'm really tired of hearing this "no proof is good enough line" that's BS.

I disagree, I think that showing the long form BC would in fact flame up an already stale argument. Because it would instantly be considered a forgery. I believe the vast majority would just cal it BS and continue with new fervor this insane theory.

Because this entire theory is not about where Obama was born, it's about trying to remove a sitting president that people don't like.

It is not about seeking the truth.

And the people that you suggest are supporters of the constitution are not that at all, in fact they hate the the constitution and everything it stands for. They hate that Obama has rights under the 4th Amendment and want those rights removed for everyone, they hate the 6th Amendment and want those rights removed for everyone. They cannot stand that the constitution actually gets in the way of their quest to remove this president and would trash the constitution in a heartbeat in order to do it. These are not supporters of the Constitution they are in fact the enemies of it.

The constitution does not specifically state that the long form birth certificate is the only article that is acceptable for prima facie of jus soli. It doesn't. But because these enemies of the Constitution don't like that it doesn't say that, they ignore that fact and decry against the Constitution anything that does not fit within their own narrow self deluded concept of what to them is adequate evidence.

These people that you state are supporters of the constitution in fact will burn the constitution just so they can get at a man they don't like. They hate everything the constitution stands for.

reply to post by whatukno
I personally have no agenda to remove Obama from office, and apparently neither does the guy offering the $100,000 reward to anyone who can prove Obama is natural born citizen. He also said he's glad to pay the money and keep Obama in office. We just want to see the proof, that's all.

www.wnd.com...

"Barack Obama claims to have been born in Honolulu Aug. 4, 1961," explained Farah. "His entire constitutional claim to the presidency rests on this premise. Yet, he refuses to release a copy of his long-form birth certificate – the only document that could possibly corroborate his claim. Therefore, in the interest of truth, justice and the Constitution, I am making the extraordinary offer to entice someone to come forward with the facts of his birth – whether it took place in Hawaii or elsewhere."

"And if it turns out that Obama was born in the USA, and my reward helps to keep Joe Biden out of office, and end the controversy, or even highlight the issues of freedom as listed in this e-mail, then I will consider that my money will be well spent," he said.

Maybe some people have another agenda, I can't speak for them. But to claim everyone who wants to see the long form also wants Obama removed from office, is untrue.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


I didn't claim everyone. But that's not the real issue.

The real issue is the constitutionality of a piece of paper.

Birthers want the Long Form BC. assuming to prove once and for all what Obama has been saying from the start. Realistically to harass what must be an old person, the doctor that helped deliver Obama into this world. And if he is dead to scream that Obama had him silenced to keep him from telling the truth.

The constitution does not specifically require the long form birth certificate.

Ill stand by the constitution.

reply to post by whatukno

This question has been answered, debated, and answered again. Time to move on to much more important topics. This one was important, when it was relevant, but once it was answered and confirmed, it's time to look elsewhere for what this man is doing to our country.

Well, if you are bored by whether this unknown man is eligible or is not and is destroying America, then off you go. Go and post on another thread with other ‘more important’ issues. What is stopping you? Why stay here attempting to derail any constructive argument with the same ridiculous questions, assertions and a complete lack of understanding or comprehension of any issue at all, repeated ad nauseam with just a blind assertion that a probably forged colb is evidence of anything whatsoever?
It is beyond me why anyone would bother to post in a thread, either saying…‘why is this thread still going?’…or ‘time to stop this thread.’
For the hard of comprehension…if you don’t like the thread, have no interest in the subject of the thread, feel the thread should stop as it is trivial…then go to another thread. That should be simple enough even for the simple minded.
In the meantime, those who feel this is the single most important issue, will continue to post. I would be so bold as to suggest that they will continue to post for as long as it takes for this man to reveal who he really is. Those who don’t feel this is in any way important, stop reading if it all bores and annoys you to the point of insults. Just go to another thread.
And to the person who will now say ‘I can post anywhere I like’…try reading what has been written, and then take the time to comprehend what is written.

Fact check for yourselves. Don't let FOX, CNN, NBC, CBS etc tell you what to think, find out for yourself.

That may be where you are going wrong. I have yet to see anyone else quoting these agencies.