Does The U.S. Even Care About Its Soldiers?

Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
There are no heros in a war. Anyone who thinks such a thing is a moron who understands nothing of war and has never been in combat. There is no glory in war, there is no honor in war. One day if humanity manages to keep itself alive will look back on its existence and shake their head for the way they've lived on planet Earth. Words can't even describe how evil humanity is. But people always love to point out how great humanity is. Well so what are we left with? A species that simply exists, where good cancels out the bad? Haha what a joke! Just like war.

And you're basing this on what? Your extensive combat experience?

Spoken (or written) like someone that's never been in the military or in battle. You fail.

Originally posted by Zosynspiracy

Blah blah blah!

Great opening. You come up with that all by yourself?

You and dooper are ex military so of course you're going to hold the opinions you hold of war.

Did it ever occur to you that those who take the chance of dying might not be as gung ho to go off to die as you think? The difference is, we understand the NECESSITY of it, and are willing to hold the line, so that you pampered folk can sit back at home, and talk all manner of trash about us and our dead buddies.

No sir, a soldier is the LAST to hope for war. He's also the first to heed the call of the drums when it's necessary, and will march straight at the sound of thunder so you can talk of grand, universal thingies without fear of molestation.

How foolish of us.

Doesn't change the fact that in the GRAND SCHEME of life and the universe there are no heros in war. You can rationalize and justify it all you want. If there is a god up there watching over human beings on planet Earth he's listening to guys like you shaking his head and thinking to himself...................they just don't get "IT"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Humanity is one big karmic experience that's all.

How nice that you get to write policy for God. Where do I apply for that gig? You can rationalize and justify YOUR opinions all you want, too.

Thank a soldier for that ability. Put a flower on a dead hero's grave. When I get to write policy for God, I'll make sure he smiles at you for it.

Does "karma" go good on whole wheat? If not, what good is it? Tell ya what, you can have my share of it. I'd rather have the ham and lima beans.



[edit on 2009/10/7 by nenothtu]

Anyone who thinks there's heroes in war have been drinking too much.

There are NO heroes in war.

It's all a game.

Killing is a business, and it makes tons of money.

That's the truth.

"All soldiers are dumb animals used as pawns in foreign policy."
~Henry Kissinger

I couldn't agree any more with Henry Kissinger. He is right on the money.

Soldiers aren't fighting for freedom, they are dying so that McDonalds can put up another one of its dumb establishments in another part of the world.

This is all "democracy" is: CORPORATIONS RUNNING THE SHOW.

The soldiers who have fought and died, pretty much did it for no reason, so their death was just another part of the game.

If you REALLY support the troops, then bring them home already. Stop wasting time.

You are feeding The Ego.

Originally posted by Emerald The Paradigm
If you REALLY support the troops, then bring them home already. Stop wasting time.

I think I'm having deja vu...

Just out of curiosity, do you honestly think that demeaning the lives of those who have died and demeaning the ones who are either still fighting or who've made it home is supporting them?

Originally posted by stevegmu
reply to post by projectvxn

 

Congress overwhelmingly authorized President Bush to use force to remove S. Hussein. The Constitution doesn't specify what a formal declaration of war is. The President alone can not declare war, so Congress passed HJ Res 114.

link

I don't care what K. Anan said- has he been indicted yet? Which UN resolution was it that declared the removal of S. Hussein illegal?

This is inaccurate and here's why:

ALBERTO GONZALES: "There was not a war declaration, either in connection with Al Qaida or in Iraq. It was an authorization to use military force. I only want to clarify that, because there are implications. Obviously, when you talk about a war declaration, you're possibly talking about affecting treaties, diplomatic relations. And so there is a distinction in law and in practice. And we're not talking about a war declaration. This is an authorization only to use military force."

Formal declarations carry alot of weight, what we have here is a difference in legalese in order to satisfy the War Powers Act. The fact that all the reasoning for the Iraq war turned out to be a lie detracts it's legitimacy as a legal war.

[edit on 8-10-2009 by projectvxn]

reply to post by Emerald The Paradigm


Who, exactly, is the target of this post? The government? The people of the U.S.? Seems like a pretty broad brush being used here. Do people care? You bet they do. We can't go out, with my husband in uniform, and not have people come up and thank him. Businesses offer discounts unasked many times as well. So, yes, the people of this country, for the most part, do care about the military. It's appreciated, too. Does the government care? Depends on who's in charge. Currently? I doubt it. I know the military doesn't respect the current administration. Great video on YouTube on that point:

reply to post by Emerald The Paradigm


Ok I can sort of get behind you when you say soldiers don't fight for freedom. At least in my case you are right. I made some bad choices in my life and had a few kids so I have to pay child support and I only net 436$ a check. This is not enough to live on for me so I would go to Iraq for one reason Money, sep pay imminent danger pay, sepa rats, and a few others Oh combat pay I could clear 1,200$ a pay check that is what drives me to volunteer to deploy.

Sadly I have only ever been to Gitmo and sure the pay is good and the work is not so bad Iraq does not Gitmo make in the way of pay. So you are right not every soldier fights for freedom or even America I for one fight for money, money and hostess fruit pies! God I love those things.

My humble opinion is that there is a confluence of factors that work to produce a large homeless veteran population.

Number one, I don't think that Americans really do care about our veterans. Sure, I get thank you's every once in a while, maybe someone will buy me a beer. So what? What percentage of the population actually does this? More importantly, what percentage of the population does something to actually help veterans? How many donate to charities, provide opportunities where they can? My guess would be that there are more homeless veterans than there are Americans willing to actually do something to help them.

Number two, having been exposed to the brilliance that is government run anything for the past 7 years, I think that any government run veteran's aid program is probably a disaster and exceedingly difficult to participate in. I have no evidence of this other than anecdotal but as I said this is my humble opinion, so skip it if you don't agree. If getting in to see a doctor or mental health professional or anything like that is as hard for veterans as it is for me (being on active duty), then I can see why they would just give up. This is the primary reason I'm so scared of the whole universal health care thing. I've seen how the govt runs things.

And last but not least, this one is a little out there, but maybe they are more inclined to accept homelessness because of military experience. I'd be lying if I hadn't thought about just walking away from it all on occaision. The fact that I have the training and experience to survive would only make it easier.

Originally posted by midnightbrigade
Absolutely the government cares about them. So much so that if a soldier is on leave and breaks a leg riding an ATV, they can be court martialed for destroying government property.

Contrary to popular belief a soldier cannot be punished for harming himself based on the charge of "destroying government property."

He can be punished for riding an ATV without proper protective gear, without taking the prescribed classes, or after a direct order not to ride an ATV. These are probably offences that would be punished through non-judicial punishment (Article 15) rather than a Courts Martial. Notice all charges are based on disobeying orders (most if not all posts have protective gear and education requirements) rather than injuring onesself. The military can request repayment of medical costs in relation to any incident deemed not in accordance with policy and can deny life insurance payment if you are killed, but there is nothing I know of that you can be charged with for injuring yourself.

As someone stated earlier, as long as you're in compliance with regulation, the worst punishment you're likely to suffer is getting laughed at.

I thought it was funny that you mentioned how the east was about the religious doctrines.

The reason that is funny is because that religious doctrine states that you must cloth the naked, feed the hungry, and house the homeless.

In reality by not doing these things they are going against the very beliefs they hold dear.

"Iseah 58:7, 10 Feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the naked."

if you want the actual quote here it is.

"Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?"

"Jeremiah 22:3 Defend the helpless and oppressed; don't harm strangers, widows, orphans, or other innocent people."

"Zechariah 7:9-10 Execute true judgment, and shew mercy and compassions every man to his brother: And oppress not the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the poor; and let none of you imagine evil against his brother in your heart."

"James 2:15-16 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that?"

[edit on 13-10-2009 by DaMod]

reply to post by midnightbrigade
because i believe all wars are a product of the elite in world domination, i feel so badly for our boys who patriotically fight for our freedom; and, in the end will wind up as slaves or worse die fighting for the rich.

i love our boys and men for their courage but our government does not give a crap about the soldiers.

reply to post by Zosynspiracy

I can't believe you were dumb enough to bring God into it.

If there's a God in heaven, according to what he's already said, he much prefers warriors than lukewarm pukes who just sit around and bellyache.

"Because you are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, I will spew thee out of my mouth."

He seems to like do'ers a whole hell of a lot better than whiners.

Originally posted by Emerald The Paradigm
Anyone who thinks there's heroes in war have been drinking too much.

There are NO heroes in war.

It's all a game.

Killing is a business, and it makes tons of money.

That's the truth.

"All soldiers are dumb animals used as pawns in foreign policy."
~Henry Kissinger

I couldn't agree any more with Henry Kissinger. He is right on the money.

Soldiers aren't fighting for freedom, they are dying so that McDonalds can put up another one of its dumb establishments in another part of the world.

This is all "democracy" is: CORPORATIONS RUNNING THE SHOW.

The soldiers who have fought and died, pretty much did it for no reason, so their death was just another part of the game.

If you REALLY support the troops, then bring them home already. Stop wasting time.

You are feeding The Ego.

You do understand the quote from Kissinger is unsubstantiated, as in probably made up.

You agree with a war criminal and an idiot himself? You must not be to bright.

I don't believe that the government cares about the soldiers any more than they care about property...after all, that is what soldiers are...property of the U.S. government.

Hero's are not born in war, they are bought to one. Yes, our soldiers do fight for agenda's, but they also fight to keep us safe. If you support the soldiers, support them. All I'm hearing is that our soldiers are uninformed and meaningless. Our soldiers fight for the big picture not just the one you see with your small minds. To the one agreeing about soldiers being dumb animal pawns, how can you believe that and support them? How can you say they are fighting for corporations and not freedom? Our soldiers are every piece but the king-which is our country. They fight so that the king doesn't have to. Sure they are Sacrificial pieces, but someone has to play them. Our soldiers play them so that we don't have to. So that we can go on about our lives without any knowing of the things in the dark. They carry burdens so that we don't have to. Burdens that someone must bear. So before you even think about making a post degrading our soldiers and then saying you support them, re-evaluate what you think our soldiers stand for because there is no fence sitting when it comes to our soldiers, either you support them or not.

[edit on 13-12-2009 by Pains Wisdom]

reply to post by Truth_Seeker_82


Wow what an excellent idea...throw eggs at buildings. *starts thinking*

[edit on 13-12-2009 by rizla]

Originally posted by rizla
There is too much idolizing of soldiers. Most of them are poor kids with no other opportunities and / or dumb kids who should not qualify to own a gun. They're not heros, they join for their own self-serving reasons. If they think they are being patriotic, they are mistaken, or lying. There's nothing patriotic about signing up to go to Iraq or Afghanistan, It is more patriotic to say NO. Look at Viet Nam, for example.

I don't mean to attack soldiers in general. But I retain the right to do so, if I so choose.

Seriously, that's what you think of teens who join the military. I believe a good percentage of them are/were misguided. You haven't/can't walk in the next man's shoes. I think your feelings are directed toward reservist rather then active duty, because you can't be on active duty and remain that same misguided kid.

I think the U.S. cares, but there are certain people who think the soldiers are these little expendalbe play things.

Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by midnightbrigade

 

I have never heard of this, do you have a link?

I have heard of soldiers getting an article 15 because they had gotten a sunburn so bad that they couldn't perform their duties. But never because they broke a leg riding an ATV.

This is true in one aspect and false in another. Soldiers can acquire documentation in the negative arena if they are not doing the rules laid down for high risk activities. If this soldier did not inform his chain of command he would be at a dirt race track riding 100 mph on a banshee and jumping 15 feet in the air, all while wearing the proper protective equipment then they go down a road. That road is called "Line of duty Determination" to determine if what you did was safe, within a reasonable realm, and not only was it unsafe for that person but for others around. This covers many other topics such as medical responsibilities of the US government, punishment in the form of whatever your commanding officer can reasonably push on you based on his "vibe" of your actions and responsibilities to the "mission".

When you sign up for the voluntary military of the United States of America, you have to be responsible not only for your Country, your Branch, your Base, your group, your Squadron, your Flight and then to yourself. The problem with this mentality is the government is a vulture for young and ignorant over old and educated. Hense the reason a military member is not to blame for our public voting ignoramous leaders, it is the publics fault for ignorant/stupid voting practise. Sorry had to toss that little part in, tired of people bashing military members when they vote for war mongers and greedy corporate puppets.