I noticed a new Progressive Liberal tactic over the last few days

I noticed a new tactic being put in place by Progressive Liberals. This is the tactic where they try to say they are doing all these things (Gov't controlled healtchcare, etc) because they are Christians and this is what Jesus would have done.

The first time I noticed this was when I watched Michael Moore get interviewed by Hannity. I actually thought MM won the debate, and was very sly. Now don't get me wrong I hate Michael Moore and his communist agenda.

Then I noticed it a few moore times when I was watching MSNBC. Seems like they decided to take the if you can't beat them join them approach when it comes to the powerful evangelical political leaders.

Keep an eye out and see if you notice this tactic being used over and over again, over the next days, weeks, and months to come.

Edit:Because I suddenly forgot how to spell or type

[edit on 9-10-2009 by StinkyFeet]

reply to post by StinkyFeet


Apparently you've failed to realize that Conservative Evangelical Republicans don't have a lock on Christianity. Just because they're the loudest ones and the ones that try to legislate morality doesn't mean they are the more Christ-like of the "flock".

The Bible is open to a wide variety of interpretations, and there is ample evidence in Scripture that Christ would have supported many progressive policies.

Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry and fed thee: thirsty and gave thee drink? 38 Or when did we see thee a stranger and took thee in? Or naked and covered thee? 39 Or when did we see thee sick or in prison and came to thee? 40 And the king answering shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.

Matthew Ch. 25

That's just one example. The good book is a very good tool for ideology!

Well, ask yourself this: is capitalism, a system that is built on greed and material wealth and based on the exploitation of the poor (both in the sense of the workers and the effects on third world countries), and often buddies with horrendous dictators and human rights abusers while promoting rampant consumerism and self gratification really in line with the teachings of Jesus? Is it really?

5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of
heaven.

5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness:
for they shall be filled.

5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

My favorite is Acts 4:32-34, which religious conservatives seem to ignore because it foreshadows the ideals of communism as written by Marx by thousands of years:

32All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. 33With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all. 34There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales

One of the most influential philosophers on Christianity's spread and development was Plato:

The Platonic concept of Forms had an enormous influence on Hellenic Christian views of God. In those philosophies, Forms were the ideals of every object in the physical world, and objects in the physical world were merely shadows of those perfect forms. Platonic Philosophers were able to theorize about the forms by looking at objects in the material world, and imagining what the "Perfect" tree, or "Perfect" man would be. The Aristotelian view of God grew from these Platonic roots, arguing that God was the Infinite, or the "Unmoved Mover."

Hellenic Christians and their medieval successors then applied this Form-based philosophy to the Christian God. Philosophers took all the things that they considered Good -- Power, Love, Knowledge, Size, and posited that God was "infinite" in all these respects. They then concluded that God was omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and benevolent. Further, since God was perfect, any change would make him less than perfect, so they asserted that God was unchanging, or immutable.

Hellenistic philosophy and Christianity

Meanwhile, Plato had also written The Republic, also influential on our founding fathers.

One of the most striking features of the ideal city is its abolition of private families and sharp limitation on private property in the two guardian classes.

Plato's Ethics and Politics in The Republic

What about the Catholic theologian Tommaso Campanella, who wrote City of the Sun? Though not really socialism, it contains many elements:

The City of the Sun is presented as a dialogue between "a Grandmaster of the Knights Hospitaller and a Genoese Sea-Captain". Inspired by Plato's Republic and the description of Atlantis in Timaeus, it describes a theocratic society where goods, women and children are held in common. It also resembles the City of Adocentyn in the Picatrix, an Arabic guide to magical town planning. In the final part of the work, Campanella prophesies — in the veiled language of astrology — that the Spanish kings, in alliance with the Pope, are destined to be the instruments of a Divine Plan: the final victory of the True Faith and its diffusion in the whole world. While one could argue that Campanella was simply thinking of the conquest of the New World, it seems that this prophecy should be interpreted in the light of a work written shortly before The City of the Sun, The Monarchy in Spain, in which Campanella exposes his vision of a unified, peaceful world governed by a theocratic monarchy.

City of the Sun

So what is more in line with Christian tradition? The ideals of socialism and communism, or capitalism?

Originally posted by Someone336
My favorite is Acts 4:32-34, which religious conservatives seem to ignore because it foreshadows the ideals of communism as written by Marx by thousands of years:

32All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. 33With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all. 34There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales

So what is more in line with Christian tradition? The ideals of socialism and communism, or capitalism?

Here's a good one:

"Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." - Matthew 19:24

But what do I know? I'm but a lowly devil.

reply to post by Avenginggecko


I think you misunderstood my intent. I am not saying a person cannot be both Progressive and Christian. I am just saying that they have never really used that as a means to sell their case before, or at least not commonly. My intent was to point out that they are starting to point that out all of the sudden whereas before they did not.

I have a problem with those who use the words of Christ to support socialism.

When Christ admonished his followers that we should look after the least among us, he was speaking of personal action and not setting the stage for Karl Marx.

Those who truly seek to follow the words of Christ take it upon themselves to either take care of others themselves or to join with others of like mind to do so voluntarily, not as a government mandate.

If we take Moore seriously and at his word, we must conclude that Fidel Castro is follower of Christ because Cuba has a medical clinic on every corner, or so we're told.

There is no such thing as left or right, so why you still talking about it here.

Both sides are just the rubbish thats played in front of your eyes on things like tv.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I have a problem with those who use the words of Christ to support socialism.

I have a problem with those who use the words of christ to support war and rightwing policies.... but obviously you have no issue with that do you?

Regarding socialism, I'd suppose that'd include christ advocating for socialist ideals as well? How dare he use his own words in the name of socialism!

SG

reply to post by StinkyFeet


I didnt know the rightwing had a monopoly on christianity... although I shouldnt be surprised... this is pro-capitalist values to a religous tone after all

But seriously, there are liberal christians too. I guess the argument here is that nobody should use christianity to push forth their own political agenda.... good on you to start with liberals... but theres a tonne of your fellow conservatives to pick through as well.

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


Huh. I wonder what political party the original Christians would belong to.

I also didn't know that Marx advocated governmental mandates... I can't find anything like that in the Communist Manifestos. I did find this though:

Marx and Locke were aligned along these terms although the ideas of Karl Marx did not have the same implicit trust in the inherent “good” of government, especially if a ruling class were supporting a government. According to Marx, government was not an entity through which change could be brought about. Rather, for change to happen and for the class struggles to be resolved it was necessary for the people to rise up and bring about the necessary adjustments to society.

In the words of John Locke, Karl Marx is also suggesting and affirming the idea that, “As usurpation is the exercise of power which another has a right to, so tyranny is the exercise of power beyond right, which nobody can have a right to” (Locke 95). While Marx was not advocating anarchy or calling for an abolition of government itself, he was wary of the problems associated with government, particularly when it was based on uneven notions of class. He saw that there were inherent problems in a government where there was an upper class or ruling elite and advocated a government that was part of the people—a government that was not based on the principles and revolution-inspiring problems class inequity. Despite the problems Marx had with government he was willing to look toward it as a chance for hope if his party could be in power. At one point he states, in one of the important quotes from "The Communist Manifesto", “The immediate aim of the Communists is the same as that of all other proletarian parties: Formation of the proletariat into a class, overthrow of the bourgeoisie society, conquest of political power” (Marx 288).

Comparison of Marx and Locke : Views on Government, Property and Labor

Marx wasn't the only person influenced by Locke:

The Founding Fathers drew heavily upon English philosopher John Locke in establishing America’s First Principles, most notably the recognition of unalienable rights, the Social Compact, and limited government.

www.americassurvivalguide.com...

[edit on 12-10-2009 by Someone336]