Financial planning for worst? Advice needed.

I'm just as worried about the economy and the state of the nation as everyone else.
Aside from storing food, buying gold, stockpiling weapons and moving out of the city, what other practical steps can you take to protect yourself?

I have about $14K in my 401K account. Since I'm not close to retirement, I can't touch it without incurring large fees, but I can take a loan out. If the dollar is going to be worthless soon, would it be a good idea to use that money to buy a "bug out" cabin in the middle of nowhere? Two years ago, I pulled my 401K funds out of stocks and switched to money market funds.

Since my 401K is partially funded through my job, there's not much flexibility in terms of where the money can go. I didn't lose much money during the first "mini" crash, but I don't know if I'll be as lucky the next time around. Even with 2 jobs, I live paycheck to paycheck. If I had to sell any assets, it would probably be all of the music equipment I own.

While I don't consider my neighborhood "dangerous," it's crowded enough that I worry what would happen if things DID hit the fan. Oh, and I work in Manhattan. I know! I know! That's probably the last place I should be should SHTF. Single female living with her cat in a studio apartment and the nearest relative is hundreds of miles away? Not an ideal situation.

So, ATSers. What would you do in my shoes? Quit your job and move? Withdraw what's left in your retirement fund on the hunch that there will be no retirement funds to speak of? Move back home with the folks? They live in the suburbs of Atlanta, so maybe it's a little bit safer?

Some of my friends say I'm even lucky to have one job, much less two and I'd be crazy to quit because of I'm afraid of how the future will unfold in the next few months.

You do need to realize that when the SHTF like we all think it will, that you are not going to need money.

What will there be to buy?

Learn self sufficiency. For everything.
Once you have that, then sustainability.

reply to post by diabolique


You should contact your 401(k) administrator and ask them what conditions your plan provides for taking out a loan. Most plans have a limited set of conditions that you "may" qualify for in taking out a loan on your account. Find out what they are.

I would consider investing in land.

14k should be enough to buy at least an acre somewhere remote.

With the state of the economy there are lot's of good deals to be found in the real estate market.

Just don't take on any debt, but that's just me.

And yes you are lucky to have two jobs.


[edit on 8-10-2009 by lucentenigma]

Don't worry about it. Your employer has probably put in half the money. 20% of what you put in you saved in taxes. So only 40% of it is your money to start with. Even if you leave it in cash, inflation could go up 60% and your puchasing power will not have decreased relative to what you actually put in. And going forward your employer will immediately give you free money. If they match fully you are making 100% on your money from day one. So don't stop by any means.

The other thing to think about is what if you are wrong. What if it's not the end. What is the opportunity cost of burying your money in a hole? It's not like American companies only do business in America. What hurts them here, also tends to help them overseas. Even if we completely replace the old currency we will still move forward with new money. Most people also don't realize that 401K contribution the last 2.5 years put in equities have actually made you money. Maybe not enough to overcome losses if you had a large balance previously, but enough to not make it such a calamity. Dollar cost averaging with monthly contributions has been a godsend for 401k investors. I would bet that going to cash has cost you money.

If I were you I would throw it all in an age based option, forget about it, and go enjoy life. Or if you have an advisor to your 401k ask them what you should do based on your age. Analayzing your risk tolerance will be a futile exercise at this point.

Originally posted by MissMegs
You do need to realize that when the SHTF like we all think it will, that you are not going to need money.

What will there be to buy?

Learn self sufficiency. For everything.
Once you have that, then sustainability.

What she said.

i was going to suggest that you roll over your present 401k

into a ROTH Account...and look hard at the Tocquevill Gold Fund
finance.yahoo.com...
most recently around $55.00 per share....or + 43% annual return !


but alas.... they only allow new accounts with a minimum $25K to get started --> Ammend to $1000. & $100 min contributions


perhaps you can do the same ROTH roll-over but with a gold fund with a lower entry requirement than $25k


it is too late & too involved to buy a AppalacianMountain cabin
& do a homestead lifestyle at the drop of the hat... it would take a year or two to network with the resident neighbors & get accepted ~ unless you
envision a seige mentality lifestyle~
((But, you see that's NOT anything near Financial Planning))

you've got 3-5 years before you need drastic measures, IMHO

[edit on 8-10-2009 by St Udio]

True enough. I just figured that I'd better use my soon-to-be-worthless money to buy tangible assets while I still can. I'm not a proponent of buying gold, but using money to buy food and a safe place to stay seems like the sensible thing to do.

Originally posted by MissMegs
You do need to realize that when the SHTF like we all think it will, that you are not going to need money.

What will there be to buy?

Learn self sufficiency. For everything.
Once you have that, then sustainability.

Thanks for the advice. I'll look into opening a ROTH account.

I've thought about where I would move. Funny you mentioned the Appalachian mountains. A few years ago, a college buddy of mine invited me to visit his hometown in Kentucky (he was making a documentary about cock-fighting). I was shocked when I saw that the town he grew up in was this poor backwater with run-down motor homes nestled in the mountains. This sounds ridiculous and naive in retrospect, but my first thought was "there's poor white people in America?! Who knew?" The only poor white people I saw growing up in New York was the random homeless guy on the street raving about the apocalypse or the squatter punks and junkies hanging out in Greenwich Village. Oh. My. god. I felt like I was in the Twilight Zone. Within 24 hours, everyone knew who I was, where I was from and what church I attended. I didn't even have to open my mouth, and they knew that I was a Yankee. I never felt so out of place. I would walk into a store and all eyes would be on me.

My second was shock was learning that "dry counties" existed, and if you wanted to drink a beer, you had to drive to the bar in the next town a few miles away.

I'll probably have to stick closer to home. Maybe close to the Catskills or the Adirondack mountains? New England? I have friends that live in Cape Cod and upstate, NY. I wouldn't want to live anywhere that unfamiliar where I feel like an outsider. If SHTF, they'd come gunning for me, I figure. I'd rather be somewhere where I can quietly blend in and people mind their own business.




Appalachian mountains wouldn't be my first choice.

Originally posted by St Udio


i was going to suggest that you roll over your present 401k

into a ROTH Account...and look hard at the Tocquevill Gold Fund
finance.yahoo.com...
most recently around $55.00 per share....


but alas.... they only allow new accounts with a minimum $25K to get started


perhaps you can do the same ROTH roll-over but with a gold fund with a lower entry requirement than $25k


it is too late & too involved to buy a AppalacianMountain cabin
& do a homestead lifestyle at the drop of the hat... it would take a year or two to network with the resident neighbors & get accepted ~ unless you
envision a seige mentality lifestyle~

you've got 3-5 years before you need drastic measures, IMHO

Like someone said, we don’t know what’s going to happen in the future. But I doubt very much you’ll have to “Bug” out to the Hills anytime soon. There’s no reason for that anywhere on the cards. So I’d lose the Cabin or land in the Mountains Idea.

If the economy takes a nose dive, so will land and property values, They already under a lot of pressure. In fact October is one of the Months that stocks either go down or Raleigh. I believe it’s the month that they have the most movement.

The Gov is also about to do two things, one pass the Health Bill, whether you like it or not. Two, they getting ready for another “stimulus’ payout. This news I heard last night, and of course they not going to use the name Stimulus. But who cares, its still spending.

Both these not good for the Dollar.

Other future Possible events on the cards that can effect the Dollar. Bloomberg sued the Federal reserve under the information act to release information about the Bank bail outs. Bloomberg won the case and last month the Fed were ordered to release the Information. The Fed appealed saying that we’ll have a run on the banks and a huge economic crash if this information is made Public. The Fed had a month to make the appeal, of course they did it on the last day possible September 30th. What I don’t know is when this hearing will take place to review the case)I’m still trying to find this info. But that being said, if the Fed lose the Appeal and have to release this info to the Public. We will have a run on the banks( run on the banks means the bank stock come crashing down, and the banks close their doors so you cannot draw money- even your cards will not work) and the markets will crash along with the bank stocks. Because the Fed have ‘Corporate Business on their side so “they’ll make this happen’.

If the Fed lives another day. Ron Paul is trying to get a Bill HR1207 passed to audit the Fed. Same thing as above SWHTF. The Only thing stopping this going forward for a hearing on the floor is Nancy Pelosi. As speaker she has to get it heard and then they can move onto voting on it. Again who knows what’s going to happen with this.

Then there is the always ever present talk of someone crashing the Dollar and moving the US Currency to the Amero. ? Who knows. The evidence of this lies in talk about New World Order. And if you’ve been watching T.V over the last few months. Those words have been said a lot. Here is the reality, American(s) will not change and do radical things, unless ‘something Big happens. “Peal Harbor” “ Communists are slowly taking over every country-Vietnam” “911- Iraq” So that being said, if someone wants to change our currency to the Amero! They have to make the dollar crash and worthless before we decide its o.k to give it up. Then you might get cents on the dollar for your investment that’ll be switched to a new Currency.

Then you watch and see how the Current administration are spending wildly. –just seems that way to me.

Terror: Iran has bought themselves a stay in execution for the time being, who knows maybe they have dodged the Bullet by opening up their sites for inspection. If War does happen, it’ll pull us into it. More money we don’t have, More debt. Anything that interferes with “business as usual’ is not good for Growth and creates more Negativity in the markets. Meaning no new jobs, more lay offs. Etc etc.

Then there’s the ever talk over the dirty Suit case Bombs-NYC would most likely be a target again. Still no need to bug out. But this will be very bad for the economy.

I would find out about a 401K Loan, see how much you can take out without too much of a penalty and would buy Gold . (Not gold shares) real gold , something of good quality. Not the Sh#ty coins they sell on tv.

If the markets go south, so is your 401k. Don’t make more debt and don’t pay off the debt you have. You might need the money. Remember if you ever declare bankruptcy or what ever they call it now days. …..you don’t have to pay the debt back. That’s if push comes to shove? Don’t do it on purpose, it’ll mess up your credit. You can always sell the Gold later and put it back into the 401k.

Keep your Job you need the money.

It doesn’t make much sense to me to borrow to buy a cabin. You won’t own it in time for it to be of any use to you. If worse comes to absolute worst, it will be survival and then sustainability knowledge and supplies that will help you, as mentioned before.