Were Stand-Down Intercept Orders Given On Morning Of 911?

Branching off from another thread...

reply to post by weedwhacker

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by scott3x

 

I did scan the links, and it is the same stuff that has been presented over and over again, sometimes right here on ATS.

Pre-911, planes going off course were intercepted all the time.

That is another of those sorts of almost-but-not-quite-correct fallacies that people throw out as "facts" when, in fact they are nothing more than hyperbole.

By using the phrase "all the time" it makes it seem as if it was a daily occurence, and EVERY time there was a magical successful "intercept".

How about showing the data, the histories of all of these intercepts?

I've seen it before, but I don't have it on hand. However, I think you might like to take a look at this excerpt from an article over at prisonplanet, but originally from Rense.com. It actually partially backs you up concerning the ANG; it states that both the ANG and the USAF share responsibility for intercepts, although it doesn't make it clear how these powers are divided...

** TOP_VIEW **
The Big Picture

12-9-1

TOP_VIEW conducted a phone interview on 12.09.01 with a spokesperson for the U.S. Air Force, located in New York. This person was ordered to the Ground Zero, Pennsylvania and Pentagon 9.11 crash sites within several days of the events, as part of an Air Force investigative probe. Crucial information was conveyed to us, related specifically to the entire matter of IF or WHEN FAA/ATC personnel alerted appropriate Air National Guard/Air Force units, that four large passenger jets were significantly off course and that all standard communications with these craft had been broken.

We were informed that standard procedures fully in effect on the morning of September 11 were absolutely followed to a "T" by U.S. Air Traffic Control personnel; that via established channels and according to established guidelines, U.S. Air National Guard and Air Force units -- which are ALWAYS on alert to be scrambled for intercepts of either distressed OR suspicious and possibly hostile aircraft 365/24/7 in these United States -- WERE DEFINITELY contacted by FAA/ATC on 9.11 IMMEDIATELY after Air Traffic Control had become aware of the developing situation with the jets.

The Air Force spokesman confirmed that after the alerts and requests for intercepts of the aircraft were received from FAA/ATC, orders from the HIGHEST LEVEL of the executive branch of the federal government were received, demanding that the Air Force stand down and NOT follow through with established scramble/intercept procedures that morning until further notice! The U.S. Air Force's hands (wings) were DELIBERATELY TIED on the morning of September 11, until such time that the horrifying treacherous, murderous deeds had been carried out by the BushMob.

Cheney, while being interviewed by Tim Russert on NBC TV's 'MEET THE PRESS on September 16th, claimed that the military needed authorization from the president before scrambling fighter jets to intercept American Airlines Flight 77. THIS IS A BIG, BIG, LIE, plain and simple.

For example: remember two years ago, when golf pro Payne Stewart's small PRIVATE Lear jet went off-course and out of communication just after takeoff in Florida?
Within MINUTES, on an immediate alert from the FAA, U.S. Air Force and Air Guard jets were scrambled to intercept Stewart's jet and see what the heck was up (not that it helped much in that case...): "Several Air Force and Air National Guard fighter jets, plus an AWACS radar control plane, helped the Federal Aviation Administration track the runaway Learjet and estimate when it would run out of fuel." --CNN, 10.26.99

Interceptors were in direct proximity to Stewart's seriously messed-up aircraft within about TEN MINUTES of him having taken off. NOBODY had to go pull Clinton away from Vice-president Monica Lewinsky and get him to AUTHORIZE the INTERCEPT of Payne Stewart's jet that day.

Moreover, according to the same CNN article: "...officers on the Joint Chiefs were monitoring the Learjet on radar screens inside the Pentagon's National Military Command Center. -- CNN, 10.26.99

Air Traffic Controllers request military intercepts of private and commercial planes REGULARLY. Sometimes it's because communications have broken off; sometimes it's to inform a pilot that his plane has gone off course; other times it's to observe the situation directly - for instance, to see who's actually flying the plane and things like that. None of this requires presidential approval.

But there's more to how Cheney twisted the truth here regarding what is PROVABLY one of the biggest holes in the FedGov's 9.11 tapestry of lies; since someone of even the most minimal intelligence would realize that such intercepts are VERY common, do NOT require any "presidential authorization" and SHOULD HAVE TAKEN PLACE on September 11.

So what arch-spin-meister Cheney did was to very subtly and cleverly fudge the distinction between a common, often-executed intercept and a SHOOT-DOWN of an aircraft already determined to be hostile.

Cheney put the entire situation in the context that there was a terribly troubling, agonizing ethical decision to be made whether or not to shoot down a number of passenger aircraft which "seemed" to be hostile, and that only the president (who was after all VERY busy reading rabbit stories to Florida schoolkids at the time) could have authorized this shoot-down.

Well. first of all, there was no NEED for any order to SHOOT DOWN; there was only a need for Air Force/Air Guard units -- which are always standing by to respond to FAA alerts about troubled and/or suspicious aircraft -- to carry out standard intercept procedures.

And keep in mind that military interceptors (or '"escorts") already have clear "instructions to act." These instructions can be read online in detailed manuals from the FAA and the Department of Defense. The instructions cover everything from minor emergencies to hijackings. If a problem is definitely serious, high-ranking military officers from the NMCC (National Military Command Center) in the Pentagon can take charge.

-www.prisonplanet.com...

reply to post by weedwhacker

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by scott3x

 

The ONE that keeps getting pointed to is golfer Payne Stewart's LearJet....it was a very unusual cirmcumstance, it was both pilots incapacitated because of unfortunate chain of events, AND the airplane continued, on autopilot, as programmed before the pilots lost consciousness...AND the transponder was still merrily squawking away...rather EASY to find an airplane like that. Rather more difficult to find ones that don't WANT to be found....

Admittedly, not knowing the planes altitude would make it a bit more hard to find, but I don't think it'd be -that- hard; you'd still see the dot on the radar, unless it were flying -very- close to the ground, as the pentaplane seemed to do at the ending stretch; but if the jets had been sent to intercept the plane earlier, I don't think it would have been hard to do. I certainly haven't seen any official source say this at any rate. Most importantly, nothing was sent out until it was far too late. Also, don't you think if a plane turned off its transponder, they should be even more interested in what's going on, rather than less?

Originally posted by weedwhacker

You didn't quote a single thing I wrote in it, and you seemed to respond to almost nothing in it as well.

I didn't have time to parse your entire post, nor ALL of the cited sources to do it justice. Still don't have that kind of time, at the moment.

Well hopefully one day you will. Surely you realize that if what it says is true, you'd be missing out on some pretty valuable information indeed.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
I just cannot understand how people can seriously think of this as reality... it is fiction, based solely on hints of truth and unconnected co-incidences.

Weedwhacker, you can do better than this. First, you say that you don't have the time to review the information I've provided, then you say that it's fiction? Can't you see that you don't have enough information to make such an assertion?

Originally posted by weedwhacker
BUT, it also is well off the topic, here.

Well, that's no longer the case.

Were Stand-Down Intercept Orders Given On Morning Of 911?

Definitely!

What kind of 1st world country with supposedly the best defense system in the world allows 4 planes to fly around willy nilly and then crash into buildings, one of them ironically being the dept. of defense....it's just laughable!

Mineta, Cheney and Athe orders still stand@ controversy:
Further evidence that Vice President Cheney=s order on 9/11 regarding
Flight 77 was not a shoot-down order, but a stand down order - an order
NOT to shoot the plane down.

www.journalof911studies.com...

Air Defenses Stood Down On 9.11
After ATC Alerts Given
Dozens of air bases were within minutes of both 9.11 targets
by R. Anderson
December 23, 2001

www.ratical.org...

Was There a 9/11 Stand Down?
Who Commanded our Air Force to 'Stand Down' on 911
by Victor Thorn

www.wanttoknow.info...


Yes, there was a stand down order and it was giving by Dick Cheney.
It was Cheney who had control of NORAD on 911 and that is an undeniable fact.

reply to post by scott3x


Do yourself a favor and read the NTSB report about Payne Stewart's airplane, before you continue to use Prisonplanet and embarrass yourself. Ah heck, since I am here, Payne Stewart's plane wasnt intercepted within 10 minutes....it was over an hour before the plane was intercepted. What Alex Jones (and appearantly you) miss in the Payne Stewart report is:

At 0933:38 EDT (6 minutes and 20 seconds after N47BA acknowledged the previous clearance), the controller instructed N47BA to change radio frequencies and contact another Jacksonville ARTCC controller. The controller received no response from N47BA. The controller called the flight five more times over the next 4 1/2 minutes but received no response.

About 0952 CDT,7 a USAF F-16 test pilot from the 40th Flight Test Squadron at Eglin Air Force Base (AFB), Florida, was vectored to within 8 nm of N47BA. About 0954 CDT, at a range of 2,000 feet from the accident airplane and an altitude of about 46,400 feet, the test pilot made two radio calls to N47BA but did not receive a response".

Alex Jones looks at this and says "See?? The Air Force got to Payne's airplane in 19 minutes. People who actually read see that the loss of contact is listed as 0933 EDT and the intercept is listed as 0952 CDT. The airplane had crossed a time zone. So when the F-16 got to within visual range of the airplane it was 0952 CDT (OR 1052 EDT). An hour and nineteen minutes from loss of contact to intercept.

I will toss in that according to the NTSB report, the Air Force was notified at 0900 CDT.

reply to post by Mark_Amy

What kind of 1st world country with supposedly the best defense system in the world allows 4 planes to fly around willy nilly and then crash into buildings, one of them ironically being the dept. of defense....it's just laughable!

I am using this quote as an example of the misinformation that so many on the truth side of the house operate under. Yes, the United States has the most capable military in the world....when it is deployed. However, our Continental Air Defense that was in place on 9/11/01 was a joke compared to what we had up until 1991. In 1991, our political leadership, awash in the euphoria of the end of the Cold War, ended our practice of having jets in the air 24/7 and jets on the ground loaded and ready to go at a moments notice. We went from having dozens of jets on alert to having fourteen. Fourteen jets to protect an entire continent.

It doesnt matter that there were 12 Air Force bases in the region, as one of the writers in impressme's post wrote about. If there are not jets loaded with weapons and a pilot in the alert shack...those bases might as well not even be there in regards to homeland defense.