Revisited: Hall of Records

Originally posted by Hanslune
Sargoth there were two C-14 dating expeditions, you seem to have used only the first. The second was more expansive and got a better average you may wish to look at that.

dating the pyramids via c-14....... are you serious?





Problems with Radiometric and Carbon-14 Dating

1. The material to be dated must be organic.
2. The organism to be tested must have gotten its C-14 from the atmosphere.
3. The sample has remained chemically and physically in a closed system since its emplacement.
4. That we know what the atmospheric concentration of C-14 was when the organism lived.

which brings you to some half-time fun.....

Google Video Link

Robert Wenke, John Nolan, and Ala'a Amran collect and log samples for radiocarbon dating from the pyramid of Menkaure at Giza. Pyramid of Khafre is in background

how very dramatic..... searching for 'organic vacuumed dust'

anyways lets dig the real deal.....

Dating the Pyramids Volume 52 Number 5, September/October 1999 by members of the David H. Koch Pyramids Radiocarbon Project

It was an odd sensation climbing over the Great Pyramid, looking for minute flecks of charcoal or other datable material, loaded down with cameras, scales, notebooks, and forms with entries for sample number, site, monument, area, feature, material (charcoal, reed, wood, etc.), matrix (gypsum mortar, mud brick, etc.), date, time, notes on details, extracted by, logged by, photograph numbers, and sketches. It was 1984 and the Edgar Cayce Foundation, named for an early twentieth-century psychic who claimed that the Sphinx and Khufu's Great Pyramid were built in 10,500 B.C., was paying for the analysis of our samples. Old friends and supporters of the deceased psychic had visited Giza in the early 1980s and several of them were willing to put their beliefs to the test by radiocarbon dating the Great Pyramid. Archaeologists believe it is the work of the Old Kingdom Dynasty 4 society that rose to prominence in the Nile Valley from ca. 3000 B.C. and built the Giza Pyramids in a span of 85 years between 2589 and 2504 B.C.

1984 Results. The 1984 radiocarbon dates from monuments spanning Dynasty 3 (Djoser) to late Dynasty 5 (Unas), averaged 374 years older than the Cambridge Ancient History dates of the kings with whom the pyramids are identified. In spite of this discrepancy, the radiocarbon dates confirmed that the Great Pyramid belonged to the historical era studied by Egyptologists. In dealing with the 374-year discrepancy, we had to consider the old wood problem. In 1984 we thought it was unlikely that the pyramid builders consistently used centuries-old Egyptian wood as fuel in preparing mortar. Ancient Egypt's population was compressed in the narrow confines of the Nile Valley with a tree cover, we assumed, that was sparse compared to less arid lands. We expected that by the pyramid age the Egyptians had been intensively exploiting wood for fuel for a long time and that old trees had been harvested long before. The 1984 results left us with too little data to conclude that the historical chronology of the Old Kingdom was in error by nearly 400 years, but we considered this at least a possibility. Alternatively, if our radiocarbon age estimations were in error for some reason, we had to assume that many other dates obtained from Egyptian materials were also suspect. This prompted a second, larger study.

wow.... it seems the mysteries behind the construction techniques are already solved

and we are left to only 'imagine'.... workers deforesting the plateau to use the 'wood' as fuel for making mortar

The 1995 Project. During 1995 samples were collected from the Dynasty 1 tombs at Saqqara to the Djoser pyramid, the Giza Pyramids, and a selection of Dynasty 5 and 6 and Middle Kingdom pyramids. Samples were also taken from our excavations at Giza where two largely intact bakeries were discovered in 1991. The calibrated dates from the 1995 Old Kingdom pyramid samples tended to be 100 to 200 years older than the historical dates for the respective kings and about 200 years younger than our 1984 dates. The number of dates from both 1984 and 1995 was only large enough to allow for statistical comparisons for the pyramids of Djoser, Khufu, Khafre, and Menkaure. There are two striking results. First, there are significant discrepancies between 1984 and 1995 dates for Khufu and Khafre, but not for Djoser and Menkaure. Second, the 1995 dates are scattered, varying widely even for a single monument. For Khufu, they scatter over a range of about 400 years. By contrast, we have fair agreement between our historical dates, previous radiocarbon dates, and our radiocarbon dates on reed for the Dynasty 1 tombs at North Saqqara. We also have fair agreement between our radiocarbon dates and historical dates for the Middle Kingdom. Eight calibrated dates on straw from the pyramid of Senwosret II ranged from 103 years older to 78 years younger than the historical dates for his reign, with four dates off by only 30, 24, 14, and three years. Significantly, the older date was on charcoal.

in other words... all those samples were known to have started decaying right at the time the pyramids were built

but we can prove that carbon dates are accurate..... there are usually two ways cited to do this......

1. We can date things for which historians know the right answer.
2. We can date things that have been dated by some other method.

i suppose this has something to do with synchronicity of fractal time....

cntd......


[edit on 16/10/09 by mcrom901]

Old Kingdom Problem. If the Middle Kingdom radiocarbon dates are okay, why are the Old Kingdom ones from pyramids so problematic? The pyramid builders used older cultural material, whether out of expedience or to make a conscious connection between their pharaoh and his predecessors. In galleries under the pyramid of the Dynasty 3 pharaoh Djoser more than 40,000 stone vessels were found. Inscriptions on them included most of the kings of Dynasty 1 and 2, but Djoser's name occurred only once. Perhaps Djoser gathered up the vases from the 200-year-old Archaic tombs at North Saqqara. In Dynasty 12, Amenemhet I actually took bits and pieces of Old Kingdom tomb chapels and pyramid temples (including those of the Giza Pyramids) and dumped them into the core of his pyramid at Lisht.

At Giza, south of the Sphinx, we are excavating remains of facilities for storage and production of fish, meat, bread, and copper that date to the middle and end of Dynasty 4, when the pyramids of Khafre and Menkaure were under construction. Three of the eight dates from samples taken here are almost direct hits on Menkaure's historical dates, 2532- 2504 B.C. The other five, however, range from 350 to 100 years older. Our radiocarbon dates from the site suggest that, like those from the pyramids, the dates on charcoal from the settlement scatter widely in time with many dates older than the historical estimate. The pyramid builders were likely recycling their own settlement debris.

It may have been premature to dismiss the old wood problem in our 1984 study. Do our radiocarbon dates reflect the Old Kingdom deforestation of Egypt? Did the pyramid builders devour whatever wood they could harvest or scavenge to roast tons of gypsum for mortar, to forge copper chisels, and to bake tens of thousands of loaves to feed the mass of assembled laborers. The giant stone pyramids in the early Old Kingdom may mark a major consumption of Egypt's wood cover, and therein lies the reason for the wide scatter, increased antiquity, and history-unfriendly radiocarbon dating results from the Old Kingdom, especially from the time of Djoser to Menkaure. In other words, it is the old-wood effect that haunts our dates and creates a kind of shadow chronology to the historical dating of the pyramids. It is the shadow cast by a thousand fires burning old wood.

While the multiple old wood effects make it difficult to obtain pinpoint age estimates of pyramids, the David H. Koch Pyramids Radiocarbon Project now has us thinking about forest ecologies, site formation processes, and ancient industry and its environmental impact--in sum, the society and economy that left the Egyptian pyramids as hallmarks for all later humanity.

The David H. Koch Pyramids Radiocarbon Project is a collaborative effort of Shawki Nakhla and Zahi Hawass, The Egyptian Supreme Council of Antiquities; Georges Bonani and Willy Wölfli, Institüt für Mittelenergiephysik, Eidgenossische Technische Hochschule; Herbert Haas, Desert Research Institute; Mark Lehner, The Oriental Institute and the Harvard Semitic Museum; Robert Wenke, University of Washington; John Nolan, University of Chicago; and Wilma Wetterstrom, Harvard Botanical Museum. The project is administered by Ancient Egypt Research Associates, Inc.

furthermore.....

The attempt to establish the method for the great unknown periods of prehistory has involved further work with this committee and the majority of our decisions and efforts to date on unknown samples have been directly connected with their efforts. It was decided that the proof of the method in periods older than 5000 years, for which there are no generally accepted dates for testing, would have to be obtained by checks of internal consistency from a wide variety of samples and in a wide variety of problems.

www.specialtyinterests.net...

Guys this is fascinating information and i really am learning a lot from all of you. But let's stick to the specifics of the topic, that is the Hall of Records.

Cheers.

Hans, if it's true that Thoth built the some of the original high quality pyramids 12,500 yrs. ago, that's an extremely long time. 2 world floods and some other world catastrophe would have swept much evidence away, and is buried under the sands somewhere. Also wars,vandalism, earthquakes etc. would take their toll. The difference in quality and precision is one way to determine who built what. We don't know the methods he used, since he was supposed to be a Galactic human, with almost god-like powers, then supernatural methods may have been used. Compare what Ed Leedscalnon did with Coral Castle.
I'm still looking into the Inventory Stele info. I notice in your version, Khufu still didn't claim to build the Great Pyramid, only the inferior little ones near it. Don't you think he would have mentioned creating one of the wonders of the world? I also read articles saying the Inventory Stele is locked away in a box where no one can see it. Why is that Hans?

Demonspeedn, Thoth, Hermes and Enoch are supposed to be different names for the same being. I don't know if they are different incarnations or not. My guess would be no.
According to S. Nidle ETs can travel across the universe in minutes. They use inter dimensional means.





[edit on 16-10-2009 by Sargoth]

I believe that Enoch is his real name and Thoth is what the Egyptians called him and Hermes is what the Greeks called him. I know Enoch is his real name because I've studied his geneology, he is Adam's Great, great, great, great grandson and he was not a "Galactic Human".
What you think are galactic humans are probably Angels, they do help mankind from time to time and it is the only way I can figure it. There is NO WAY you can prove that these so called galactic humans exist and how they travel.
Now all pyramids were built to last through millenia, to be subject to all of mother natures fury and still stand today intact. They were made of granite or some other hard stone and were placed together so precisely that you could not slip a piece of paper between them making them almost earthquake proof. The only reason why the Lighthouse of Alexandria was destroyed by an earthquake was because it was made when the Romans controlled Egypt therefore not having the knowledge to build a structure like pyramids.

reply to post by Sargoth


Howdy Sargoth

Because it was probably written in the 26th century and it was about the Sphinx and Isus temple.

Your Atlantean used the amazingly high tech method of bashing out the limestone blocks using hand held diorite balls - rather a labor intensive method and definitely low low tech.

So all the evidence was wiped away - then why is their no break in the cultural levels back to the Neolithic farmers in other parts of Egypt? No sign whatsoever of any massive floods beyond those usually associated with the Nile?

reply to post by DemonSpeedN


Here are the instructions for building the Pyramids...from the original builder.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ca720ecb1fed.jpg[/atsimg]

All that separates people from knowing what the pyramid is?

A letter. One single letter. The letter K.

G was mistakenly transcribed as a K, thus rendering Kopher/Kepha as Gopher "a non existent wood" (not to mention only being used once in the bible) from Kopher "Stone" (used extensively).

This change of one letter has left people pondering this tower of confusion since our languages were confused by the inundation.

Peace

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand


Howdy LTRU

I avoid biblical discussion like a plague but I'll break my rule on this one.

Kopher the Hebrew word meaning "pitch" so they may have been talking about pine or more probably the writer got the word wrong or used a more obscure word from another language in the ME

How do you explain the following problems with a a stone ark

1. It would fill with water
2. Stone doesn't float the story of Noah clearly states it floated
3. Space is limited inside the pyramid- well in all the pyramids too
4. No great flood

Taken all together my friend that idea doesn't jive with the biblical record or far more importantly the geology or archaeology.

It is inventive however!

Hans, didn't understand what your first sentence meant. I doubt Thoth used such primitive methods. Maybe the Egyptians, not sure about that.
You assume Thoth lived and formed formed a community in Giza. The books don't say that. They don't say much about his every day life. Only that he went all over the globe building pyramids leaving the flower of Life symbol.
There is evidence which could indicate massive flooding. I heard on C2C one time, a researcher said all the evidence for glacier movements could also be caused by massive flooding. There does seem to be evidence of world wide changes about 11,500 yrs. ago. And what about stories of the water marks half way up the G. Pyramid? What about all the things from the sea found all over the outside of the G. Pyramid?
Hans I still haven't heard you give a good reason why Khufu never claimed credit for the G. Pyramid, or why the Inventory Stele is hidden away. Why isn't it in a museum for all to see?

S. Nidle has an explanation for both floods. The destruction of Atlantis brought down 1/2 of the firmaments. Noah's flood was caused during the war between Horus and Seth. They destroyed the temples which kept the firmaments in the sky. The firmaments were 2 ice bubbles around the entire planet. Sounds stupid I know. He says an ancient civilization put it up there to protect the environment down here. He says there wasn't any ice at the poles and no harsh weather. It screened out harmful radiation and prolonged life. It's destruction caused Noah's flood. The bible says so as well. He says they are going to put it back up there after first contact.
We'll see.

Demonspeedn, I know I can't prove much of anything. All I can do is give you my sources. You'll have to check them out for yourself. The pyramids had to have been damaged or Khufu wouldn't have to rebuild them.

www.youtube.com... (Larry Hunter showing sea life on G. Pyramid)




[edit on 17-10-2009 by Sargoth]

Originally posted by Hanslune
reply to post by letthereaderunderstand

 

Howdy LTRU

I avoid biblical discussion like a plague but I'll break my rule on this one.

Kopher the Hebrew word meaning "pitch" so they may have been talking about pine or more probably the writer got the word wrong or used a more obscure word from another language in the ME

How do you explain the following problems with a a stone ark

1. It would fill with water
2. Stone doesn't float the story of Noah clearly states it floated
3. Space is limited inside the pyramid- well in all the pyramids too
4. No great flood

Taken all together my friend that idea doesn't jive with the biblical record or far more importantly the geology or archaeology.

It is inventive however!

Thanks Hans, good to see you again. Sorry to make you break your bible rule. I'm not here to have you bow down to Jesus or anything like that.

On the contrary, if you remove the wood reference which was not added until later, the instructions given for the ark are correct.

Also, the dimensions have been flubbed as well. People think it is saying 300 cubits, but that is not so. It is said "Three of one hundred, by 50, by 30 rise and finished to a (single) cubit above." " You are to build lower(Pit), Middle (Queens chamber) and upper (kings chamber) decks" "you are to put portholes in it (airshafts Kochab, Alpha Draco, Orion, Sirius) and a door in the side (entrance to grand gallery).

It is set under Orion's Bow, not a "Rainbow"...though it is funny that rain and Orion are so close.

Remember, God only deals in just weights and measures. He is giving the scale of the build.

1. Perhaps now it would, then again all of the casings have been removed and the pyramids are no where near what they were when built. It would be like going to a ship yard and saying, "That old sunken boat won't float" "it's seams are coming apart". When left abandoned, all material breaks down...even stone.

2. Steel doesn't float either, but it really has nothing to do with the building material you use. Regardless, it's shape is for the even distribution of water over it's surface making all surface tension even, like trying to crush an egg with your bare hand. If held just right, you will not be able to break the shell, same concept when the ocean bears down on you. "Our love becomes a funeral pyre...." "Surfaces" is Paniym.

3. Space is limited yes, but when you are only dealing with a limited number of "clean" animals and a very limited number of "unclean" animals. The number of animals on the Ark is no where near what people think it is, because they think the whole earth came into the ark, but that is not so. People don't pay attention to what is clean and what is not, so they think a giant boat that no one can find housed every last creature on earth...simply not possible. If you apply the scriptures realistically, knowing at least the bare minimum of the languages, you can't read the bible and get the same story the way you've heard it your whole life. It doesn't include anything that doesn't happen naturally. There is no such thing as magic powers and such. People have ignorantly been fed bs and fantasy. The bible in hebrew and greek reads much different then the KJV version does and includes no such fantasy's as those have all been "interpreted" and not "Transliterated". Hence people believe in invisible things that don't exist.....Makes me sad.

Remember, Egypt isn't a people, it's a metropolis....civilization...Mitzraim.
There's just something about Mary...Hair gel?

4. Global slosh is probably a better term, but either way, you probably know it as "an ice age". This was at a time when the earth was much smaller, before it grew so rapidly. The oceans are basically puss. The earth works the exact same way your body does. Cut-Scar

In regards to Kopher. Sarcophagus and I mean that with no Sarcasm Coffin, Kepha....Petra....the one the KRST builds on, who is Horus, who is Jesus, who is Elvis.....1 for the money, 2 for the show, 3 to get ready....now go sphinx go.

Peace...sorry for the humor....Obama just came on pbs....now I feel funny.

Originally posted by serbsta
Continued...

What is rumored to be in the Hall of Records?

It was Edgar Cayce, the "sleeping prophet," who popularized the idea of a secret chamber associated with the Sphinx. According to Cayce, there is a "Hall of Records" with an entrance to be found between the paws of the Sphinx. In answer to the request, "Give in detail what the sealed room contains," Cayce answered:

A record of Atlantis from the beginning of those periods when the Spirit took form, or began the encasements in that land; and the developments of the peoples throughout their sojourn; together with the record of the first destruction, and the changes that took place in the land; with the record of the sojournings of the peoples and their varied activities in other lands, and a record of the meetings of all the nations or lands, for the activities in the destruction of Atlantis; and the building of the pyramid of initiation, together with whom, what, and where the opening of the records would come, that are as copies from the sunken Atlantis. For with the change, it [Atlantis] must rise again. In position, this lies -- as the sun rises from the waters -- as the line of the shadows (or light) falls between the paws of the Sphinx; that was set later as the sentinel or guard and which may not be entered from the connecting chambers from the Sphinx's right paw until the time has been fulfilled when the changes must be active in this sphere of man's experience. Then [it lies] between the Sphinx and the river. [378-16; Oct 29, 1933]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5b808bf8aaae.gif[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cfb1fe4828ca.gif[/atsimg]

I wish i had more time to expand this thread but i really don't.

Could there really be a secret chamber built by the Egyptians underneath the Sphinx as some research has suggested?

Could this be the fabled Hall of Records pertaining forgotten knowledge regarding humanity?

Why is further research being suppressed?

Hopefully it sparks some interesting discussion!

[edit on 12/10/2009 by serbsta]

if the further research not suppressed, people will know advanced technology in ancient times and the long lasting electronic media will plausible.

Well Sargoth why couldnt the pyramid be designed by one or more people, built by many people and through the years of wear be restored by someone, in this case Khufu.
As far as the whole flood story, which is way off topic by the way but I have to correct someone. The KJV of the bible is the most correct one and it clearly states that 2 of every animal both male and female creature on the planet meaning everything that existed including insects, birds, beasts, etc. All that and noah's family were on that boat while God flooded the whole earth leaving the planet like a water world and killed all the wicked things on earth. The "clean" creatures were on the boat and the "unclean" ones were destroyed by the flood. I read nothing that sounded like magic or fantasy or anything of the sort it was God doing his will. Now for people searching for the ark, they will never find it because it no longer exists on this planet. It either disolved away over the years because it was made of wood or God simply took it up to heaven like the Ark of the Convenant.
No matter what you talk about and what evidence there is, it all comes down to one thing.......What you believe. Now what you may believe could be right it could be wrong. We won't out which till the second coming when Christ will answer all our questions.

Demonspeedn, I didn't mean Thoth did the whole thing by himself. He must have had help. The Melchizedek's books don't say how many helped, or his methods.
As far as the Ark is concerned. Many people down through history have said they saw it on top of Mt. Ararat, Marco Polo I think was one. It is supposed to have broken in half and has fallen down into the mountain. The Galactic Federation will have to retrieve it. I read a report yrs. ago that said an American team went into it long ago and found the skeleton of Adam. Another mind boggling story I read in the late 1990s, was that the body of Osiris was found under the G. Pyramid in one of those giant chambers. Not a mummy or skeleton but the body that looked like he was sleeping. Man I find some strange stuff.

Masonicon, The last line of Cayce's reading is the key.

IT (HALL OF RECORDS) LIES BETWEEN THE SPHINX AND THE RIVER !!!






[edit on 17-10-2009 by Sargoth]

From what I read they only THOUGHT they found the resting place of the ark, not the ark itself.
This finding of Adam's skeleton is is preposterous since no one knows where he was buried let alone able to determine through DNA testing if it is indeed the Father of all Humans.
The finding of this sleeping man found under the great pyramid thought to be Osiris also sounds like a hoax or something someone made up to create debate, you might as well say you found Apocalypse regenerating in his sarcoffagus waiting to take over the world.

There is a spot that has a boat shaped depression near Ararat. I don't think that is the real Ark. There were local people who said during hot years they went up there and went inside the Ark. That was a long time ago and it's not on top any more. It supposedly fell down inside the mountain and broke in half.

It's similar to Mt. Sinai, the traditional one is on the Sinai peninsula. The REAL MT. Sinai is in Saudi Arabia.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

I know the stories sound silly. I have no idea if there is any truth to them.





[edit on 17-10-2009 by Sargoth]

I highly doubt those stories are true. I have a very hard time believing anything like that especially on someones word with no solid proof.

reply to post by masonicon


Excuse me?

Could you please rephrase that properly?

Originally posted by Sargoth

IT (HALL OF RECORDS) LIES BETWEEN THE SPHINX AND THE RIVER !!!

www.world-mysteries.com...

Demonspeedn, I just re-read some of Mechizedek's book and I was wrong, it's been a long while since I read it, and it's a complicated book, not easy to skim through. Anyway, it said Thoth worked with about 1600 ascended masters, but didn't specify how many worked on the G. pyramid etc. It said Thoth and whomever, built the 3 Giza pyramids the underground city, and the Hall of Records. The only symbol left was the Flower of life. It said the Sphinx was there long before anything else, but didn't say what form it originally was. The date given is too shocking, and unbelievable to mention. If true, I doubt Humans started it. So i guess the rest of the Egyptian pyramids were made later by Egyptians or others. Thoth then went to other parts of the world to complete the grid, and didn't stay there to leave much to find, like pottery etc. I don't pretend to understand all the reasons for it, the Christ unity energy grids etc. It's very esoteric and beyond us normal 3 dimensional people. I don't agree with everything in his books either. My main sources are the spiritual path I've followed since 1975 called Eckankar, Sheldan Nidle's info., Melchizedek, as well as Richard Hoagland and David Wilcock. None are perfect.




[edit on 18-10-2009 by Sargoth]

Well it seems to me that were pretty much on the same page except one thing. The thing about who built the sphinx and the pyramids. I personally believe it was all done by humans and not aliens or galactic humans or E.T.'s or whatever you wanna call em. I explained earlier that humans were more intelligent back in those days the we are today which is why most architects and engineers will tell you it is impossible to recreate something like the pyramids exactly as the ancient egytians did cause the knowledge was lost or taken away. Give early humans some credit, just because it doesnt make sense with the proposed time line doesnt mean its wrong. Maybe the time line is wrong and people back in stone age werent dumb cavemen. I have read so many books all saying pretty much the same thing that ancient humans were not as stupid and technology challenged as most people think they were. So Thoth or whoever he is, had to be 100% human just a very talented architect or engineer to build something like the pyramids with the technology they had back then.