Judgment Day: Birther Taitz Fined $20,000 For Misconduct

The woman wasn't sanctioned on the merits of the case. She was sanctioned for the abuse of process. She came to court, presented her evidence, gave it her best shot, and lost. She then tried again, and again, and again, but each time she added nothing new. She was simply rehashing the same evidence and the same pleadings, with trivial variations.

As an attorney, she knows that this is not acceptable behavior. If you lose in court, you can file a motion to reconsider. The judge usually rejects it, but hey, worth a shot, and permissible. After that, you've got to take it up. Go to the next higher court and ask for the decision to be overturned. If no go, move up again, until you get to the Supreme Court, if you ever get that far. Lose there, and you're seriously hosed unless you can bribe Congress to pass a law or something.

But you cannot keep filing the same crap over and over again, and expect the judge to just keep looking at the same issues again, hoping he'll come to a different decision this time.

Now, IANAL, but there is something known as res judicata, which means basically "the thing has been decided". Once that happens, you can't raise it again. You can't keep trying to hold the same trial over and over again, until you get the outcome you want.

Think of it this way. A kid asks his mom for candy, and she says no. So he asks her again, and she says no again. And then he does it again. Still no. If he keeps asking, sooner or later Mom's going to lose patience and punish the kid. Same thing. She got spanked.

[edit on 10/14/2009 by chiron613]

reply to post by Southern Guardian


You video would take me over half an hour to load on my connection..

Somehow I suspect you have presented a video of Taitz being nutty...IDK.

At any rate....

I would like to see the long form too!

I saw the online version.... I questioned it when I saw it...No doctor signature?

What gives? I could not get a state ID card with the Birth certificate.

I would like to see some better proof.

Because the Kenyans seem to think he is Kenyan... I mean they are naming schools and building statues to the man.

I know he does not have to show because he is the decider and it is the same exact kind of thing the last administration would do..but that is a lousy argument.. It was for them and it is for him.

If he showed his long form would some one try to steal his identity? If they did try would they get caught in all likelihood? I mean what is the harm at this point? It would only put one more nail in this subject and it might be the last nail needed. If it can add more proof to the pool some of us would accept it. It would be enough...We could say "It took long enough but there it is, the long form now we are satisfied"


It is as simple as saying "Do it"...and it could not harm him in the least.

So why not do it? Unless their is some good reason to stay silent about it?

reply to post by Southern Guardian


SG, I know your better than that.

You don't answer a question with a questions.

Just the simple fact that you had to ask that many questions puts you in the same situation. You want proof because you feel something is not right.

Well in reverse, on behalf of the American people, I'll tell you to shut up, sit down, and take it. I'll tell you that you have no right to question it, and you are just going to have to deal with it.

Now we all know you can trust our Govt. right?

Why would the people of ATS believe any BS that comes out of the Govt.?
Is it right or fair in this country to shove down a minorty of the population?

If it had all gone to court once, it would have been over with a long time ago. Hell, they have made guys like Bush and Kerry jump through hoops to cough up paper work that did not even have anything to do with legally being the POTUS.




[edit on 14-10-2009 by j2000]

reply to post by JBA2848


Shaking my head in amazement. Could I just see his (REAL) birth certificate and (why is it?) this liar and Commander and Thief want expose any of his records (the important ones) to "we the people". Mr. B of the feds and Mr. O (our pseudo president) have much in common, mainly they have lied so many times some (but certainly not all) zombies, sheeples and just plain everyday idiots are starting to smell something.

This is a huge waste of time and a distraction. Arguing over Obama's birth certificate is like arguing over the Captain's license while the Titanic goes down. Obama is a puppet, all politicians are puppets. Don't be distracted, its all about the Federal Reserve. Forget conservative/liberal dems/repubs. FORGET ALL THAT, ITS ALL ABOUT THE FED! DIVIDE AND THEN CONQUER, fight the distractions...

Originally posted by Spectre0o0

well at least barry has the 1.4 mil from the peace prize to keep paying the lawyers to keep avoiding the situation.
i'm sure the first mil he spent to hide his past came from taxpayers or campaign funds.

1.he hasn't received the award or the prize money, the ceremony hasn't happened yet.

2. he has publicly declared that he will donate all of it to charities

3. Saying what he "probably" did with taxpayer money is baseless. I'm all for the truth but it has to be actually be true.


just sayin, trying to deny ignorance

[edit on 14-10-2009 by piddles]

Originally posted by gaslaugh123
reply to post by JBA2848

 

Shaking my head in amazement. Could I just see his (REAL) birth certificate and (why is it?) this liar and Commander and Thief want expose any of his records (the important ones) to "we the people". Mr. B of the feds and Mr. O (our pseudo president) have much in common, mainly they have lied so many times some (but certainly not all) zombies, sheeples and just plain everyday idiots are starting to smell something.

Because he doesn't have to show you. Just because he's President of the United States doesn't mean he's not also a private citizen. No one has to show you their long-form birth certificate if you ask for it.

turns out, there are much more important things happening than getting your "satisfaction"


edit: and to make a point:

show me your long form birth certificate. oh? you don't want to?

even if you did, I would call it fake because I can and because I don't like you.


sound familiar?

[edit on 14-10-2009 by piddles]

It is about time this lady was smacked down for this idiotic crusade. If you have to falsify documents in order to try and push your dumb bull # agenda, that is not practicing law, that is trying to be main stream media. It's one thing to take something you believe in to court, it's another thing to use your responsibility to lie.

I think she got off light, perhaps Obama's lawyers can recoup the court costs associated with her moronic crusade.

not to derail this topic with a dead horse (my apologies to the OP if I did so),

I always felt this conspiracy made conspiracy theorists look bad. Not just any kind of bad, but Holocaust Denier bad. No Plane Theory Bad.


I watched this forum light up when that first document came out. So many people believed it instantly, commenting something to the degree of "I can't believe this, he should be impeached" blah blah blah. Yeah, you guys know who you are.


Personally, I'd love to go back into those threads and take note of everyone who jumped on that bandwagon but I'll spare you all the embarassment

I feel a bit sorry for Orly as she has so many people who are really supporting her and hoping for their desired outcome. That's quite a bit of pressure. I have no doubt that she'll be able to raise the money from her supporters, probably in a couple hours time. They feel like they have the truth on their side. Worse yet, they feel like they have God on their side. :shk: This fine won't set her back, I'm afraid. The only thing that will stop her is disbarment. And even then, there are other lawyers who are willing to take this case. Our country has no shortage of lawyers willing to pursue frivolous lawsuits. And that's what this is.

Originally posted by titorite
I would like to see the long form too!

A lot of people would. A lot of people think there's something suspicious. A lot of people are just curious. But that doesn't change the FACT that as an American citizen, President Obama is under no obligation to satisfy the curiosity of the people. Your curiosity does not trump his privacy. He has the same right to privacy as we all do. (I know it's not enumerated in the Constitution, but a birth certificate, long or short, is a private document.) So, our curiosity to poke our nose in his personal papers is no more relevant than our curiosity to know what goes on in his bedroom.

He has proven, to the satisfaction of those in authority on such matters, that he is eligible for the presidency. Congress passed a resolution stating that he was born in Hawaii. He has gone beyond the necessary proof and placed his Certificate of Live Birth on the Internet. That was immediately attacked and some dimwit made a claim (not a legal claim, mind you) that it was false. And so the birthers want more. They are NOT entitled to more. They are not entitled to the short form.

I would suggest that they take the claim made about Obama's CoLB and get a real document analyst, and go at it from that angle. Surely, if it IS fake, that could be proven in court. But they're wasting all their energy and chances on Taitz and her fantastic claims that he was born in Kenya. (FYI, I do not believe that the CoLB is fake or that it can be analyzed over the Internet one way or the other.)

I saw the online version.... I questioned it when I saw it...No doctor signature?

Short forms have no doctor signature. I suggest you order a copy of your BC and see what you get.

What gives? I could not get a state ID card with the Birth certificate.

Actually, you could. A short form can be used in a court of law or to verify age, place of birth, citizenship, etc. The short form is the legal proof of the long form. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Because the Kenyans seem to think he is Kenyan... I mean they are naming schools and building statues to the man.

That doesn't mean that they think he is Kenyan.

I know he does not have to show because he is the decider and it is the same exact kind of thing

No. He doesn't have to show it because he is an American citizen and it is a private document.

If it can add more proof to the pool some of us would accept it. It would be enough...We could say "It took long enough but there it is, the long form now we are satisfied"

Some of you would accept it. For a bit. Until some dimwit made a YouTube video of his Internet analysis and called the document a fake. Then we'd be right back where we are now. It would do NO good.

It is as simple as saying "Do it"...and it could not harm him in the least.

You're not respecting his rights as an American citizen. You think violating his rights "couldn't harm him in the least"??? Think about that for a minute. Think about YOUR rights of privacy being violated to satisfy others' curiosity. I'm consistently surprised that people would so easily violate others' privacy to satisfy their own curiosity.

Originally posted by j2000
You want proof because you feel something is not right.

Even if that were true, he is still not OWED proof. We could ALL want proof and it doesn't matter.

I'll tell you that you have no right to question it, and you are just going to have to deal with it.

No one has ever said that the birthers have no right to question it. But you may not have the right to the answer that you want.

Hell, they have made guys like Bush and Kerry jump through hoops to cough up paper work that did not even have anything to do with legally being the POTUS.

I don't recall any legal force to produce private papers.

[edit on 14-10-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I don't feel sorry for her one bit. She worked hard for this and it's what she deserves. Like you said, she probably will have it paid off in a couple hours.

Some times people get slapped. She just got a little love tap from the court. A kind of reminder to her to pull her head out of her behind and look at reality.

Here's what I still don't get. I'm 35 years old and every couple of years we run into the people that had a child at the same hospital, same day as when I was born. When I go back to my old church, there are a bunch of 80-90 yr old women who love to tell me stories of when I was a baby. Even the doctor constantly reminded me through the years of my larger birth size (almost 11 lbs).

So... does anybody anywhere in the USA remember Obama's mom in the hospital? Surely someone else had a baby at the same time, right? Does anybody in Hawaii remember Obama as a newborn?

I do not mean any negativity by this statement, but I would think a caucasian woman giving birth to an african-american baby would have gained a little notice at an American hospital back in the 1960s.

Has anyone stepped forward?

reply to post by themamayada


There you go using common sense again. Practically speaking, someone should have remembered her but then, that someone has already been contacted dont you think?

Originally posted by themamayada
Here's what I still don't get. I'm 35 years old and every couple of years we run into the people that had a child at the same hospital, same day as when I was born. When I go back to my old church, there are a bunch of 80-90 yr old women who love to tell me stories of when I was a baby. Even the doctor constantly reminded me through the years of my larger birth size (almost 11 lbs).

So... does anybody anywhere in the USA remember Obama's mom in the hospital? Surely someone else had a baby at the same time, right? Does anybody in Hawaii remember Obama as a newborn?

I do not mean any negativity by this statement, but I would think a caucasian woman giving birth to an african-american baby would have gained a little notice at an American hospital back in the 1960s.

Has anyone stepped forward?

There is only one pic of myself as a newborn, the only people who ever talk about my birth are my family. I've never run into anyone who was in the same hospital as I was and I highly doubt anyone would remember me or my family if I did.

Oh and I've only ever seen my short form birth certificate.

By Birther laws of evidence I guess I am not a citizen.

McCain was born in Panama.
But every person in the GOP says that's okay, because it was a navy base.

Obama was born in Hawaii, the State confirms it, but that's not enough, and neither is the "short form" that has been provided.

I wish these people would just admit that there is NO proof that would appease them, if they would only do that, then we could all go back to just ignoring them .

Originally posted by JBA2848

I wish they would do a investigation of the woman for the false documents she has used in the past. I wouldn't say that if she would of stopped at the first one but she has used more since.

[edit on 10/13/2009 by semperfortis]

Kind of ironic as many people would like to see them do an investigation of our Usurper In Chief who hasn't produced ANY documents and has suppressed records of his ENTIRE life and placed them under lock and key. But alas, the courts no longer believe that the tax-paying citizens of this country have any standing before our government. The sun is setting upon America!

Whatever you obama lovers believe these are the facts that can be proven;
he has done everything in his power to not let truth come to light and she has every right to question his eligibility.Those are the only two provable facts.All the rest on both sides is speculation and the thing that bothers me the most is ,if you read southern guardians posts he/she is obviously intelligent and well spoken and I find it hard to believe that anyone of any intelligence can come to the conclusions he/she espouses.My conclusion, let the courts decide and stop arguing with someone who is quite probably on the payroll of the obama administration.

Originally posted by Spectre0o0

Originally posted by JBA2848

I think it is about time that the court has decided to stop her from just turning the court system into her fantasy play ground with her baseless claims and repeated use of false documents as evidence. I wish they would do a investigation of the woman for the false documents she has used in the past. I wouldn't say that if she would of stopped at the first one but she has used more since.

tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 10/13/2009 by semperfortis]

gee , i thought it was time for transparency like barry promised.
well at least barry has the 1.4 mil from the peace prize to keep paying the lawyers to keep avoiding the situation.
i'm sure the first mil he spent to hide his past came from taxpayers or campaign funds.

i know. that doesn't count when the messiah does it.

the 1.4 mill was donated to charity, but if you had spent 30 seconds on research, you would have already discovered that.
cnnwire.blogs.cnn.com...

and this woman proves that it wouldn't matter what you showed to her, she would not believe it and continue bringing lawsuits. the judge that fined her 20 grand let her off easy. she has easily cost the taxpayers that much money in court costs.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

I don't recall any legal force to produce private papers.

Here is just a few examples of people demanding private things in court to be POTUS. It was ok then, and it had nothing to do with the Constitution and being even elgible to be President. This at least does.

The Associated Press asked a federal judge Friday to order the Pentagon to quickly turn over a full copy of President Bush's military service record

www.editorandpublisher.com... isplay.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000579869

John Kerry divorce records

www.usatoday.com... on/president/2004-07-01-kery-divorce_x.htm

The Swift boat group continues to spend money on Washington consultants, according to public records, and last fall it gave $100,000 to a group that promptly sued Mr. Kerry, a Democratic senator from Massachusetts, for allegedly interfering with the release of a film that was critical of him.

www.nytimes.com... =rssuserland&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1190486378-8/IXAwkY8muLQSw3oCj2OQ

[edit on 14-10-2009 by j2000]

Originally posted by genius/idoit
Whatever you obama lovers believe these are the facts that can be proven;
he has done everything in his power to not let truth come to light and she has every right to question his eligibility.Those are the only two provable facts.All the rest on both sides is speculation and the thing that bothers me the most is ,if you read southern guardians posts he/she is obviously intelligent and well spoken and I find it hard to believe that anyone of any intelligence can come to the conclusions he/she espouses.My conclusion, let the courts decide and stop arguing with someone who is quite probably on the payroll of the obama administration.

c'mon...you'll never believe Obama was born in this country...so...there is no arguement...no discussion...you birthers are just being ignored, even by your own party.