1940 Nazi Germany=2009 Israel(photos)

reply to post by stevegmu


Israel bombing schools and hospitals from the air is 'self-defense'.

But Palestinians blowing themselves up and firing rockets is 'terrorism'.

Is that right?

We are anti-Judaism for pointing out facts.

But you are a good American for pointing out your opinion.

Is that right?

What ever way you want to spin it to help you rest well at night, you go ahead. Sleep well in your ignorance, my friend.

Here are some replies to the report

Taken from - opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...

Dan Fleshler at Realistic Dove: “I am a self-hating Jew. Sometimes, that is.”

Sometimes I hate myself after losing my temper at my daughter or wife, or envying a friend’s success, or not comforting someone who needed comforting. Sometimes I hate myself for being too hard on myself.

Today, I am a self-hating Jew because I realize I’ve never taken the trouble to denounce those who call critics of Israel “self-hating Jews.”

If you Google “Richard Goldstone self-hating Jew Gaza,” you will find more than 5,000 entries. They include recent posts that invoke the new, controversial report from the UN Commission that Goldstone headed, which charges Israel and Hamas with war crimes and possibly even crimes against humanity. But his accusers are just getting started. By the time I finish writing this post, I bet a few hundred more will appear. A campaign of very personal character assassination is as predictable as a rain shower after the clouds have grown dark. . . .

I’ve just finished reading the Goldstone report. As the Forward notes, it “blisters with specificity.” It is upsetting. I don’t know exactly what happened in the Gaza Strip during “Operation Cast Lead” last winter. I do know that Israel will have a difficult time discrediting the report by citing the UN’s past transgressions, or insisting that Israel went out of its way to avoid civilian casualties, or explaining how the report neglected to include the “context” for Israel’s actions. White phosphorus provides its own context.

I also know that Richard Goldstone is my kind of Jew. And this time, I’m not going to hate myself for neglecting to lambaste those who reflexively call him “self-hating.”

----------------------------------------

Rabbi Brant Rosen at Shalom Rav: “The long awaited UN Human Rights Council Fact Finding Report on Israel’s war in Gaza has finally been released and its conclusions are breathtaking.”

The mission led by Justice Richard Goldstone . . . has concluded that serious violations of international human rights and humanitarian law were committed by Israel during the Gaza conflict, and that Israel committed actions amounting to war crimes, and possibly crimes against humanity. . . .

Based upon comments and e-mails I get on a daily basis, I know I will be considered by some to be a self-righteous simpleton at best and a traitor to my people at worst. But here goes: as a Jew, I am devastated by these findings. The moral implications of this report should challenge us to the core. And I am deeply, deeply troubled that the primary response of our Jewish communal leadership is to attack the source of the report while saying absolutely nothing about its actual content.

Yes, there are other human rights abusers in the world. And yes, some of them are even worse than Israel. Yes, the structure and governance policy of the UN is far from perfect. And yes, nations tend to use the UN for their own self-serving ends. But do these facts give us a pass on holding Israel up to the most basic standards of human rights and international law?

--------------------
Also found this

Amnesty International has endorsed and defended the conclusions of the report, and Human Rights Watch has also been a supporter of Justice Goldstone. Even the British House of Lords debate on this issue last May displayed a determination that there be no double standard and that Israel be held accountable for any crimes it committed– likewise Hamas.

reply to post by Sundancer


Christians weren't murdered during WWII because they were Christians. Jews were because they were Jewish. Not a tough concept to understand.

Of course Israel has charges against them. The UN is a very anti-Semitic organization. Syria, China and Iran have representatives on the Human Rights Commission. What does that tell you about the UN?
I guess you have some evidence concerning Israel's alleged nuclear weapons program. Care to break the story and post it?
Actually their leader is an insane fanatic who will use nuclear weapons if given the chance. If Israel has any, they are as a weapon of last resort.

I'm still not sure what denying the Holocaust has to do with allowing a state sponsor of terror who is actively contributing to the deaths of Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan to have nuclear weapons.

reply to post by stevegmu


I guess you are sort of implying ethnic cleansing means genocide, in which case you would be wrong. Again.

The United Nations defines ethnic cleansing as "the planned deliberate removal from a specific territory, persons of a particular ethnic group, by force or intimidation, in order to render that area ethnically homogenous."

Israel is guilty of this. I know deep in your slumber they aren't, but here in the real world, I'm sorry to inform you, they are.

Pay attention more often. Better yet, know the definition of words and terms before using them. It helps.

I looked, and looked, and looked, but I could find no third row of photgraphs that show all the dead Israelis killed since their founding.

No photographs of Syrian and Egyptian tanks, all lined up to vanquish Israel.

Nor any photographs of the 100,000 man strong Egyptian Army lined up to wipe Israel out.

Or of the results of the Syrian guns firing on the Israeli farmers below. Did anyone catch that one?

No photographs of kidnappings of Israeli citizens by their neighbors and then murdered.

I didn't even see any photgraphs of a coffee shop blown to hell, with the shattered glass and blood spatter from innocent Israeli citizens killed just going about their business.

In fact, I didn't see any photos of the blood in the streets from where buses were blown to bits as were the Israelis inside.

I did see a wall keeping people IN, and I assume some point was being made by showing a wall to keep terrorists, suicide bombers, kidnappers, and such OUT.

Was that suppose to be equated somehow?

It's probably my computer, but that third row just didn't show up.

Damned shame.

Could have been VERY enlightening.

Sanchez, I am upset that you would compare the bright hope of every Jew, Israel to the Nazi Regime.
However I do understand where you are coming from but I think it is an unfair compression. Israel has never treated the Palestinians the way the Nazi’s treated my people or Jehovah’s whiteness, gipsy’s, homosexuals or political dissents. And to say they do is an outright lie.

On a personal note you should have provided a warring to the graphic nature of the pictures, I was not fazed one bit thou and I will not shed one tear for these people. They are as much part of the problem as Israel. What we should do is stop the bickering and put aside the differences that we have and come to an agreement. And then if in a two state solution there is still fighting then so be it you can't say that Israel did not try.


[edit on 7-10-2009 by ashnomadonte]

[edit on 7-10-2009 by ashnomadonte]

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


You mean the Palestinians who blow up their schools and hospitals, then say Israel did it? Or, the Palestinians using human shields in schools and hospitals, and using those locations to launch rockets?

reply to post by dooper


Another example of Western ignorance. Congratulations.

When someone does something to you, it's terrorism. When you do something to someone else, it's self-defense - whether it was provoked or not.

See, only friends of the country you call home are allowed the right to self-defense. Don't you love how that works? I'm sure you do seeing as you assist in the propagation of this fanatical, hypocritical, and nonsensical philosophy.

Is the view nice from up there on your high horse?

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


It can also mean murder of a population within a region. Perhaps solely relying on UN definitions isn't the brightest course of action.
I should hope Israel is guilty of that. They are an ally- our only ally in the region. If the US were attacked on a daily basis from Canada, I would demand the US government take harsh measures to stop the attacks.

reply to post by stevegmu


Right. Because we all know pointing fingers makes a statement true. Forget documented facts, I'm going to believe someone who sits at their computer and waffles in their own ignorance, covering their eyes and ears and denying anything and everything that contradicts their delusional beliefs.

I won't bother debating you on this. Some people are just too far gone and hopeless. You're one of them.

Originally posted by stevegmu
It can also mean murder of a population within a region.

That is genocide. Again, learn your definitions first.

Originally posted by stevegmu
Perhaps solely relying on UN definitions isn't the brightest course of action.

Why, because they prove you wrong?

Originally posted by stevegmu
If the US were attacked on a daily basis from Canada, I would demand the US government take harsh measures to stop the attacks.

Sort of like the Palestinians being treated brutally on a daily basis by Israel and the Palestinians taking harsh measures to defend themselves?

If only you could see both sides... It's a shame you remain willfully ignorant.

OK.....

We are going to remain courteous and treat each other with respect.

That is the trademark of ATS

The snide comments and insults will stop now, or there will be warnings and possible suspension of posting privileges..

Semper

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


Novus, if I had your level of intuition, I'd have been dead many years ago, because intuition saved my bacon again, and again.

For your information, I don't know who my people are. I mean are you talking about my family?

OH!

I THINK you assume I'm either Jewish or Israeli?

Wait until I tell the folks back home!

I'm blonde-haired, blue-eyed, very Gentile-ishand I've only known two Jews my entire life, so I'm able to probably be just as independent on the topic as any.

Now aside from your assumptions you were talking to a Jew, and blathering on how my opinion must be tainted -

and NOW the embarrassment of finding out I'm NOT a Jew, was there anything you wanted to specifically address in my reply?

I simply pointed out that I couldn't get the third row of photographs.

Surely there was a missing third row of photographs.

And I mentioned a few that were glaringly missing.

reply to post by Ferris.Bueller.II


hey, if the thousand year rich lasted 40 years, you probably would have.
l 2

reply to post by stevegmu

"Christians weren't murdered during WWII because they were Christians. Jews were because they were Jewish. Not a tough concept to understand."

You have to be joking!!! Just because they weren't murdered for the sole reason of being Christian doesn't make their lives any less important than the Jews that were killed.

Of course Israel has charges against them. The UN is a very anti-Semitic organization. Syria, China and Iran have representatives on the Human Rights Commission.

Of course if they brought charges against Israel it's only because they're anti-Semitic even though the judge is Jewish?

All I'm saying is that Israel's enemy's should have a "right to exist also" especially since a good deal of those killed seem to be innocent woman and children.

If Israel wants to attack yet another country (Iran) they can do it without the blood of any US solders. If they want to start a war, they need to finish it themselves. Why does that make you so angry?

And here ya go from BBC news, Israel has 150 nukes.
news.bbc.co.uk...

reply to post by Sundancer


According to Jimmy Carter... the man who recently also said that criticism of Obama equates to racism. The guy is senile.

Your list of champions for the Palestinian cause really is impressive... Jimmy Carter... George Galloway... Ken Livingstone... Danny Glover...

Definitely a bunch I'd trust to look after international affairs and security.

You people are ridiculous. All of your arguments are based on propaganda and slogans. None of it has any grounding in history or fact. You're delusional.

If you spent half the time you spend posting this BS and frothing at the mouth about Israel and actually started thinking independently about how to actually help these people you might get somewhere.

But you don't. You just keep repeating the same falsehoods, the same rhetoric, and it gets you nowhere. You don't convince anyone apart from each-other. What does that achieve?

If you want Israel to change, it's Israelis you need to convince, and comparing people descended from Holocaust survivors to Nazis is not the way to do it. It just makes people think you're bigots.

reply to post by mattpryor

However, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert included Israel among a list of nuclear states in comments in December 2006, a week after US Defence Secretary Robert Gates used a similar form of words during a Senate hearing.

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Robert Gates were both full of it when they spoke about Israels nukes also?

I don't hate Israel but I do think if they pick a fight with Iran they need to finish it without American blood. Why does that make me a hater?

Edit to add... I never mentioned George Galloway... Ken Livingstone... Danny Glover... You either have the wrong poster or you're posting BS.

[edit on 8-10-2009 by Sundancer]

reply to post by ashnomadonte


Ash,

The purpose of this thread is to show the current line of reasoning for attacking Iran is yet again not just.

The Mainstream Media Rhetoric went from spouting conjecture of what the IAEA said, and now that the IAEA is speaking up, the conjectured reasoning for the necessity for an attack on Iran has spun into "evil Muslim's", again.

I've done nothing wrong. My gawd, the evidence provided in this thread came from JEWS, JEWS, and a few more of the same. Should We hunt them down, and "hang'em high"?

I actually was naive enough to think a thread which had evidence presented by Jews, and Jews speaking out would wake some.

The necessity for "popular majority", or might is right is apparent, and does make me sick.

Possibly, You are aware of where the information in the OP came, but I'm guessing Your not; yes Desertpeace, whatreallyhappened, Judge Goldstone, etc all Jewish.

Now, the list of articles at the bottom showing Israel demanding attacks on Iran, Syria, and Libya are amazing.

Many of the articles are from 7 years ago, and they read like it could be tomorrow's headline;"Iran will have the bomb, tomorrow, We must attack!!"

They all read like this.

So, tell me where I screwed up besides printing the truth? All Jewish evidence, and articles that show Iran has always been a target, I mean really it is quite scr&w&d up for this all to be happening.

What is my goal??? I don't want WAR. I'll guarantee that anyone with any since wouldn't want war; as there is always unseen issues that arise.

The Israeli Govt.? They are no different than the US Elitist Govt. They would, and will sacrifice the People of Israel for their gains.

B'TSELEM
Statistics, and fatalities from the Israeli Information Center for Human Rights In The Occupied Territories.
www.btselem.org...

Click on the numbers for a list of individual names and details about the circumstances of their death.
29.9.2000-26.12.2008
Occupied Territories
Israel
Gaza Strip West Bank Total
Palestinians killed by Israeli security forces
3000 1791 4791 69
Palestinians killed by Israeli civilians
4 41 45 2
Israeli civilians killed by Palestinians
39 198 237 490
Israeli security force personnel killed by Palestinians
97 148 245 90
Foreign citizens killed by Palestinians
10 7 17 37
Foreign citizens killed by Israeli security forces
4 6 10
Palestinians killed by Palestinians
458 135 593

Now, to all reading ****especially**** Those who are defending the State of Israel. I have nothing wrong with any single group of People in the World. If You cannot see that what is currently going on is NOT going to be anything, but major trouble for the common Jewish Person of Israel, then You need to start really doing some soul searching.

I absolutely believe the govts. of the US, and Israel are run by Elitist's who have absolutely no care, concern, or reserve about destroying their own respective Peoples.



The point in presentation is to STOP WAR!!! I would wager that 99.9% of all People just want to live in peace. The rogue govts. of the World are what create turmoil, and that much is provable.

The evidence presented in this thread should give the average Person of any race, or religion a degree of "resonable doubt".......... As in no matter what We are told everyone's sheeeeet stinks the same We all need to just take a chill pill, and think a little.



[edit on 8-10-2009 by sanchoearlyjones]