The Perfect Social Structure

It has been the goal of mankind since the dawn of time. The one thing modern man has in common with all ancient civilizations is the quest for the perfect balance in a social structure.
Through history man has formulated social structures in the efforts to achieve a natural order. In one form or another an imperfect balance has been achieved, and lost to wars over religion, world domination and/or greed.

We know through the study of natural science that everything on planet earth has a balance and a cycle of life and death according to that balance. It would seem that man is the only creature on the planet that still has not achieved a balanced life cycle.

Plants and animals have a life cycle that is repeated over and over. Each death contributes to the life of another in some way. Life seems to go un-wasted in nature. All of this seems to be true with the exception of humans.

It’s almost as if we are a foreign addition put here at some point. Like the introduction of an endogenous animal into a foreign environment that throws off the natural balance of the surrounding eco system and drives surrounding species into extinction. Eventually doing the same to itself.

Either way we seem to be the last to evolve on this planet to a point of coexisting with our selves or our surroundings.
Oddly enough no other creature is fascinated with self destruction like that of humans.

In spite of the differences between men freedom and equality remain as the universal ideals that are at the heart of the human existence.

As easy as these ideas sound they somehow become suppressed in every social structure either from the beginning or over time. Every civilization that has started out with a model of freedom and equality has cycled toward the extreme opposite with the end result being civil collapse.

Our founding fathers and those who helped shape the direction of America knew all too well the struggles that we were to endure in the future in our search for this perfect social structure.

Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide. – John Adams (1814)

Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. – George Washington

The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground. – Thomas Jefferson

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. – Benjamin Franklin

The quotes above are just a few examples of the thought that was put into making the decisions that our nation was built on.

History tells us that most of the social structures that are still popular now came from ancient Greek political and philosophical thought.

Why have we not been able to evolve from these old ideals to a new more balanced way of living together?

I believe in my heart that the original American ideal was a progression in the right direction. Unfortunately just as those nations before us religion, world domination and greed has once again corrupted the the end result.

We all argue over political ideals and waste our time getting caught up in partisan bickering when in the end we all want the same thing. We all want to be free and live happy lives for the rest of the time we have on this planet.

Why is it so hard to see past everything else and focus on living together in harmony.

Where do "We The People" keep going wrong? How can we change this cycle that keeps repeating itself with the same result. I don't mean where has the government gone wrong because they only have the power we give to them.

We have the power to shape our own age of balance. They put much time and energy into trying to convince the people because they know this.

I'm not necessarily speaking in terms of just America but as the whole of the human race. It has to however start somewhere and there needs to emerge an example of this way of life for others to follow.

Hopefully someone will take the time to read this and give some feedack. Its part of a rough draft Ive been working on for a book inspired by the works of Manley Hall, Thomas Paine and a few others.

I also wanted to throw this out there. It was written by Dr. Alexander Tytler in 1787, titled "Cycle of Democracy".

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury.

"From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising them the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.

"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence:

"From bondage to spiritual faith;
from spiritual faith to great courage;
from courage to liberty;
from liberty to abundance;
from abundance to selfishness;
from selfishness to apathy;
from apathy to dependence;
from dependency back again into bondage."

I find it amazing how someone from so long ago could have nailed the cycle of Democracy so well. The fact that this was known so long ago it would seem that some effort would have been made to change this cycle.

Winston Churchill said "those that don't understand history are destined to repeat it." This is truly a testament to how we have lived on this planet.

Charity is the inverse of Chaos and the opposite of Pride.
Order is the inverse of Pride and the opposite of Chaos.
Order, without being unified with Charity is Pride.
Charity, without being unified with Order is Chaos.

Empires rise up in Order, but without knowing the people they are leading, the Empire becomes Pride which creates Chaos.
The response of the people crying out for Charity from their leaders is to eventually rebel with violence and they become the Chaos which creates Pride.
This all leads to a new empire and a new cycle.


People who are good judges (Chaos which becomes Charity through Order) have no need of an overwhelming and Prideful government.
Governments/Economic Powers who are good judges (Pride which becomes Order through Charity) have no need to fear Chaotic people.


Regardless of what form of government we were, are, or will be, being good judges is far more important.

Good judges:
Give to your neighbor as you give to yourself, and if you are so inclined, give to God with all your heart, mind, and soul.

reply to post by Digital_Reality


the funny thing is... none of this matters. good and bad exist in the same space. all time and all mass exist in the same space and time. we are all god expierencing ourselves through ourselves. if you dont understand then you will. if you have a question send me a message. remember good and bad is a human quality.

reply to post by Digital_Reality


the funny thing is... none of this matters. good and bad exist in the same space. all time and all mass exist in the same space and time. we are all god expierencing ourselves through ourselves. if you dont understand then you will. if you have a question send me a message. remember good and bad is a human quality.

reply to post by onequestion


I do understand this but there is still a balance between the two that has yet to be found.

A balance that will stand the test of time without a total collapse in the end due to greed, corruption and the need to dominate. There is a way to formulate a system to put safeguards in place to end the progress toward these faults that have proved to take us down the road of self destruction.

I remember reading in Plato's dialogs the following..

"There were many special laws affecting the several kings inscribed about the temples, but the most important was the following: They were not to take up arms against one another, and they were all to come to the rescue if any one in any of their cities attempted to overthrow the royal house; like their ancestors, they were to deliberate in common about war and other matters, giving the supremacy to the descendants of Atlas. And the king was not to have the power of life and death over any of his kinsmen unless he had the assent of the majority of the ten."

The need for such a perfectly balanced system was obvious even back then. I'm sure we could have improved on this after a thousand or so years better than what we have by now.

No doubt the perfect social structure would be a balance made of laws/safeguards but the key would be to accomplish this with the least amount of laws/safeguards possible.

Originally posted by Digital_Reality
I do understand this but there is still a balance between the two that has yet to be found.

The cycles of this life are for even Void to be created and perfected in the end of it's course. Meanwhile, living in a paradox of this process as we do, perfection will never be found. Balancing Order and Charity is only something of the Most High. We are certainly not high enough (pun not intended). This is why Gods has communed with us in many ways throughout history and has even entered into those who are given the gift of faith. Religion is not the answer, religions (including Atheism) are Pride and/or Chaos. The closest we can ever hope for in this life is for each individual to govern themselves so that they protect themselves and their neighbors. Laws should still be in place for the weak who are unable to do so, but there should be a very flexible system to foster individuals becoming better and better judges.

Why do you think it was our (US) judicial system that fell last? Because good judges are the most spiritually powerful thing in this world and most closely emulate God. Our founding fathers understood this in general and established the constitution in such a way. Too bad Pride and Chaos have degraded it into a "choose their own adventure" instead of a "choose your own adventure."

I suppose conspiracy theorists could go off on the idea that Elitists are trying purposefully to prevent good judges from becoming more common in order to continue their role as "gods of animals," but... who knows? At least the way things go, the most they can be is that. A good judge would encourage their sheep to become good judges themselves. Like YHWH.

[edit on 10/14/2009 by Dasher]

reply to post by Dasher


I do believe that a much better idea/structure will eventually be achieved where we will progress to a higher standard of living. It may take another 3k years and our race may be partially wiped out 2 or 3 more times before we get the hint but none the less I think this is attainable.

To what end? If I knew that Id have the answer we all search for. Hell, we may have already achieved it a few times in the past and forgotten. I can only hope if it is achieved again they will chisel it in stone so it will not be forgotten. Hmmm, funny how I just thought of the Georgia guide stones as I wrote this.

It does and can get better than this. This is not the age of harmony.

reply to post by Digital_Reality


Start now.
Be a good judge.
Changing yourself is the beginning of changing the world.

There is no "evil" or "bad". There only is absence of good.

There is no "darkness". There is only absence of light.

reply to post by jjkenobi


That is a bit of an over simplification of it, but somewhat true.
In some regards, evil can have a consciousness just as those who do not set their eyes on permanent things have temporary consciousness, so don't disregard it. However, as with all temporary things, that which is permanent can not ever be overcome by them.

Without disregarding the transitions connecting such ideas, the Spiritual Temporary rules over the Carnal Temporary, and the Spiritually Eternal rules over all.

Please refer to this post for a more detailed conversation on this idea;
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I was considering starting a thread with a theme that you essentially have addressed in this post. so I will add my two cents to what you have already stated.

I was wanting to know if anyone with a solid knowledge of history could name for me an empire, nation, state, sect, etc... that even for a brief period of time was able to successfully function under a leadership that espoused something Utopian. I haven't been able to come up with my own answer. Only in myth does it seem to exist.

It would appear to me that leaders, for the most part, have assumed that role through bloodlines or some other perceived birthright, or have resorted to violence or deception in fulfilling their lust/quest for power. Has any leader who has democratically achieved that role not eventually had their moral vision impaired or been otherwise corrupted?

Has there ever been a leadership that has not deliberately tried to oppress subjects by impoverishing them, utilizing heavy-handed military or policing tactics, or dividing them into social strata who are differently "valued"?

Have all leaders, by simple virtue of their position, lived lavish or otherwise privileged lives as compared to their subjects?

Has there been a leadership that hasn't sought to expand its borders (whatever form "borders" would take for a particular group) at the expense of others?

Perhaps there are historical examples, I just can't come up with any.

Do we not care if leadership is benevolent or tyrannical because of some innate need in humans to follow a leader (I suppose we see this in the animal world)? Why is it that when there are more followers than leaders, overtly tyrannical leaders can wield their power for decades at a time unchallenged?

Some posters on this site have suggested that it is paranoid to believe that there is some vague "they" group (NWO, Global Elite, Illuminati, you name it) that is intent on taking over the world and imposing a Georgia Guidestones-like agenda. Given our historical track record of submitting to tyrannical leadership, why would it be ludicrous for it to happen at a global level?

I guess I would feel better about this prospect if I could obtain historical examples of man at both leadership/subject level working cooperativelytoward achieving a Utopian goal (as unattainable as Utopia actually is).

Originally posted by GoneGrey
...
I was wanting to know if anyone with a solid knowledge of history could name for me an empire, nation, state, sect, etc... that even for a brief period of time was able to successfully function under a leadership that espoused something Utopian. I haven't been able to come up with my own answer. Only in myth does it seem to exist.

It would appear to me that leaders, for the most part, have assumed that role through bloodlines or some other perceived birthright, or have resorted to violence or deception in fulfilling their lust/quest for power. Has any leader who has democratically achieved that role not eventually had their moral vision impaired or been otherwise corrupted?

Has there ever been a leadership that has not deliberately tried to oppress subjects by impoverishing them, utilizing heavy-handed military or policing tactics, or dividing them into social strata who are differently "valued"?

Have all leaders, by simple virtue of their position, lived lavish or otherwise privileged lives as compared to their subjects?

Has there been a leadership that hasn't sought to expand its borders (whatever form "borders" would take for a particular group) at the expense of others?

Perhaps there are historical examples, I just can't come up with any.

Do we not care if leadership is benevolent or tyrannical because of some innate need in humans to follow a leader (I suppose we see this in the animal world)? Why is it that when there are more followers than leaders, overtly tyrannical leaders can wield their power for decades at a time unchallenged?

Some posters on this site have suggested that it is paranoid to believe that there is some vague "they" group (NWO, Global Elite, Illuminati, you name it) that is intent on taking over the world and imposing a Georgia Guidestones-like agenda. Given our historical track record of submitting to tyrannical leadership, why would it be ludicrous for it to happen at a global level?
...

Pre Script;
Ok, so I read this back... It's a bit out there. I realize. Just bear with me. If you have basic knowledge of prophetic views, you should at least not think of me as too crazy, but I assure you, in patience, you may see that what I am pointing at is real.
On with the post;
---
You are seeing fantastic and great things! Now take it further and imagine this Utopia being real. What would it look like. What needs to be done to get there? Even if it is impossible (I do believe perfection is limited in this world) for man to achieve Utopia in this life, those who know of and serve All Things should be moving towards it.

False judges will always attempt to unwittingly destroy All Things. But the nature of Eternity is to outlast the Temporal. All false judges/gods will fall to the dirt (the passing cycles which are not eternal) as did portions of All Things when they first moved into the Void from Perfection (aka. The Anointed's Bride is given life, the beginning of the Universe - figuratively, the people of the first shape, or of one three or triangle - 1 of 3, or 1/3). We are the Void created by and filled up by All Things (aka. The Anointed's Visitation of His Bride, the first coming - the people of two first shapes, or of two threes/triangles, or the star of David - 2 of 3 or 2/3). All Things have been promised to be restored in full (aka. The Anointed's Union to His Bride, the second coming - the people of three first shapes, or of three threes/triangles - 3 of 3, or a Whole - 333, also 1/3 the imaginary number, also the smaller portion of the whole - the numbered innumerable, which is what an imaginary number is). Those who live as though their lives are temporary/carnal/more animal like (aka. The Beast, The Anti-Anointeds - the number of man - 666, the mathematical opposite imaginary number of 1/3, also the larger portion of the whole - the forgotten innumerable), they will be forgotten by Gods and given over to the ends of their fathers who are Pride and Chaos.


So then, to return directly to our own matter. Positions of great power should be divided. We should have positions of power, but limited power. We all know we need leadership in general, or else there would already be none. We keep looking for someone to fill a position of great power and due to the impossibility of being perfect in this life, they always disappoint and harm many. They may or may not be, but often are, stronger than the average person in general and therefore, could be very good leaders. I tell you this, most men currently in power would make heroic and selfless leaders had their life been expressed in a smaller and more "connected to their neighbor" way. But, having been expressed through so much power and yet harm, their end will be that of a bad judge/false god. A truly good judge would divide power by helping to increase the abilities of everyone to be good judges themselves.

Give to God - Know that while there are strong and weak men, no man should reign from positions of overwhelming power. No one is perfect in this world, nor can we be alone. No man can wield such strength as states or countries well enough to be expected to bring Order and Charity to the world. Order and Charity can only come from All. Give to your neighbor as yourself - All Things should seek to bring happiness to their neighbor, for their neighbor is the world unto them.

How do we get there? By ruling over our own lives in the way that we would hope our truly great leaders would rule over us.

How do you eat? What if you were a spirit with no body and your current body was an animal you tended to. Would you feed it crap? Or would you feed it healthy things? Would you exercise it, groom it, educate it, etc? Would you put chemicals on it like PEG-40 and chlorine?

I am not suggesting any one-way-fits-all solution. I am telling everyone who reads this to START BEING A GOOD JUDGE OF YOUR OWN LIFE AND YOU WILL CHANGE THE WORLD. Spend all of your efforts and as little of your money as reasonably possible on making yourself a healthy animal, and a healthy spiritual being. Leaders of the World, and leaders of your own lives, lead with Order and Charity or expect Chaos and Pride to overcome you physically and then spiritually.

[edit on 10/18/2009 by Dasher]

[edit on 10/18/2009 by Dasher]

reply to post by GoneGrey


The closest has been.... The Constitution, The Bill of Rights, and the Declaration of Independence.

They were the closest to the perfect framework of a Utopian society.

We forgot about our rights as free men much to fast.

So what social structure are you advocating OP? Classical liberalism like America was founded upon? For those of you unaware, classical liberalism is actually more like modern right libertarianism and is not the same as the modern definition of liberalism. The key difference between the classical liberalism America was founded on and modern right libertarianism is that classical liberals like Locke and the founding fathers believed that we have a moral duty to help one another where modern right libertarians believe helping another should be a choice and not a duty.

I think this thread is titled with 'society' but is, really, referencing the 'state.'

As a State, the United States lacks a sacred character. It discharges functions that are purely utilitarian and lack any transcendent purpose. Instead of putting down the Newburgh Conspiracy, Gen. Washington should have become party to the coup attempt and crowned himself Doge of the United States. Organic states are necessarily inseparable with a single person.

The idea of liberty and democracy are irreconcilable, the former being the absence of control and the latter being a system of control. Balance is compromise and compromise is always a loss. Only a sacred personality granted totalitarian power can guarantee liberty. For maximum continuity, sacred personalities have to be consciously bred, not left to circumstance, thereby necessitating the need for an aristocracy.

Nice thread. But, the is no Good or Evil, no Right nor Wrong, only a difference in opinion.

I believe in my heart that the original American ideal was a progression in the right direction. Unfortunately just as those nations before us religion, world domination and greed has once again corrupted the the end result.

But today you sit here with all the power in your hands..and you do nothing..it´s making me and many Europeans sad and afraid..when you letting corp´s speak for you in the name of liberty..