Abduction In Yukon: North Canol Road and The Insectoids, September 3rd, 1987

"I was also asked if I would like to go on a trip. I replied "Not yet", I felt very honored to be asked and I did want to go, but felt that the time was not right."

I think this is a strange response. I would expect a yes or no answer in response to a question like this under such extraordinary circumstances.

I don't see how this case can be considered any more remarkable than many other abduction/CE4 accounts. And yes, I've taken into consideration the fact that this alledged incident was recalled while conscious and not under hypnosis, plus the bizarre marks on his hands.

This is an interesting account, however, I don't see anything of substance to back it up. I feel the Kelly Cahill encounter is more compelling as there were multiple witnesses to support it, each describing and illustrating the same thing.

reply to post by StevesResearch


Steve

Can you give me an email at: [email protected]
thanks mate?

I have some information you might find interesting.

Cheers,
Matt

Just got your email mate, so no need to worry about this message

[edit on 10-10-2009 by mckyle]

reply to post by StevesResearch


Well it sounds like they took him on the trip anyway, whether he wanted to or not. I don't like the look of his hands at all. I wonder if they hurt at all?

reply to post by ArMaP


No problem ArMap. You're more than welcome

I think the three of us have the same level of drawing talent. Drawing a stickman is about all I can manage

Originally posted by jkrog08
Okay, I just confirmed it, no tests have been done on his hands, other than a doctor examenation.

3. The marks are not Dupuytren's Contracture but are a direct result of some procedure that the aliens performed on Kevin's hands. The obvious speculation would be that the aliens placed some sort of implants in the palm of his hands. Kevin has never had his hands X-rayed so we cannot determine this. The other possibility is that they were caused by tissue sampling or injections.

www.ufobc.ca...

if these aliens were so advanced, and had such advanced equipment, wouldn't you think that the puncture marks are rather crude?
we here on earth can do a better invasive procedure, so as NOT to leave this type of scaring. if they had some type of serum to erase memory, which in my thinking is a pretty advanced medical procedure, they do not have the ability to shape and smooth out a puncture? hhmmm.....

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by jkrog08
Okay, I just confirmed it, no tests have been done on his hands, other than a doctor examenation.

3. The marks are not Dupuytren's Contracture but are a direct result of some procedure that the aliens performed on Kevin's hands. The obvious speculation would be that the aliens placed some sort of implants in the palm of his hands. Kevin has never had his hands X-rayed so we cannot determine this. The other possibility is that they were caused by tissue sampling or injections.

www.ufobc.ca...

if these aliens were so advanced, and had such advanced equipment, wouldn't you think that the puncture marks are rather crude?
we here on earth can do a better invasive procedure, so as NOT to leave this type of scaring. if they had some type of serum to erase memory, which in my thinking is a pretty advanced medical procedure, they do not have the ability to shape and smooth out a puncture? hhmmm.....

There is no actual evidence to suggest these are "puncture wounds".
Your quote omitted the other possibilities:

1. Kevin developed the mild form of Dupuytren's Contracture coincidentally with the incident.

2. Something the aliens did or something during the encounter inadvertently triggered a mild form of Dupuytren's Contracture.

- One possibility is that when Kevin was hit by the beam of light he clenched his fists so forcefully that he damaged the connective tissues in the palm of his hands. Although the medical profession does not state this is a possible way of obtaining the Dupuytren's Contracture, they do not know how it is caused. It is interesting to note that when one clenches their fists, it is the ring and pinky fingers that places the most force on the palm. It is precisely these locations that Dupuytren's Contracture most often appears.

- Another possibility is that the marks were caused inadvertently by the "tests" that the aliens performed on Kevin (which he has no conscious recall of but which the aliens told him that they had performed). Perhaps Kevin clenched his fists on the examination table.

Remember that Kevin has no memory of the procedures and has no memory of the event which caused the deformation on his hands. All he knows is that it happened

Originally posted by jimmyx
if they had some type of serum to erase memory, which in my thinking is a pretty advanced medical procedure, they do not have the ability to shape and smooth out a puncture? hhmmm.....

Probably, but letting him go with a full record of what had happened would be much more risky than letting him go with some marks on the hands that point to nothing.

If I was in charge of the space ship I would have also wanted a clean memory and wouldn't bother about the hands.

If they allowed him a full memory then it would also be a full memory of the pain that was inflicted to get hands like that. That is not something he could possibly live with.

I think ArMaP made a great point about the beings being more concerned with the memory issue as opposed to the physical evidence on the hands. I mean it is only logical to assume that that little amount of scaring (which may not have been able to be avoided or have not even been of any concern) is nominal compared to the witness actually remembering the incident.

It is also important to remember that the human mind is a powerful organ, capable of recalling many things, regardless of any memory blocks imposed (we know this from our own research into amnesic drugs). So I believe that Kevin was totally unconscious during the procedure (if in fact one was performed) and thus would not remember that at all since he was not conscious (that is impossible), the liquid they gave him was likely an attempt to either knock him out again (in a more passive, analgesic way) or erase his memory. But just because someone remembers something they theoretically should not be able to means nothing in my books.

It has been shown time and time again that the best we can do is delay the progression of memories to a recall state, I doubt any alien technology would be able to defeat the very physics of our brain (unless of course they went back in time and didn't abduct the victim at all, but that would defeat the purpose wouldn't it? ) To get back to the "hand issue" that I see arising on this thread, as ArMaP and others have said, why would that be a concern, there is no way we can prove or disprove the origins of the scars, just because someone says they might have came from an alien medical test does not mean that will change the world paradigm and make everyone believe that aliens are visiting the Earth and testing humans, "they" know that as well. I would liken it to a mouse that has been surgically implanted by humans going back into it's cage with other mice, the mouse that was taken as no way of proving what happened so at best the physical evidence is 'interesting'. Of course our situation is a little more advanced and complicated than that but I hope we all get the point.

Great discussion so far everyone, I am glad to see this case get analyzed like it as by the bright minds of ATS members. Thanks again to everyone for your input, it is MUCH appreciated.

Krog excellent research and work as always HOWEVER! I know what you are thinking when you see that word. I am definately not buying what this man is selling. The problems that I have spotted with my Skeptical mind are:

Based on the available information gathered on Kevin from both 1st hand investigator accounts and accounts of Kevin’s friends there appears to be no reason why Kevin would be lying about his reported encounter.

There APPEARS to be no reason. No personal fame or fortune, however, further down his friends stated:

Friday, September 4th, 1987: Kevin’s two friends arrive and go fishing, Kevin does not mention incident. Reportedly one of Kevin’s friends want to go out that night and watch for UFOs, nothing is seen. The remaining trip goes by without incident.

But his friends want to go and watch UFO's? So apparently, it would appear that they have probably done this before. I think it is safe to assume that they have looked for UFO's before and probably speculated on their cargo, personel and technologies. But what really got me was that the DAY AFTER they search for UFO's Kevin omits when asked about his trip? Why:

One of his friends asks him later in the day what all happened during his trip, he omits the day of the abduction.

Why would you omit a story to tell your friends? Yet, he found it worthy to be shared with another friend?

and actually moved out of country for a time after the incident, but still talked about it in a private letter to one of his friends.

Does this make sense? Why would he not tell his UFO hunting buddies, but yet tells another friend? I personally do not think so, the sequence of logic does not add up in my mind.

_________________________________________________________


My Conclusions:



Kevin is DEFINATELY NOT lying, however, I do believe that his memory is a result of a motorcycle accident resulting in unconsciousness and hallucinations in Stage 1 of sleep leading to REM sleep.

Evidence for this theory:



The road is definately not one for a bike to be used on. The road is clearly not bike friendly, it appears to me a mixture of dirt and rocks. But then again it could be asphalte, but still the road is definatelty to dangers for a bike to be used on (Bumps and uneven road), and yes I asked my dad who used to race bikes what he thought of the road and he agreed with me, so I am not pulling this out of my rear and inserting it..lol..

This is also highly important:

Thursday, September 3rd, 1987: Kevin headed out around 6:30AM on his motorbike to go moose hunting. At around 7:00AM the incident occurred After leaving the area some 14 hours later Kevin returns to the RCMP trailer and falls asleep, but hears a “buzzing sound”. At this point he recalls almost fully the incidents of the day.

I wish they would have stated what time Kevin went to bed, but none the less Kevin awakes at 6:30AM a rather early time and in his own words; Kevin was EXCITED and anxious to go hunting, so chances are Kevin did not fully awake before getting onto his bike. He probably just took off, not taking the proper time to awaken and already on the road Between 6:30AM and 7:00AM proves my point, in my mind at least that he did not wake up fully. Also the days before he was probably sleep deprived from driving to his friends cabin or trailer whatever it was. Maybe tossing some beers back and staying up late the day before the incident.

While driving his bike, he stopped to pee, but Kevin DID NOT begin to walk from here. Kevin got back on his bike and began driving again, he then gets into an accident and begins to pass out and sleep in unconsciousness.

At this point he claims to have heard a “loud metallic clunk” sound behind him around the corner of the road

The loud metallic clunk was probably him wrecking his bike and misplacing the incident during a later period. During this crash Kevin is on the road in sleep stage 1, which can bring about hallucinations before fulling falling asleep. Kevin imagines these beings and the craft that he said: dematerialized and reappeared. Probably a hallucinations and Kevin then see's the beings and history takes its course from their until we get to this:

bright flash of light

This happens a lot to people who waken from being KNOCKED OUT:

A personal experience:

The first time was a baseball that I caught square between my eyes when I was 12 years old. It was a hard line drive and I thought I had a bead on that rascal, but I missed with the glove and it got me. I remember a bright flash of light, then I woke up several minutes later with my Dad, my coach and a lot of other concerned people gathered around me. I didn't realize that any time had passed.

Getting Knocked out

And then Kevin stated:

I instantly felt paralyzed and was convinced time had stopped, everything was black, no sound. I tried to yell "No!" but all that came out was a distorted grunt.

Yes! Paralyzed because he was dreaming and in REM sleep, your body produces a chemical to help you remain still from harming yourself when dreaming. Time stopped because of his perception to being knocked out.

I turned around to get my bike and for some reason it was not there, then I noticed it was on the other side of the road.

Because he wrecked it. Yet the problem I have is how did the keys get into his hands and how was the bike still upright? Thats the main problems that I have, I explain this by him being disoriented and that the keys were actually in the ignition and that the bike was actually laying down. Kevin fixed his bike and went about his day. The hardest parts to remember when you awaken from being unconcious is the First hour.. And he remembered them by continuing where his dream began, with him parking his bike to pee (The last probable memory that he had).

He replaced what he could not remember with his dream, which he could remember. The dream about him being on the ship was probably just that a dream and here is why... Dreams are best explained as being associative memory, meaning that they help us file away events in our day or week to be filed and remembered. Since Kevin remembered Aliens, he had a dream to associate aliens with another event. For instance:

You saw this really pretty girl in your day. That night you have a dream of her dancing. You have never seen her dance before, but your mind uses that to remember her.

Also why do aliens have to speak english? I would BELIEVE and hope that they did not speak our language. So I add that to the list as well.

7:00AM and returned at around 9:00PM missing time, must have been quite the fall. I would say that perhaos he was incorrect in his time, it is not stated how he knew what time it was. So I am not sure this is entirely correct.



Well, is not strange that the marks are on the same part of his hands. I could explain this with his bike handles, but sicne I do not know what type his bike was I can only explain what I know and what my dad knows.



This is an example of a clucth on the bikes handles. But this clutch faces toward the driver on the inside of the handle. If his bike was designed like this, it would explain those marks on his hands. And yes the marks could be there permanently, according to my dad, he stated that if the impact was hard enough for his hands to be pressed down into the clutch it could have moved the meat in his hands upward and leave his hands the way they are which would add evidence that Kevin was going way to fast on these roads. And of course he did not notice them, they are almost unnoticeable until you actually look at his hand. I could imagine the surprise...lol..

Personally, I think he is telling the "truth", but the "Truth" is not what really happened. He got into an accident, had a dream, and started this from that dream. Of course, I could be completely wrong..lol.. And this could have been an alien event! But I doubt it.

Again excellent work Krog Keep it up and I will see you on SKYPE!!!

[edit on Oct 10th 2009 by TheMythLives]

[edit on Oct 10th 2009 by TheMythLives]

reply to post by jkrog08


Many in the field have reported that the small greys are in fact clones....sterile little workers...the tall greys are highly intelligent and may be in charge of experiments....this is what i have gathered over the years poking around the genre.

reply to post by TheMythLives


Great post TheMythLives!

This is what I was thinking as well. A plausible theory in my opinion.

reply to post by TheMythLives


I was thinking identical. His friends obviously believe in UFOs yet he doesnt think they will believe in his aliens... EVEN when he has the hand holes as proof?! Plus they're hunting friends... its something to bond with good friends not random people...

I dont know that it is sleep but how hard is it to fake anyway? Name a city no one can easily get to, with unverifiable facts, only first name, hey I know Vladimir from Irkusk who was abducted blah blah... and people will believe it...

Besides in katekism they call these holes stigmata

reply to post by Ridhya


They are not considered stigmata unless there are marks where the nails would have been in Jesus' hands which is considered as center palm.

reply to post by TheMythLives


Disappointing post and made more so by the use of a tired old argument that has never held any water called "sleep paralysis" or "he might have hit his head and hallucinated".

It is actually laughable that even when someone is abducted fully awake, on a motorbike, during daylight hours that somehow people like you can make the REM dream paralysis try and fit snugly in there?


[edit on 11-10-2009 by spacecowgirl]

reply to post by StevesResearch


A great post? With the conclusion that it was all a dream? You have to be kidding that this theory has you completely satisfied?

reply to post by TheMythLives

It's a good idea, but I have a doubt about the bike handles.

First, I want to see if understand it right. Could you please explain better how you think he could have made those marks with the handles/levers?

Thanks.

Here in Alaska there are many unconnected reports of encounters with Montreselles (Insectiods) They are a brutal race primarily interested in minerals and power. They have been behind the more surgical abductions, and are avid users of E.B.E.'s (extraterrestrial biological entities, short greys) You need to see of some of the vegetative writing they do here. 59°46'27.85"N
150°57'28.24"W

Serious, this isn't some crop circle BS, this is a strange unreported phenomenon. No one in the area knows what it is. Across the Bay from this, in Homer, is where Fort Alice was located. This was where the first Delta Time antennas were located, and subsequently aimed at the town from the ridge above.
It was an undisclosed underground ufo research base that my grandmother worked at during the war. 99% is below ground, and they dozed the above ground portion a few years back. It is located here
59°42'44.07"N
151°32'20.65"W
The underground entrance is located here
59°42'33.72"N
151°27'23.43"W
I'd show you where the ship is parked but then I might get in trouble. :[
I've been to this base many times under constant observation and can tell you that it is real, and that the Montreselles and E.B.E.'s are real as well, and are used for nefarious purposes by many governments.

Originally posted by ArMaP
Could you please explain better how you think he could have made those marks with the handles/levers?

Thanks.

I am not claiming that this is the only possible explanation, but I want to mention that there is a medical condition called Dupuytren's Disease", which MAY be the cause of the marks.

Another sign or symptom of Dupuytren’s contracture is known as a dermal or skin pit. The pit may be single or multiple, and appears as a small, local, deep indentation of the skin. This may be the first finding, it may come later, or it may never appear at all.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/de7ecc8ada97.jpg[/atsimg]

The pit usually is located in the palm but also can be in the fingers. This indentation occurs due to a contraction of the connective tissue fibers from the palmar fascia to the skin. The skin is drawn down to form the pit.

Read more here:
www.indianahandcenter.com...

reply to post by EliyahuHaNave


Interesting post! Could you provide links on google maps for those locales at all?
Would like to hear more of your experiences if you are able?