"I know what I saw"---Full video Embed(REMOVED)

Originally posted by humilisunus
A bunch of lights in the sky doesn’t prove anything, there are millions of UFO's in the sky every year it proves nothing, the people on this site try to hold on so hard to the idea that we are being visited, for what?

The people on this site? That's a gross generalization. You clearly have no idea of the number of intelligent people who argue for and against the numerous aspects, theories and alleged evidence regarding the UFO phenomena in this forum.

And "a bunch of lights in the sky"? Another gross generalization. Well, it was already apparent to me that you hadn't looked at any of the credible and relevant evidence, but you apparently didn't even bothered to look at the evidence presented in this documentary, you know, the one being discussed in this thread you decided to post and not even address?

study, food, they want our planet, these are the only reasons aliens would come here

You criticize people for believing aliens are visiting the planet, but you claim to know the reasons and motivations alien beings would come here? Are you serious?

Either way this is an experiment by the gov for the gov nothing else

Pretty bold claim. You wouldn't happen to have proof that "this is an experiment by the gov and nothing else" now would you? Because unless you do what you are saying is merely your personal belief and has the same weight than people who believe aliens are visiting Earth.

Originally posted by kernalpanic
I still believe we'll eventually discover these to be huge surveillance 'balloons', cheaper then launching satellites and stealthy with the angular shape to spy on us. And let us not forget that the History Channel is sponsored by the Hearst corporation, the very definition of yellow journalism. Good stuff to see, but instead of REAL aliens (assuming they exist) you might also take into account this is fodder for the 'FAKE' invasion supposedly revealed by Werner von Braun. This smells like such a 'trap', I advise all to pop in your skeptical spectacles

I have long wondered about that. And I harbor a similar suspicion: That *some* UFO's could be spy UAV's based on Lighter than Air technology (helium filled envelopes of transparent plastic with a small camera and solar power would make great spy balloons for example, as long as they are never allowed to be captured by people in the event of a crash.) One has to think, if I can come up with this idea, then somebody at the CIA also came up with this idea and at least gave it a try.

But there are other UFO's that are hard to explain with this hypothesis such as the RAF Bentwaters case, where the UFO was TOUCHED by one of the witnesses and the vehicle appeared to have etchings which would appear like written language of some kind.

Not saying that such a vehicle could not be a secret craft made by some world government, but at some point the secret spy craft hypothesis begins to stretch, well, every hypothesis is a stretch

-rrr
-rrr

reply to post by Pathos


First, I think your post is very thorough and well thought out.

But I don't think you can make a definitive assertion that you "already know" what other people saw, because even if the majority of UFO's witnessed by public are man made, you cannot prove an universal negative, even those that every person agrees are "true" such as "there is no Santa" because to prove an unrestricted negative you have to search everywhere. It is also a bit "out there" of you to claim you know better than the witness who was actually there taking notes.

Now if you narrow it down to some specific report and you can provide links or evidence that backs up your claim, then that would be great, and I would love to look into it.

But, for example, you show a patent on a triangular craft possibly made by the US, with the implication that if the public saw something triangular in the sky it must be this. But for that to be true, the performance characteristics and size would have to match as well. And I think you owe an answer to the question of why would the US government test a secret craft over publicly populated areas, when there are perfectly private areas reserved for that purpose. And where on that patent does it say that this craft can accelerate as reported by the public of other triangular craft sightings.

At any rate, I've always been of the opinion that there must be exotic vehicles out there made by the US or Russia, and always had a hunch that the triangle seen in Belgium was US made, and that the boomerang seen over Phoenix was too. Almost as if the aesthetics of some UFO's perfectly seem to match the aesthetics of the era when they were seen around. Triangles are so 80's . Sheet metal saucers are so 50's like a shiny motor home or toaster.

Those UFO's give me that hunch. However, other UFO's don't fit that pattern quite so well, such as reports of glowing orbs or spheres with lights all around. Anyway, impressions and hunches are just that.

-rrr

[edit on 6-10-2009 by rickyrrr]

reply to post by rickyrrr

Hahaha... After I read your original message, I knew you didn't read my whole post.

If you listen to the UFO clips, the witnesses describe (and to one extend make a model) of what they saw. Both of the links I provided show that an American made aircraft of those characteristics does exist.

"Why would the US government test a secret craft over publicly populated areas?"
Before I posted my answer to the video, I asked myself that exact same question. I needed to make sure that my answer was rational. I did find two logical answers. My questions were more like these:

Why would the US government test a secret aircraft over a populated "US" city?
My answer: Less chances of being shot down. If the craft was being tested for surveillance and stealth, the vessel would not have heavy defenses. Look at the P3. Why test a million dollar craft by hovering it over Iran? It would be shot down.

Why would the US government test a secret aircraft over any populated city?
My answer: Psychological experiment. If they were testing to see how a population would react, (or if it would go unnoticed), hovering the craft over any city would give them an answer.

Why would the US government test a secret aircraft near a military base?
My answer: Maybe it was a mistake. If something went wrong during a test flight, the safest place to land a military craft would be near a military base. Help would only be steps away. You can control the magnitude of exposure.

If you listen to everyone's descriptions, the US military created built the perfect weapon. Key descriptive phrases: *Its doesn't make sound *It looks like a surveillance platform *Its is as dark as nights. Its the perfect military weapon.

Why would foreign governments push the US government into discussing UFOs?
Why not. Anything of this nature would be a military advantage.

[edit on 6-10-2009 by Pathos]

reply to post by Pathos


In other words you don't have proof of anything, just theories and beliefs like the true believers.

Great Documentary but most of it I had already seen (Bits and pieces of the files dicussed isnt anything new)

But as a whole the documentary is good.

Now as a believer (Here comes the attacks lol)
I think something is going on. Yes some of it is military black project but all the sightings cant be associated with black projects. Only a very few can be associated to natural phenomena but what about the rest. The disk shapes in the sky, the bright lights at night with irratic behaviors.

I think the most intresting are day light sightings for many reasons but the best one is the day we will have a mssive sighting in the middle of the day with tons of photos. The Gov and all the non believers cant just say it was massive hallucination.

Im telling you brothers, They are there, what we are seeing isnt just swamp gaz or weather ballons. There is something else out there.

Just hope im still around when the discloser happens. But I doubt it will come from our Goverments but rather they will actually show themselves one day to the world.

The Gov wont to happy for sure ... And stop that non sense there will be panic and people will run around like headless chikens. We arent chikens and we arent sheep.

Fear No One, Trust no One ...

Originally posted by converge
reply to post by Pathos

 

In other words you don't have proof of anything, just theories and beliefs like the true believers.

Untrue. Look at all of my posts. Also look at my profile. I have provided rational collations between witness testimonials and military aircraft designs. What many believers are lacking (not all) is logical reasoning. Even though many people have shown examples of military aircraft (both in design and capability) that match what observers see, many (not all) UFO believers dismiss tangible proof. What they are saying is that "red is not red".

Within the post you were replying to, I was giving the original poster my opinion. He didn't think I was looking at this rationally. I was.

Before anyone can say alien made UFOs have been visiting us, we have to dismiss the more down to Earth explanations. If anyone thinks that the United States is the only government experimenting with aircraft, that would be very-very short-sighted. How many of those foreign countries are testing aircraft now?



[edit on 6-10-2009 by Pathos]

Originally posted by Pathos
If you listen to everyone's descriptions, the US military created built the perfect weapon. Key descriptive phrases: *Its doesn't make sound *It looks like a surveillance platform *Its is as dark as nights. Its the perfect military weapon.

You apparently forgot, willingly or not, to mention that all of the objects mentioned in the documentary had incredibly bright light sources.

Regarding the Phoenix Lights, yes people said the body of the craft was dark, but they also mention the 5 or 6 bright white lights it had. Did you forget that?

Regarding the Rendlesham-Bentwaters incident, did you forget the part where the security guards were alerted to the situation because of the bright lights seen going into the forest? You've perhaps also missed the description of bright lights by Sgt. Penniston and Burroughs who allegedly looked, and even touched, the landed craft in the forest?

Again, as I've mentioned several times, we cannot dismiss the possibility that some UFOs are indeed secret military projects. But if one honestly looks at all the available evidence he is quickly confronted with the fact that misidentifications, natural phenomena and secret projects can't explain everything away.

Originally posted by converge

You apparently forgot, willingly or not, to mention that all of the objects mentioned in the documentary had incredibly bright light sources.

Regarding the Phoenix Lights, yes people said the body of the craft was dark, but they also mention the 5 or 6 bright white lights it had. Did you forget that?

So, what you are saying is that the United States military doesn't have various light configurations? I find that hard to believe.

Originally posted by Pathos
Before anyone can say alien made UFOs have been visiting us, we have to dismiss the more down to Earth explanations.

Anyone can say there is extra-terrestrial visitation going on, proving it is a different matter altogether. Just as you can, and have, say that UFOs are nothing more than secret projects, proving those claims however, is a different matter and you haven't.

I agree with you though, that we should first look at conventional explanations before we jump to other theories, however, it is a documented fact that a small, but significant and crucial, percentage of cases remain unexplained.

And this is documented in, for instance, the Air Force's own Project Blue Book that although it was basically a debunking attempt at the whole phenomena still had to admit there was a percentage of cases it couldn't explain.

If anyone thinks that the United States is the only government experimenting with aircraft, that would be very-very short-sighted. How many of those foreign countries are testing aircraft now?

I agree that it would very short-sighted. But how realistic is it to think that the United States had this sort of technology hidden for over 50 years? Unlikely. And how realistic is it that other countries had this sort of technology as well hidden for the same amount of time? Much more unlikely.

Unless of course we fall into that same speculation on why would a hand-full of countries have tested incredibly earth-shattering top secret weapons over populated areas and foreign countries.


[edit on 6-10-2009 by converge]

Originally posted by Pathos
So, what you are saying is that the United States military doesn't have various light configurations? I find that hard to believe.

No... My point is that it doesn't fit your theory of the perfect stealth surveillance platform.

But again, I repeat, I'm not saying some of these UFOs people are witnessing aren't actually secret projects, but that doesn't explain, or even cover, everything related to the UFO phenomena.


[edit on 6-10-2009 by converge]

They had the stealth bomber hidden for 55ish years. Our Airforce has kept bigger secrets for even longer periods.

Originally posted by Pathos
They had the stealth bomber hidden for 55ish years. Our Airforce has kept bigger secrets for even longer periods.

What Stealth Bomber are you talking about? The B-2?

The B-2 Spirit originated from the Advanced Technology Bomber (ATB) black project that began in 1979. (...)

The B-2 was first publicly displayed on 22 November 1988, at Air Force Plant 42, Palmdale, California, where it was assembled. (source)

I really enjoyed that documentary, some very good reliable people in it. Who know what they saw. And I know what I saw, too.

Originally posted by Pathos
They had the stealth bomber hidden for 55ish years. Our Airforce has kept bigger secrets for even longer periods.

You see this is the real reason this whole thing gets covered up. Because of people like you. Your Air Force or any other military establishment in the world for that matter have absolutely no control over the situation, and they know that if the public knew about this then there will be probably be some distraught individuals thinking aliens are coming down to eat them.

Thanks OP for posting this.

Star and flag for you.

Anyway, in the 3rd clip, not sure if this have been said yet but, isn't the drawing that the police man did of the UFO look a lot like the not to old video clip from turkey where they have film a UFO bein stationary for quite a while?

Do anyone know which one I refer to?

reply to post by Majorion
Actually, I am a firm supporter in keeping military information from the public. If a piece of information reveals a military weakness or strength, I would hide those details deep within the beast's belly. If I were running a top secret military program, I would take full advantage of a naive UFO movement. I would let the ufologist create my cover story, so that I can hide programs from foreign and domestic knowledge.

Hmmm... If you really think about how effective UFO stories are, I would hire a ufologist to create a fake story for show and tell. While people are too busy focusing on little green/gray men, I could virtually get away with almost anything. I could have someone on the inside (MUFON) selling the UFO story, and be building the most advanced piece of military technology that ever existed.

Paid for by the taxpayer - for the safety of the taxpayer.

Some of you are so gullible. Keep searching for those bright lights!

[edit on 6-10-2009 by Pathos]

This 2hr documentary was such a disappointment to me. I was expecting this documentary to present things that I haven't heard of, instead, it presented stories that I had already seen on TV or read about on the internet. Didn't learn a single thing. Again, what a dissapointment, don't bother watching those clips, you may fall asleep.

BOC

I just have hope for people who cant imagine the fact that there is something from another galaxy visiting us. i hope one day things change

Excellent post. I saw on the forums this probram was to be on last Sunday on the History. Being in the UK, I looked through SKY to record it, but it wasnt their.

Again, great post and I totally enjoyed the program.

If any of the ojects are man made, its like the guy in the last clip said, they have revolutonary technology, "its the law" to share.

I think the US military research have broken off from the branch to serving the US. I think its sad that no one could monitor a unanswerable department that could basically do anything they wish, from global domination through technology through to deep space travel.

Also, Pathos, I dont get the ignorance of the US millitary being macho of not admitting posession or acknoledgement of UFOs. Sure, its all about security, but it not big at all to hide away facts from the taxpayers that pay their wages.

I mean no offence to you, just my humble opinion.

[edit on 6-10-2009 by heavenandearth01]