Is there a correlation between "enlightenment" and ignorance?

I have noticed that there seems to be a direct correlation between people who think they are enlightened or think they know the real truth and their level of ignorance.

They all appear to suffer from a lack of scientific knowledge, human behavior, basic physics, etc. It is almost as if they were educated by a comic book.

Thoughts?

Edit: I am so enlightened I cannot spell.

[edit on 10-10-2009 by StinkyFeet]

Weeeeell,

What can I say,

Once you learn all the fancy shamancy words, the magic is gone.

Some have defined their own brand of enlightenment, one in which they are aware of their status as hapless victims of the PTB. Some seem proud of their ignorance of science and flaunt it as a purported advantage in not being brainwashed and conditioned by "conventional thinking".

Appealing to many is simply to try to not fit into "the box". It provides a sense of control and self-determination but fails to deliver that. Unfortunately for them, they fit into a box quite neatly-- folded and pressed. Why do I see them use that old cliche so often (you know what)?

This so-called "enlightenment" is based on fear and a lifetime of failure in comprehending existence. This fosters paranoia. Paranoia fosters an inability to discern truth. They found their god, their religion and quick answers and are very devout. There are many ready to capitalize on this market, either for cash or a need to lead a flock.

I understand the phenomenon you describe. It is exactly the opposite of enlightenment teachings which begin with the student gazing inward for understanding, when realized in practice kill fear and empower the individual. The real thing encourages higher learning. Only dogma asks that one shun it.

Ok, I just P-ed all over this board.

reply to post by EnlightenUp


You make an interesting case. I cannot decide to side with your idea or to side with my idea that it is the result of poor education combined with an over abundance of comic books, sci-fi, and video games in ones life.

I think the Matrix may have dropped a certain generations IQ by 20 points.

I think it's broader than being enlightened. I think "being spiritual" (?!?!?) is just as ignorant. People use the slogan, "All is well" way, way, way too much when in fact just the opposite is going on. On the cosmic perspective, all is well, but here on this rock we inhabit, us humans are mucking things up pretty well and drowning in it!

People seem to use spirituality as a means to cop-out of whatever circumstance they're in. If it simply provided a cushion of awareness to observe the real situation at hand, that would be great! Instead, I often see people use it as a means to act superior and apathetic towards people, principals, and practices.

I think the "spiritual revolution" some people tout is nothing more than a collective pressure cooker steaming with insecurities and projections.

People just don't want to face reality, so they find comfort in their fantastically selfish naivety.

reply to post by StinkyFeet


I believe there is truth in The Matrix. I believe it is symbolically advanced.

I believe science is valid within its realm. I recognize that it has limitations in certain domains (the hard problem of consciousness for one, or perhaps that IS it). I recognize that its truth is relative. In my experience, hard science describes relationships through mathematics but doesn't explain. Some things inherently lie outside investigation. Take consciousness, where there is no scientific evidence available for it in the hard sense since it is completely subjective and yet mostly people agree it's a part of reality. Its absolutely personal nature keeps it squarely outside the realm of science.

If it's poor education, perhaps it's more the student than the system. Anyone on these boards have access to the wonderful technology that this "science" thing has brought them so it's definitely not opportunity to seek and find. Perhaps some have a fundamental inability to comprehend certain things, especially the highly abstract.

If you could expound your position on The Matrix, sci-fi, video-games, etc; I could understand why you have, as I read, a negative attitude about it. What seems far out and fanciful now may be reality in the future. We aren't done learning in this realm or any other.

isnt everything derived from thought? so what does that mean? to you or anyone else.

Answer: The Internet

People almost never do a Google search on something they have no opinion on; they do a Google search in order to find justification for whatever belief they already had. The end result is that instead of someone with an incorrect idea, you have someone that's 100% certain of their incorrect idea, and become active advocates for it.

Old thread

Doesn't enlightenment come in many forms?

Just because one is a master scientist that does not mean they don't see the great mystery of it all.

lol, funny those people are probably more right than you think.

Originally posted by andy1033
lol, funny those people are probably more right than you think.

who people?

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

Originally posted by andy1033
lol, funny those people are probably more right than you think.

who people?

Anybody that knows anything about these things, know material words and meanings, and knowledge do not mean much to the subconscious. I wonder who would be more right, between the two, of skeptics and believers.

Wow this thread must be full of enlightened persons so far if enlightenment equals ignorance. Basically what all this boils down to is the idea that you have to "choose sides." That there is no gray area or room for crossover which is ridiculous. Why cannot a scientist be spiritual and why does someone spiritual have to ignore science? These ways of thinking are outdated and if you pay attention you will see that there is more and more crossover between spiritual beliefs and science.

Basically science is proving what a lot of spiritual groups already knew or the mechanics behind it(ex. why positive thinking works, the power of intent, the positive effects of meditation etc.) So there is no choose a side or die. To be spiritual does not mean that you are removed from reality. It often means you are in tune with a more real reality. A reality that encompasses more than the headlines of the newspaper everyday and the rat race of the 9-5, bills, etc.

However, i have not met anyone claiming to be enlightened who is stuck in one rut with their fingers in their ears and eyes closed refusing to see anything else because for most persons who feel they are enlightened (from my experience) believe that their journey and search brought them to where they were and that every bit of information that comes to them is important in some aspect.

As for the complaints about those spiritual persons who believe all is well because it is well in the cosmos.....I dont see why that is a faulty way to think. "As above so below" is mentioned in almost every religion and spiritual practice. So I dont think it is far fetched to stay calm when all around you on Earth is falling apart.

reply to post by andy1033

Anybody that knows anything about these things, know material words and meanings, and knowledge do not mean much to the subconscious.

I agree.

It is all still a great mystery, I don't care how educated one is.

reply to post by StinkyFeet



Not really. Only judging by this website it would appear so.....

Sorry, it's a quip, yes, but, no offense to anyone, the ignorance, along with the America-centrism, displayed in this place is becoming a bit hard on my digestion.
Sorry, I am off-topic. I am leaving, don't mind me.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


The op, thread starter, thinks that we should all be educated in the system. I worked away from my alevels, without being much bothered, as it was not my path in life.

I knew alot of the stuff we where learning was bull,a nd the teachers had no understanding of it whether, they just got from books, and told us to learn whats in books, and they had no understanding of what they where teaching.

Thats not knowledge, that just stuffing your brain with crap, and letting it all out again, it does not need to be true.

Originally posted by acmpnsfal
As for the complaints about those spiritual persons who believe all is well because it is well in the cosmos.....I dont see why that is a faulty way to think. "As above so below" is mentioned in almost every religion and spiritual practice. So I dont think it is far fetched to stay calm when all around you on Earth is falling apart.

The problem is not in people remaining calm while everything around you falls apart. That's a great mentality to have! The problem comes when thinking, "all is well", leads to inaction, or unwillingness to reflect.

[edit on 10-10-2009 by unityemissions]

Originally posted by acmpnsfal
Wow this thread must be full of enlightened persons so far if enlightenment equals ignorance. Basically what all this boils down to is the idea that you have to "choose sides."

Heathen assumer! I never said that. You chose sides, one typical of an enlightementophiliac.

I'll have you burned at the stake for it!

I'm far more aware that to believe that drivel. However, full acceptance of every bit of garbage is not enlightened either. There are warnings to those that believe such things. To assume the middle way is a compromise position between two or more existing sides is folly. It is fallacy, the middle ground fallacy.

If earth is falling apart, it's about time. Really, if you don't feel solid ground even now you're going to be one scared chicken. Some see the destruction of the old while others see their place in the construction of the new. I say to heck with what we've collectively known for so long. The parasites so oft identified are in fact just that and depend on a compatible host.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
It is all still a great mystery, I don't care how educated one is.

I agree in slight degree, however I feel it's more of a mystery the more genuinely educated one is. The one's that want a quick fix of dogma, zipped up neat and clean in a bag, aren't comfortable with mystery but threatened by it.

Originally posted by EnlightenUp

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
It is all still a great mystery, I don't care how educated one is.

I agree in slight degree, however I feel it's more of a mystery the more genuinely educated one is. The one's that want a quick fix of dogma, zipped up neat and clean in a bag, aren't comfortable with mystery but threatened by it.

I agree with that statement.

I have spent an enormous amount of time reading the scientific and the spiritual, one can compliment the other.

Yet I would consider myself far from enlightened.