Obama pledges to end restrictions on Gays in the United States Millitary

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Flighty
If no one was asked about their sexuality before, then why make it an issue now??

If you truly don't get it, let me explain.

Under "Don't ask, don't tell", heterosexual people can talk about their relationships and have a picture of their spouse on their wall. The men can freely express their sexuality by flirting with the girls and discussing with the other straight men who is "hot" or whatever.

On the other hand, gays are not permitted to have pictures of their partners, talk about their relationship or in any way reveal that they are gay. In other words, they can ACT like they're straight (concealing their true selves) or ACT like they don't have any sexuality at all (concealing their true selves).

It's not that sexuality is a "big deal", but as human beings, it is part of who we are and does come into discussions and the every day living of our lives, whether we're in the military or not.

I don't know how many times I've talked about my husband here on ATS. And I'm not even talking about my sexuality. He's just a big part of my life and as such, he comes into the discussion. But in the military, gay people have to keep quiet about that.

Hope that helps.

I think you are the one that does not get it.
The majority of people don't care for homosexuals and it's even higher in the Military. The "Don't ask, Don't tell" policy protects them if anything.
If you have been in the Military, you would know what I mean.
Blanket party anyone?
You can't cram too much close quarter stuff down the Militaries throat, because they will re-act to it.

In the general sence it might not be completely fair. But you are asking a lot of someone in the Military. You are asking them to do what you will not do.
Unless you are willing to do what they do for you, don't tell them how to do it, and what the rules of the game must be.

Most people have in mind an office setting. Even the one's that do this, must go thru the same hard crap in training as the rest.

OH BOY!!! Do we get to watch mush loosebowels explode now???

I can't wait.

In all reality gays have been serving in military's since there have been military's and most of them haven't cared one way or another just so long as they fought.

The Greeks did however had special phalanxes composed entirely of paired lovers and they were generally thought of as the most dangerous and capable in their armies.

[edit on 11-10-2009 by grover]

reply to post by grover


Oh Grover, You have been Flagged and your are shinning red

I never seen you with so many flags before.

I tell you, while I don't see any problem with gays or lesbian in the service as they have been serving the country for a long time, I wonder if them been vocal will bring a whole set of issues about those in the service that tend to actually be violent when it comes to gender preferences by others.

Because actually the problems doesn't reside with the person that is different in their preferences with the society standards but with those that made others a target.

I hope that the discipline of military servince has not deteriorated enough to cause some ugly results if people are encouraged to show their true selves, even when they are not causing harm to anybody.

reply to post by marg6043

Yeah I got it for waving red capes at the right wing out of bull fighting season.


[edit on 11-10-2009 by grover]

Originally posted by j2000
The majority of people don't care for homosexuals and it's even higher in the Military.

Don't you mean the straight military people? And don't you actually mean SOME of the straight military people? In any case, that's irrelevant. Because one group of people "doesn't care for" another group is not a reason to discriminate against them. Sorry, this country isn't SUPPOSED to work that way.

If the "sensitive" Military men you speak of are "uncomfortable" with gay people being "out" in the military, perhaps they should stay home, where it's safe and they can wrap themselves up in their blankies and be "protected" from the harsh realities of the world outside of the 4 walls of their homes.

Blanket party anyone?

Blankie party, anyone?

You can't cram too much close quarter stuff down the Militaries throat, because they will re-act to it.

Maybe they need to buck up and act like real men instead of whining because they're afraid of the gays.

Most people have in mind an office setting. Even the one's that do this, must go thru the same hard crap in training as the rest.

Yes, and? You think gay people can't make it through boot camp??? Tell that to all the gays serving right now!


[edit on 11-10-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Thanks for that explanation. I honestly had never heard of it before.

Now it makes sense. The term that is.
The actual practice is harsh though.

reply to post by Eye On War



Obama makes a lot of promises, he tells people what they want to hear.

Did he set a date?

Gays question Obama 'don't ask, don't tell' pledge

apnews.myway.com...

[edit on 113131p://bSunday2009 by Stormdancer777]

" The Brass says, 'I don't want a bunch gay people around me when I'm killing kids, It's disgusting'."

-the great prophet Bill Hicks.

And my grandfather was gay, and he served in the Korean War. Actually I've seen a doc. on by pbs showing how WW2 helped the lesbian community by bringing all the rural folk to the city b/c of the war effort.

I don't understand what all the excitement is about. Each of us pass
by homosexual and lesbian people every day on the street, in the
grocery store...everywhere, without even realizing it. It's the same
in the military communities. The military should simply mimic the
society as a whole. There no need for any kind of "policy" IMO.
-cwm

I come from a military family, and did serve 4 years in the military. The question of the don't ask, don't tell policy is pretty moot. For as long as there have been military forces, there have been homosexuals in the military. It is change that people are scared of. If you look at military history in retrospect, and go back, to the start of the United States Military, during the Revolutionary war, both African Americans fought along side of the rest of the militias and died with them. Then the military split into 2 groups, the Colored Corps and the White Corps. During World War II, both services were joined under one flag, and the exact same arguments were given, at one time a black officer was not given the same respect as his white counterpart. But after World War II, going into the Korean conflict, the forces joined together, intergrated and thus were able to show that it did not matter what the color of skin was, in the military when the chips are down, it was the capacity of the person to do the job is all that mattered. In Vietnam, there was no more of the black military man being considered different, just another military individual. I was told a story about a man who was drafted, he told the draft board he was a homosexual, had it in his record. He served his country with honors, and in the end the same country, that he served, kicked him out, cause an officer objected to him being a gay man. The entire point being, to those who are fighting and serving in the US military is not the sexuality of the person with them, but that they are capable of doing the job.
But here is the real question, lets say President Obama does end this, opens the military up for those who are gay to come and serve the country, what will he do for all of the service men and women who were discharged cause they were found out to be gay, what will he do for them?
Personally until I see something happen, all President Obama is doing is just standard politics, nothing more, nothing less. He is the commander in chief, and does have the power to state, let those who are homosexual in as policy, and work on changing the UCMJ.

reply to post by detachedindividual

It's obvious that you and the military are light years apart. Woman are not suitable for combat duties not just because of their lesser physical statue, but also for their feminine psychology -- they are less aggressive than men. Gay women in the US or other military are not the problem -- they can handle non-combat duties. But I just don't want to go and take Hamburger Hill with a guy who has built-in feminine inclinations; I need to know who is who before we go up there.

Your out-of-real-life insights are quite amusing.

Will there now be separate heads- men, women, lesbians, homosexuals, transgenders- pre-op/post-op...? How about housing? Men and women don't bunk together, will open gays have separate bunks, or be mixed in with men or lesbians?

There has been gays in the military since the military started.

I know of a number of gay military veterans and many were Marines that served in Korea, Vietnam and since,
many came out after they had left the military.
Some even now work for the military as civilian employees due to the veteran preference in hiring.
At one hot springs I go to I have seen three cars full of marines (12 marines) from the US marine base at 29 palms show up one week end and they were most definitely gay.
I know they were marines because of there haircuts and there cars bumper stickers.
And the owners of the cars were high ranking NCOs
So any marines out there don't bend over if you drop your soap in the barrack showers at 29 palms.

I can go along with ending don't ask don't tell

But the military must make it very clear to there gay members that ANY form of sexual harassment will not be tolerated.

Originally posted by stander
reply to post by detachedindividual

 

It's obvious that you and the military are light years apart. Woman are not suitable for combat duties not just because of their lesser physical statue, but also for their feminine psychology -- they are less aggressive than men. Gay women in the US or other military are not the problem -- they can handle non-combat duties. But I just don't want to go and take Hamburger Hill with a guy who has built-in feminine inclinations; I need to know who is who before we go up there.

Your out-of-real-life insights are quite amusing.

Now that is an unenlightened point of view. What does having a lesser physical statue and psychology have to do with taking a gun and pulling the triggure or flying a combat aircraft? I have known women that were highly accurate with a gun, nail a small target at 300 yards, and had better endurance than some men. And not all gay men have built in feminine inclinations, and can put a straight man to shame when it comes to physical fitness. When push comes to shove, if in a combat situation, the survival instinct will kick in and you would be surprised at how far a person is capable of going or how much they can do. It is a mindset and pushing yourself to meet the challenges and go the distance.

I'm not real sure when this takes effect, but they've already decided to rename the Air Force to Air Forthhhh.

The Army is changing it's motto from "Be all you can be," to "Be what you wanna be."

Oh yeah.

This is going to go over really well.

Come to think of it, wasn't Obama rumored to have a "special" roommate?

Originally posted by stevegmu
Will there now be separate heads- men, women, lesbians, homosexuals, transgenders- pre-op/post-op...? How about housing? Men and women don't bunk together, will open gays have separate bunks, or be mixed in with men or lesbians?

No the Homasexuls will try to mount others while they sleep and will likely masterbait
with any stray firearms laying around. No doubt people must watch which cups they drink from.

Well, at least the gays are going gay over this news.