Right vs. Left -- Which Side Are You On?

The true Right and Left it seems to me makes up a tiny minority of the population. Very few, those we usually refer to as radicals, make up what we call the Far Right or the Far Left that embrace the idea's fully.

If pressed to define myself I call myself a Moderate Independent. I have no Party ties. I admit to leaning to the right on financial and governmental issues as well as having a strong defense.

On social issues I tend to lean to the Left and believe the government should act as a safety net. There is a limit though in that I do not think the government should create a Nanny State; mainly due to their inefficiency at managing anything.

On some issues I lean towards the Libertarians in that I think the government should be far less intrusive in our lives. I also think that issues like drugs and moral issues are best handled in the private sector and should not be a concern of the government.

On tax issues I lean towards the old Reagan model. Less taxes means a more productive economy and a better standard of living. High taxes are destructive and always lead to the dreaded Nanny State we have seen fail over and over again in country after country.

The fact you posted this illustrates what I see as the real problem. People have let themselves be placed into very narrow categories when in fact if we are honest about our beliefs the idea that we can be categorized into three general mindsets is intellectually dishonest.

When I see the term sheep, in my mind it describes those who align with a Party and let the Party tell them what to think and determine their values for them. Its apathetic how many have taken the easy way out of their responsibility to themselves by letting a Party lead them by the nose.

The Far (Radical) Right I admit does not bother me as much as the Far (Radical) Left does. The Far Right people never seem to have any negative impact on my day to day life where the Far Left inject themselves into everyone's life. They try to tell us what to eat, what to put in our bodies, what to teach our children and in general insist on shoving their views down our throats. Often on these issues is where I lean toward the Libertarian mindset.

I would hope what you find from this thread is that none of us can be easily pigeonholed if we are honest and that to often the hard core Partisans are people who have allowed themselves to be controled by taking the easy way out and letting others make their decisions for them. Partisans seem to be saying it is easier for me just to not pay attention and let the Party leaders tell me what to say or think.

Originally posted by grover
this is the type of dialog I am talking about.

And it only took 4 pages! Sorry I didn't read it all. I saw the claws come out and I'm just not interested.

A thought that came to me... Left and right are VERY real and they do exist, but only as ideologies. For the most part, real people don't fit into ideologies.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Amen.

I had to put ninecrimes into ignore...I will take him out in a few days but if I kept bickering with him it would have killed the thread which I think was what he was trying to do.

Sadly I doubt that most of the people responding to this thread are not interested in rising to the challenge. It would mean examining their political beliefs in detail.

Some Like blaine has done an excellent job but I wish he would have gone into specifics.

the middle, where it is sane

Originally posted by grover
I cannot abide what I consider the extremists that seem to have taken over both the Republican party and the conservative movement...as I have said before even Nixon would be too liberal for that crowd.

[edit on 30-9-2009 by grover]

I'm genuinely curious Grover. That is the antithesis of what you say you wanted to happen in this thread. You attack one set of extremists while giving the extremists on the other side a pass?

I wonder, are there any mindsets on the Left that you find extremist and over the line? Be honest with yourself now? What about the Far Left bothers you?

reply to post by Blaine91555

To be perfectly honest the Democratic party is not as a general rule very far left. Paul Wellstone was the last real hardcore leftist. Even Bernie Saunders...the self avowed socialist is pretty moderate and Obama always was middle of the road.

At least that is how I see it.

The hard right...not conservative...has only been the really radical force in American politics for some time...

...that is not to say that there is not common ground.


[edit on 30-9-2009 by grover]

reply to post by grover
Good thread,OP S&F! as for the entire right/left game I refuse to play along because once you realize that corporations,lobbyists and other special interests give money to both sides you begin to see how much of a con job our system of government truly is.

reply to post by bigvig316

Quiet frankly I wish that the government worked more for the people than one political ideology or the other.

Can you imagine what causes could be advanced, if we used our money for constructive causes instead of giving it to politicians so they can fund their next run for election/political offensive etc?

Originally posted by grover
reply to post by Blaine91555

 

To be perfectly honest the Democratic party is not as a general rule very far left. Paul Wellstone was the last real hardcore leftist. Even Bernie Saunders...the self avowed socialist is pretty moderate and Obama always was middle of the road.

At least that is how I see it.

The hard right...not conservative...has only been the really radical force in American politics for some time...

...that is not to say that there is not common ground.


[edit on 30-9-2009 by grover]

Personally I would not agree with this. Obama is far from moderate, with the exception of how he speaks. He speaks like a moderate but his policies are pretty far left. And to clarify, I am saying very left for American politics, not very left in general.

Self avowed Socialists are not moderate by definition. The platform of what he believes and wants to accomplish is about as far from moderate as it gets in America. But again, at times he speaks like a moderate. You need to look into the legislation they sponsor, vote for, and vote against, not just what they say. Politicians in America know that the playbook for getting elected President is to talk like a moderate, and then do whatever you want besides that. Bush talked like a moderate, and wasn't. Same for Obama.

Republicans have their far right people also. But I would argue it wasn't them that were in control of the party. The size of govt grew to such a degree under Bush, and there were so many new social programs, that in no was that a far right policy. This is why so many people, like me are disenfranchised Republicans that no longer identify with the party.

Pelosi is pretty far left with not only her rhetoric but her policies. Boxer is far left. Obama was rated as the most liberal Senator in 2007 and was in the top 3 all of his few years in office.

Here is a useful tool in this forum. It is a test that goes through a services of questions and then identifies where you fall according to was you believe. Many times the results can be surprising.

Take the test:

Political Compass Test

What were your results Grover?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Right vs. Left -- Which Side Are You On?

BOTH.

Nice thread grover.

If we look at our actual beliefs, the right and left kind of fade we are all just people.

This is what I can come up with right now. What am I?

I am pro-choice, but wouldn't choose to have an abortion myself.
I support the second amendment (all of them, actually)
I support civil rights, including gay rights
I am against illegal immigration and think they should be legally punished
I think all drugs should be legalized
I support health care for everyone
I believe in a strong military, but protect our borders and us FIRST
I believe in personal responsibility
I support social programs for those who need it
I am "green" and energy conscious
I believe in enforcement of current laws instead of adding new ones
I don't support hate crime legislation
I believe in complete separation of church and state
Foreign Policy - We all live here together and need to work together for the benefit of the planet
We should help other countries, but take care of ourselves FIRST
Abolish the FED
"Values" are the business of families, not governments
Corporations are out of hand - No bailouts or tax cuts
Get out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Now.
I have never been a member of a political party and have voted for several different parties

What am I?

[edit on 30-9-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

Great answer, I couldn't have said it better myself.

If you don't seek "balance" between right and left you are in danger of becoming "unbalanced". And anyway, in the end, TPTB run the show.

This is what I came across as according to this test. Good test to take!!

Political Compass Test

My results:

Economic Left/Right: 3.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.41

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/58a481bc1375.png[/atsimg]

What did everyone else's results come out as?

Originally posted by tripletau
reply to post by bigvig316

 

Quiet frankly I wish that the government worked more for the people than one political ideology or the other.

Can you imagine what causes could be advanced, if we used our money for constructive causes instead of giving it to politicians so they can fund their next run for election/political offensive etc?

I agree, and Bill Hicks said it so eloquently:

"The world is like a ride in an amusement park. And when you choose to go on it you think it's real because that's how powerful our minds are. And the ride goes up and down and round and round. It has thrills and chills and it's very brightly colored and it's very loud and it's fun, for a while. Some people have been on the ride for a long time and they begin to question: "Is this real, or is this just a ride?" And other people have remembered, and they come back to us, they say: "Hey, don't worry, don't be afraid, ever, because this is just a ride." ... and we kill those people.

Ha ha, "Shut him up. We have a lot invested in this ride. Shut him up. Look at my furrows of worry. Look at my big bank account and my family. This just has to be real." It's just a ride. But we always kill those good guys who try and tell us that, you ever notice that? And let the demons run amok. But it doesn't matter, because it's just a ride. And we can change it anytime we want. It's only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings and money. A choice, right now, between fear and love. The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your doors, buy guns, close yourself off. The eyes of love instead see all of us as ONE.

Here's what we can do to change the world, right now, to a better ride. Take all that money we spend on weapons and defense each year, and instead spend it feeding, clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would many times over, not one human being excluded, and we can explore space together, both inner and outer, forever, in peace."

My answer is complicated and split right smack down the middle.

Social issues? Total conservative I'm not crazy about it though. I live and let live on most issues. Why should I try and hold someone else to my standards. It's not right.

Financial issues? Left wing. That said... I hate the bail-outs and I don't think this is the right time for an overhaul of health-care... though we do need one badly.

Makes voting kinda fun sometimes ya know?

I'm surprised at my political profile! ...Very interesting!

here it is

[edit on 30-9-2009 by sisgood]

Sorry for the late reply, but...

"Right vs. Left -- Which Side Are You On?"

I'm on neither side. My political beliefs are outlined in the Constitution almost to the letter. As far as my views on "the issues" go, I think this country's government is so corrupt, defective, and out of touch with what our founding fathers had in mind that we aren't even looking at the right issues.

More than anything, I think political parties need to be abolished. All of them. They're a bane against the existence of independence and free thought.

I'm on the Left. Liberal feminist Democrat.

I have a world view that I care for everyone. It gets weird when you can defend anyone for anything. I believe there is good in everyone and it helps me get by in the world. I take the same position as Warren Buffett, Fiscally conservative/ socially liberal.

When I was younger I had been described as "somewhere to the right of Ghengis Khan". When you grow older and wiser I begin to realise the errors of my ways. Extreme left and right wing views are driven by emotion rather than reason.

Most advanced societies tend towards the left as they advance and it is better for all. There is a point it has to stop however! Communism is a nice fluffy idea that doesn't work. That said, capitalism is the worst sort of society apart from all the others that have been tried.

Our politcal choices are closely tied to the economic framework. When we find a better system than capitalism we should have better political choices. Maybe that is what the US/EU are up to at the moment. They are certainly up to something.

Here is my Political Compass. Not bad to say I started to the right of Ghengis! Now I'm just right of Ghandi

Categories Categories Categories!!!

Am i left or am i right??

Im not a Soup!! Dont Label me!!

reply to post by johnny2127


That test is right wing constructed and should not be trusted!

I took the test and analysed the questions, and they are heavily pro right constructed from the beginning, therefore the test results from such a test would be skewed and false.

I recommend the interested reader to take a more neutral test if you're seriously interested about politics and your personal political standing.

This is what you can read after the test is done:

If we recognise that this is essentially an economic line it's fine, as far as it goes. We can show, for example, Stalin, Mao Tse Tung and Pol Pot, with their commitment to a totally controlled economy, on the hard left. Socialists like Mahatma Gandhi and Robert Mugabe would occupy a less extreme leftist position. Margaret Thatcher would be well over to the right, but further right still would be someone like that ultimate free marketeer, General Pinochet.

www.politicalcompass.org...

This above is further proof that this test is unreliable!

Because most intelligent people know that General Pinochet killed the democratically elected President Salvador Allende on the orders and with the help of Kissinger and the CIA - and here they are hailing him as the best thing since sliced bread "like that ultimate free marketeer"

Imagine that people! this site with their heavily manipulated test is hailing the mass murderer Pinochet as the "ultimate free marketeer!


This is not a neutral test! - this is a test constructed by American conservatives.

That deals with economics, but the social dimension is also important in politics. That's the one that the mere left-right scale doesn't adequately address. So we've added one, ranging in positions from extreme authoritarian to extreme libertarian.

If we analyse this words above! - they are very cleverly telling us, that the economic line is the most important one and that the social one is secondary!

So we've added one, ranging in positions from extreme authoritarian to extreme libertarian.

Meaning:

We didn't want to add a social scale from the beginning since every one SHOULD KNOW that the economic line is the most important thing when to determine and analysing politics - and with the economic line only, it's easier for us to manipulate you.

But to be able to manipulate you further down the line and give a serious impression we had to add one - and it doesn't matter because we can control the results anyway from our pro-right questions in the test - a construction finesse on the behalf of our propaganda engineers.

And this is not the truth if you want a true political compass that should give a result based on neutral questions and neutral perspectives.

A true neutral political compass has always through modern history of society had at least TWO axles and lines to give a proper result, but here are the morons of propaganda telling us that they have ADDED a social scale/line just for us - how damn gracious of them, like we should be thankful for that?

This test contains mostly question from the right perspective towards the left and are leading the questions from the Right perspective.

If the reader wants to deny Ignorance? I urge the reader to go somewhere else to take the test if you are serious about, and genuine interested of your political standing and the results from such a test!

In our home page we demolished the myth that authoritarianism is necessarily "right wing", with the examples of Robert Mugabe, Pol Pot and Stalin. Similarly Hitler, on an economic scale, was not an extreme right-winger. His economic policies were broadly Keynesian, and to the left of some of today's Labour parties. If you could get Hitler and Stalin to sit down together and avoid economics, the two diehard authoritarians would find plenty of common ground.

And Above the Intelligent reader could see how they are "excusing" and "defending" the "right wing" in a very clever way to the reader by manipulation, in the last bolded by me we can see the clever technique of emphasizing the message that Hitler was not an extreme right-winger.

Even if we can clearly read that before that they wrote: on a economic scale - but that doesn't matter because this is braiwashing technique and how the human brain works! when they emphasize words and messages this way the brain remember the message much more than the words they wrote before that.

And this how's manipulating & brainwashing works:

Emphasize and Repeat! - if you do this enough times in a society - the message is planted: Hitler was not an extreme right-winger

Then in stage two it's very easy to say that Hitler was not an extreme right-winger - he was a socialist and a Left-winger

And you see! because your brain has already accepted that was not an extreme right-winger because that message has already been planted by the propaganda people - and from you reading this everywhere in your society over and over again. In your newspaper from the right, TV news from the right, Internet sites from the right wing etc.

(This works the other way around in a Communistic society of course - but it works the same way with the same techniques.)

So in stage two with the second plant, your brain is washed into believing that Hitler is a Socialist and a leftist, because the first plant in your brain is telling you that wasn't an extreme right-winger (which in reality he really was)

So you then ask yourself, thinking - well! I know he isn't an extreme right winger because I have read that information with my own eyes everywhere on sites with my friends, and on right wing blogs sites with very good explainations and arguments.

Heck I even heard it on my favorite radio show and on FOX television.

Now the propaganda people is planting their next thing:

Stage/phase two of the brainwashing - the second plant!

Wham! - Hitler is a Socialist and to the far far left - and heres why: (and at this stage it doesn't matter how incorrect the information is, because your brain will automatically accept and treat the information based on the information in plant number 1 which is 'Master plant'

From there it's easy with plant number 2, 3, 4, 5 and so on.

So if you say 'Al-Qaeda' & 'War on Terror' one million times on FOX-news together with flashy graphics and sound effects - you have the same brainwashing technique. the message is planted and the graphics and sound effects are emphasizing & boosting the plant and message

Same thing: emphasize and repeat, it's sadly not that difficult!

In our home page we demolished the myth that authoritarianism is necessarily "right wing

(again, the emphasize and repeat)

Yeah but while that is true, the defence and the cleverly constructed propaganda of the "Right Wing" is shining through, their rhetoric and techniques & purposes are so damn obvious.

If you could get Hitler and Stalin to sit down together and avoid economics, the two diehard authoritarians would find plenty of common ground.

I haven't seen this good constructed propaganda for manipulating purposes since my days in the Military Intelligence Service.

I urge our European readers to take the test for pure amusement - and see for yourself how the questions are constructed, and how heavily from the Right perspective they really are.

If the reader wants to deny Ignorance? I urge the reader to go somewhere else to take the test if you are serious about, and genuine interested of your political standing and the results from such a test!

This is not a neutral test!


[edit on 1-10-2009 by Chevalerous]