The Fall of the Maya -- "They Did it To Themselves" -- From NASA, no less!

These are two pretty good books on the subject:

Collapse covers several civilizations and explores the reasons for their demise and a couple that didn't, how they handled deforestation was one of the big differences determining survival.

Collapse by Jared Diamond

The second is a history of the Maya based on translations of stele by two of the top Mayan linguists.

A forest of kings: the untold story of the ancient Maya By Linda Schele, David A. Freidel

reply to post by DrumsRfun


Who says the Maya civilization dissapeared?... My uncle married a Maya woman, and i still remember her, and her children speaking sometimes to each other in a language i had never heard before. It is called Q'anjob'al or Kanjobal which is spoken in parts of Mexico, and in Guatemala.

There are at least 6 million Maya who still speak their ancient languages, appart from Spanish in some areas. There are only two Maya languages that have become extinct, but there are about 28-29 more, plus two proto-Maya languages, which split from the main Maya languages, but still exist and are spoken.

The Maya people did not dissapear, and btw although most of the women you see in documentaries are ugly, there are many Maya women who are beautiful.

Anybody who has studied Permaculture or survival skills knows that trees give off water during photosynthesis, making them organic solar-powered groundwater pumps. If you cut down trees you decrease rainfall and increase erosion, causing more damage - a slippery slope as it were. We seem to be on the same precipice...


[edit on 20-11-2009 by wanderingwaldo]

reply to post by wanderingwaldo


You do exist.

I kept thinking I would find you at the renaissance festival but I never did.

Originally posted by mmiichael

This is well know, how most of North Africa extending into Spain and the Middle East became desertified in relatively recent history largely through deforestation and disruption of the water table.
............

Sorry but that is not true... The Middle East did not become "desertified in relatively recent history"..... Fist of all, the lands that were bought by Israeli settlers from Palestinians WAS A DESERT, and only through modernization was the land of Israel and surrounded areas become more hospitable, which is why the Palestinian authorities in part want Israel back now, because the Israelis made it into an oasis.

Second of all, it was mostly parts of the Nile which was green, and fertile, it wans't the entire Middle East as most of the Middle East has been a desert for thousands of years, not to mention that this happened to the Nile at least 10,000 years ago....it didn't just happen now....

There are still some parts throughout the Nile that are fertile, and green.

BTW, in case some of you didn't know, there have been many cultures which have had to move, and adapt to Climate Change including large floods, and other Climate Changes.

BTW, here is what NASA research has to say.

Oglesby suspects that deforestation contributed to a drought. Lake sediment cores indicate that the Mayan deforestation appears to have coincided with natural climate variability that was already producing a drought. “Combined with the land-use changes, the drought was a double whammy,” he said. By 950 A.D., the Mayan lowland cities were largely deserted.

earthobservatory.nasa.gov...

[edit on 20-11-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by wanderingwaldo
...................
We seem to be on the same precipice...

We are not, that is unless some idiots start sequestering CO2 from the atmosphere, then yes, we would be in big trouble.

Since the increase in atmospheric CO2 the Earth has become GREENER, providing more food. This increase in green biomass has occurred mostly in the northern hemisphere, because yes in the southern hemispheres, and in South American countries, as well as in Asia, and China there is still a lot of illegal deforestation. If you want to blame somebody for illegal deforestation then blame South Americans, and Asians.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
The Middle East did not become "desertified in relatively recent history"..... Fist of all, the lands that were bought by Israeli settlers from Palestinians WAS A DESERT, and only through modernization was the land of Israel and surrounded areas become more hospitable, which is why the Palestinian authorities in part want Israel back now, because the Israelis made it into an oasis.

Second of all, it was mostly parts of the Nile which was green, and fertile, it wans't the entire Middle East as most of the Middle East has been a desert for thousands of years, not to mention that this happened to the Nile at least 10,000 years ago....it didn't just happen now....

There are still some parts throughout the Nile that are fertile, and green.

Hey, I'm not disagreeing with you. Just making broad general remarks. Sorry, it's been years since I discussed this or read about it. But as I recall much of the regions mentioned, Spain into North Africa and through the Middle East, were green within the last couple thousand years. Indiscriminate deforestation and badly planned agriculture were responsible for desertification.

What the Israelis did is remarkable and should become a model for the region. Irrigation, crop rotation, modern agriculture. But it worked because in a relatively tiny portion of the entire region there were educated knowledgeable people willing to dedicate time, resources and hard labour into making it happen.

Insightful when the Israeli settlements were abandoned in Gaza they left operating greenhouses. Instead of trying to keep them going, the Palestinians just destroyed them. Much could be said about Arabs and their approach to the environment and agriculture.

Mike

I like to think a bit more creatively....can we consider these theories...???

(1) They became aware of what was happening and what WILL happen on earth (destruction wise) and perhaps moved the entire civilization underground? maybe this is how the inner earth theory came about....

(2) They became so advanced and mastered the time of space that aliens acknowledged this and took them to another planet. afterall there are buildings in shapes of mayan symbols placed on mars, right? this makes perfect sense. They progressed and were promoted to a new world.

reply to post by Zeta Reticuli


That's an interesting theory, Zeta R. I try to put myself mentally into that place, and I'd be hard pressed to take myself and my loved ones underground, unless I though TEOTWAWKI was soon and imminent.

There could've been an earlier culture that did so. Interesting to think about.

Originally posted by Zeta Reticuli
I like to think a bit more creatively....can we consider these theories...???

(2) They became so advanced and mastered the time of space that aliens acknowledged this and took them to another planet. afterall there are buildings in shapes of mayan symbols placed on mars, right? this makes perfect sense. They progressed and were promoted to a new world.

I would think it more likely that the Mayans would have started on Mars, and brought the knowledge here rather than vice versa. Going with your theory -- not mine.

If they were promoted to Mars -- they seem to have gotten a bad deal since they are obviously not thriving there now.

reply to post by Zeta Reticuli


There are civilizations which have been known to have moved into caves, obviously because something really dramatic was happening.

We have found entire cities built within caves, and yes we are going to have to do it again soon if civilization is to survive.

Planets like Earth are very unstable environments, the only safe ways are either living underground or living in large spaceships capable of leaving the Solar System, and capable of substaining life, as well as protect it, more so against the high levels of radiation of deep space.

[edit on 20-11-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


As a seasonal cave-person, I'm enclined to agree with you; it's the only course that makes sense, if the subterranean structure has an air vent circulating good air. My Bride and I can carry enough goods in a 4-hour period to survive and deal with the aftermath of a serious hurricane for about a month, with tools and skills to extend that indefinately if need be.

I have a hard time figuring out how any group would survive away from the surface for any lengthy period of time. I'm fairly decent in the wild. Could I live on bats and seepwater? Perhaps hope for a pool with aquatic animals. How would we survive without vitamin [hormone] D?

_________________

I think you all are on an interesting tack -- crossing the wind and all that. Thanks for the ideas