The Lie Machine--Just who is behind the anti-health care reform movement?

I thought this was a very informative article that lays to bear just who is interested in quashing the health care reform bill. Once I read this article, I started leaning more on the side of wanting the bill to pass. I’m mostly on the fence about it. So the purpose of the thread is mainly to shed some light on all the rhetoric coming from the right-wingers for those who, like me, still aren’t sure what to think about the bill.

The article looks longer than it really is. It says it's 4 pages long but it’s just a small column per page. It’s worth the read if you want to take about 10 minutes out of your day. But here's a pretty good synopsis of what it says.

The Lie Machine

Rolling Stone Magazine

On the first day of August, a mob of 200 right-wing Texans stormed the parking lot of a Randalls grocery store in southwest Austin. They were united in a single goal: Disrupt the "office hours" that Rep. Lloyd Doggett, the district's congressman, had scheduled for his constituents. The protesters targeted Doggett for his role in crafting the House's bill to reform health care, brandishing signs that read "No Government Health Care" and "No Government Counselor in My Home!!!" But their anger seemed to encompass a universe of conservative fears: higher taxes, illegal immigration, socialism. The threat of violence was thinly veiled: One agitator held aloft a tombstone with the name Doggett. Screaming, "Just say no!" the mob chased Doggett through the parking lot to an aide's car — roaring with approval as he fled the scene.

Conservatives were quick to insist that the near-riot — the first of many town-hall mobs that would dominate the headlines in August — was completely spontaneous. The protesters didn't show up "because of some organized group," Rick Scott, the head of Conservatives for Patients' Rights, told reporters. "They're mad about the stimulus bill, the bailout, the economy. Now they see that their health care is about to be taken over by the government."

The article goes on to list the four main groups behind the anti-health reform movement. The tea party protests have also been “high-jacked” by these guys. See this thread: The Tea Party Conspiracy? to see a discussion about that. And if you had the same reservations as Uniceft17, now you know have more answers. It’s not a new movement, it’s the same one that been taken over by the right-wing fringe.

Here’s a quick rundown of the four groups that are muddying the waters of the health care debate, inciting rage and playing on people’s emotions instead of allowing for a reasonable debate. I hate to say it but I think Obama is right (*shiver* I can’t believe I just said that) about wanting to try to set the record straight.

The next two groups were born out of split up of the group Citizens for a Sound Economy which was responsible for quashing Hillarycare and was ostensibly backed and funded by Phillip Morris the tobacco company because they didn’t want the reform to pass since it meant higher taxes on cigarettes. Phillip Morris is the same company responsible for shaping Betsy McCaughey’s assertions about “death panels” (more to come on that)
1. Americans for Prosperity:

Americans for Prosperity, which has taken the lead in the current fight against reform, is a front group for oil billionaires David and Charles Koch, co-owners of the world's largest private oil and gas conglomerate.

This group is headed by Tim Phillips, the man who ran a campaign claiming John McCain’s adopted daughter was really his “mulatto love child” and since his becoming the head haunch for AFP, the Tea Party’s have been backed mainly by this group in particular.

2. Freedom Works: Headed by former House Majority Leader Dick Armey.

After FreedomWorks orchestrated the original Tea Party protests last April, it ostensibly handed over the reins of the movement to a third group, called the Tea Party Patriots. But internal correspondence from the group's private listserv obtained by Rolling Stone makes clear that FreedomWorks is still calling the shots. In June, after activists on the list began advocating to change a Tea Party logo, a top official from FreedomWorks stepped in and shut down the discussion. "I talked to everyone here," wrote Brendan Steinhauser, director of federal and state campaigns for FreedomWorks, "and there was consensus that we will keep the logo."

3. Tea Party Patriots: They don’t seem so bad to me except that, as stated above, they are just another patsy group headed by a much larger group with bigger special interests. They are responsible for the town hall meeting disruptions.

The Tea Party Patriots listserv also disseminated the playbook used to instruct the town-hall mobs in the tactics of disruption. Titled "Rocking the Town Halls — Best Practices," the guide was written by a Connecticut tea partier named Bob MacGuffie, who outlined how fewer than three dozen activists could effectively silence a U.S. congressman. "The goal is to rattle him," the memo states. "Yell out and challenge the Rep's statements... have someone else follow-up with a shout-out. Set the tone for the hall as clearly informal and free-wheeling. It will also embolden others who agree with us to call out."

4. Conservatives for Patients Rights: Headed by the same man quoted in the first excerpt from the article, Rick Scott. Who’s Rick Scott? He sounds like one slimy SOB to me, IMHO.

Its founder, Rick Scott, is the former CEO of Columbia/HCA, the world's largest hospital conglomerate. Scott was ousted from the company after it was caught overbilling taxpayers for Medicare treatment; it eventually pleaded guilty to criminal fraud and paid a record $1.7 billion in penalties. Scott now runs a chain of urgent-care clinics that serve uninsured Americans fearful of being bankrupted by hospital emergency-room visits. "He is one of those people who's gotten very, very, very rich off of sick people," says Potter, the former CIGNA executive. "He doesn't want that cash cow to go away — so that's why you're seeing all his money there."

Back to Betsy McCaughey. She is responsible for the “death panels” claim repeated by Sara Palin.

McCaughey first unveiled her "findings" on July 16th, during an appearance on the radio show of former GOP presidential candidate Fred Thompson. "I have just finished reading the House bill," McCaughey declared. "I hope that people listening will protect their parents from what's intended under this bill." Citing page 425 of HR 3200 — a section that outlines the same kind of optional, end-of-life counseling that Republicans have voted for in the past — McCaughey uncorked a terrifying lie. "Congress," she said, "would make it mandatory — absolutely require that every five years, people in Medicare have a required counseling session that will tell them how to end their life sooner." The Obama plan, she added, is financed by "shortening your mother or father's life."

But what has not been reported until now is that McCaughey's writing was influenced by Philip Morris, the world's largest tobacco company, as part of a secret campaign to scuttle Clinton's health care reform. (The measure would have been funded by a huge increase in tobacco taxes.) In an internal company memo from March 1994, the tobacco giant detailed its strategy to derail Hillarycare through an alliance with conservative think tanks, front groups and media outlets.

What an internal memo stated:

"Worked off-the-record with Manhattan and writer Betsy McCaughey as part of the input to the three-part exposé in The New Republic on what the Clinton plan means to you. The first part detailed specifics of the plan."

So once again we have a shill backed by a special interest in order to confuse, derail, and murk up the health care debate.

We here on ATS know better than to buy into all the hype and let “them” control us by using fear and anger. I think if we keep starting threads based of claims that are made by groups like these, they are automatically suspect. These people don’t want health care reform because they make money off of us being sick.

Now, none of this means the Obama Administration is free and clear of any wrong doing, but I don’t think we should just take the word of these people. And I more than welcome any "light shedding" on the Obama Admins true motives. I just haven't really seen anything that seals it for me, yet.

Like I said, I’m still a bit on the fence, but I’ve also been one of the mind that if the wealthy don’t want something so bad that they resort to fear tactics in order to stop reform, it most likely means that the “little people” will benefit from it and they won’t. And when the little people benefit from something that scares the wealthy, it most likely means the wealthy are the ones who are actually afraid of losing control of their minions/slaves. Not to mention losing a small portion of their billions. Since they know that the fear is working so well on them, they figure it will work pretty well on us.

I did not have to read it after you posted where the article was coming form


The Rolling Stone Magazine...............

Great thread nonya... Star and Flag!

It's nice to see where all the "outrage" is stemming from, the false shots of socialism, communism and all the other "ism's" that clearly don't apply.

You're going to be called a liar, they will impugn Rolling Stone as a bad source. All while quoting Glenn Beck and Limbaugh, LOL.

GREAT THREAD!

reply to post by uaocteaou


Thanks. I wasn't aware that Rolling Stone is not a "trusted" source. Oh well.

I already stated and some people should already know that I'm not a blanket supporter of anything Obama-ish or and an avid liberal.

I'm just trying to shed some light on the topic and help those who don't have their minds made up and their opinions set in stone by giving them some information to mull over.

I'm not trying to change the minds of people like the poster above you who would rather dismiss the article all together based on the source instead of perhaps opening their minds to a differing point of view.

I guess people can think all they want of Rolling Stone but the article seems to be well research and investigated. That's just my opinion though.

[edit on 29-9-2009 by nunya13]

1. Jail and a $25,000 fine for refusing to pay for health insurance.
2. Yes there will be rationed care.
3. Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research
www.hhs.gov...

Here is an excerpt from some of the members portfolio :

Dr. Emanuel has authored 3 books and co-edited 4. He developed The Medical Directive, a comprehensive living will that has been endorsed by Consumer Reports on Health, the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and many other publications. He has published widely on the ethics of clinical research, health care reform, international research ethics, end of life care issues, euthanasia, the ethics of managed care

Dr. Haddix co-founded and successfully cultivated Prevention Effectiveness as a scientific discipline at CDC, establishing the first set of methodological guidelines for cost-effectiveness analysis of public health interventions.

Rear Admiral Peter Delany is the Director of the Office of Applied Studies in the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration. He provides direction to a diverse office of professionals charged with the collection, analysis, and dissemination of critical public behavioral health data.

So imagine this scenario, If you don't do exactly what the doctor tells you to do, they slap some fines on ya and then come arrest you. Don't believe that could happen? Just what do you think he has hired such individuals for? Don't believe for a minute that it is for your best interest.

Me, I have read the "Bills" the original and all the amendments. I do not have any affiliation with any groups, just me.
Though I have attended the tea parties in my area, it was After I read the "Bills".

So who is behind the anti- health care reform? It is those of us that Know what they say and don't say.


[edit on 29-9-2009 by Iseekthetruth!!!!!!!!]

reply to post by ohioriver


14,000 people lose health insurance DAILY

45,000 people die because of lack of health insurance Yearly

GOP stood against Medicare
GOP stood against social security
GOP stood against equal pay for women
GOP stands against health insurance reform.

In all of these situations, they started a false scream of "Socialism".

The US ranks just above Slovenia and just below Costa Rica. in health care for it's citizens. We're 37th. There's a rallying cry for you... "U.S.A....We're Number 37"

The us ranks 29th. in infant mortality, nice FACTS huh.

Your thoughts on "Imagine" what could happen. MY information DID happen. Enough scare tactic THEORIES, those are the facts.

[edit on 29-9-2009 by uaocteaou]

Originally posted by ohioriver
1. Jail and a $25,000 fine for refusing to pay for health insurance.
2. Yes there will be rationed care.
3. Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research
www.hhs.gov...

Where did you get the info on the fine?

Insurance companies also ration care.

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to gain by the individuals named as Council members for the FCCCER (too long to retype! )? I'm sorry, sometimes it's just hard for me to read between the lines. Thank you for the info, though, for sure. But could you elaborate?

I've heard many of the things that Emmanuel is accused of. I'm not sure what to believe. I'm a supporter of euthanasia so long as the decision isn't made in haste. What exactly I mean by that, I don't know. But just because someone is for euthanasia doesn't mean they are going to persuade someone to end their life against their will. Although I do see the potential for warped people doing such things.

Very well written, and detailed OP. I believe with the amount of taxation We are forced to pay that We should also have health care; without any more taxes.

These idiots who are out usurping the real Liberty loving American's cause, seem not to care about the wars.

The wars are where the real expense to Our nation originate. So, let's set the healthcare debate aside for a moment. Why aren't these protesters screaming, and foaming at the mouth angry over the frivolous amounts, or I should say insane amounts of money spent on death, and destruction??? It is after all in their name, and with all of Our tax monies. Huh, seems like more sheeple being led by the NEO CONS.

I donno about the current multiple different pieces of Healthcare legislation, but I do absolutely know one thing; should the People unite, instead of being divided, then We would have healthcare without higher taxation.

So, I guess these protesters really are sheeple, and ignorant to what they are doing exactly because they are supporting war, and downing healthcare.

Another way to say that is Death is good, and life, or health is bad.

How about they protest for no more wars, and immediate healthcare provided from existing tax dolllars??? While they are at it they could protest tax cuts, or demand more in return. We are taxed at the level of slaves.................see 2009-The Year Of The Slave
S&F

reply to post by uaocteaou


These are the facts that make me lean more toward supporting the health care bill. However, this does not automatically mean that the bill is the answer to these problems. Like I said in my OP, the Obama Admin could very well have their own agenda to push using this bill.

But, for me, it's hard to imagine that once this bill is passed they are going to be convincing people they should chose death instead, refusing treatments left and right (or at least any more than insurance companies do) or just plain leaving someone to die because their "too old". I'm sure they know that just won't fly with a lot of people and so the "reform" would be DOA.

I have yet to see the claims supported by statement in the bill. So far, most of them seem like assumptions and leaps. I could very well be wrong though because I haven't read it for the simple fact that I really have a hard time deciphering legalese.

Originally posted by uaocteaou
reply to post by ohioriver

 

14,000 people lose health insurance DAILY

45,000 people die because of lack of health insurance Yearly

GOP stood against Medicare
GOP stood against social security
GOP stood against equal pay for women
GOP stands against health insurance reform.

In all of these situations, they started a false scream of "Socialism".

The US ranks just above Slovenia and just below Costa Rica. in health care for it's citizens. We're 37th. There's a rallying cry for you... "U.S.A....We're Number 37"

The us ranks 29th. in infant mortality, nice FACTS huh.

Your thoughts on "Imagine" what could happen. MY information DID happen. Enough scare tactic THEORIES, those are the facts.

[edit on 29-9-2009 by uaocteaou]

I don't know where you get your numbers but check this out.
Health Status, Health Insurance, and
Health Services Utilization: 2001 Issued February 2006

It seems it is going to take a while to get more current numbers since it took 5 years to get this out, but check page 9.

www.census.gov...

reply to post by Iseekthetruth!!!!!!!!

Me, I have read the "Bills" the original and all the amendments.

I do not have any affiliation with any groups, just me. Though I have attended the tea parties in my area, it was After I read the "Bills".

So who is behind the anti- health care reform? It is those of us that Know what they say and don't say.

I agree. There is a lot of rhetoric in the banker owned Mass media trying to marginalize anyone who does not supported the Banker/Corporate Agenda. For the last couple of years I and others have been called Disinfo agents and worse by the USDA when we tried to stand up for our selves against the big Ag Cartel.

This true story from a friend and fellow horseman, shows how down and dirty the fighting can get NAIS Supporters Fighting Dirty If I had not been a part of this fight for three years, perhaps I would be naive enough to believe our government and Congress was not corrupt. Now I am no longer naive just scared to death. Remember the Ag Cartel is the same companies as the Big Pharma Cartel and the wield a lot of power. Pres. Clinton was behind both the reorganization of our food laws, WTO agreement on Ag AND health Care reform. Coincidence?? I think not.

Since it is apparent that some of you think our government agencies are above board, let me share a story of my recent experience.

I have been heavily involved with the anti-NAIS movement since March of 2005. I have done literally thousands of hours of research - including obtaining hundreds of pages of government documents via the Freedom of Information Act. I researched both sides of this issue as objectively as I could,... I wrote several articles on the subject of NAIS and horses, which have been published in a variety of places....

And so, my name became *known* to the USDA and my State Dept of Agriculture. And here is where you will see just how far they will go to prevent the 'other side' from being heard...

I purchased vendor space at a recent Horse Expo in my state. ... All was fine until my State Dept of Agriculture found out that I would be there as they had purchased vendor space as well. They succeeded in having me banned from the expo because I would be a 'negative influence'!

The ACLU took my case - the first one in the USA involving NAIS - and went after my State Dept of Ag.

My State Dept of Ag vehemently denied any wrongdoing. They turfed it all on the shoulders of the expo organizers, claiming that they simply asked that they be moved to another location in the expo away from me.

Technically it should have stopped there, .. But the ACLU believed the whole story 'stunk of censorship' .. They then had conversations with the expo organizers and a very interesting story emerged in where even names were named from my State Dept of Ag. They informed the expo organizers that I had been at a huge Farm Expo last August (Untrue as I working). They claimed that I harassed people, was rude and obnoxious and had even caused a riot to break out over NAIS! ...

My State Dept of Ag also provided the expo organizers with numerous e-mails that I had written about NAIS - going back an entire year. I saw these e-mails from our State Dept of Ag with my own eyes. It was then that I realized they are actually tracking me on the internet.

To make a long story short, the expo organizers were convinced by the ACLU that it was in their best interest to allow me back in...


It was quite interesting to listen to 'the story' people were told at the Animal ID booth. Some outright lies and a whole lot of omission of information to coerce people into registering their premises. I had printed out the NAIS pages from our State Dept of Ag's website and had copies of their brochure, which turned out to be a smart move. People were horrified when they got to my booth and read for themselves what this program really entails. They were also shocked at the amount of money our state has received from the USDA to implement NAIS (I had a copy of that official govt document as well). It doesn't take a rocket scientist to connect the dots once you start following the money trail.

I share this story to prove a point. First and foremost, this is the USA, not a communist country! We, as citizens have a right under the Constitution to express our opinion. Second, these govt agencies will stoop at nothing to push this program through! They will lie to your face and deliberately leave out information that you have a right to know. Third, I encourage everyone to research this program themselves BEFORE you agree to anything.

Control the Food, Control The People - Kissinger

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones


Hey Sancho! Thanks for gracing my thread with your presence. Truly.

They don't react the same way to the war because they have been led to believe it makes them safer. And if someone has to die to ensure their safety, they dont' care.

Now, their being made to believe they are the ones who will die in order that some lazy, fat ass living on welfare can go to the doctor when he has the flu.

People can be against the bill all they want. What bothers me is that they don't seem to have legitimate, substantiated reasons to be against it.

reply to post by crimvelvet


This, I do think, is a good reason to worry about government run health care--control healthcare, control the people.

I'm really stuck between a rock and a hard place here because I see legitimate concerns on both sides, I just don't think that doing nothing is even remotely an option.

Our health care is already controlled by the insurance companies whose main concern is making a profit, not providing the means to have a healthy populace.

It is my belief that their are a number of people who would otherwise be productive members of society if it weren't for the fact that they are sick and therefore can't work and therefore can't afford health insurance. I just can't help but wonder how many would become productive members of society if they were provided with an alternative health care option by the government.

The rock is knowing exactly why the insurance companies and other organizations don't want the government option. It's knowing that there's a lot of confused, scared people out their who are against the reform out of ignorant ideas fed to them by special interests.

But the hard place I'm in is being suspect of the government motives to want to provide us with health care if everything else they do is for the sheer benefit of the special interests that back them.

*sigh*

Originally posted by nunya13

Originally posted by ohioriver
1. Jail and a $25,000 fine for refusing to pay for health insurance.
2. Yes there will be rationed care.
3. Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research
www.hhs.gov...

Where did you get the info on the fine?

Insurance companies also ration care.

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to gain by the individuals named as Council members for the FCCCER (too long to retype!

)? I'm sorry, sometimes it's just hard for me to read between the lines. Thank you for the info, though, for sure. But could you elaborate?

I've heard many of the things that Emmanuel is accused of. I'm not sure what to believe. I'm a supporter of euthanasia so long as the decision isn't made in haste. What exactly I mean by that, I don't know. But just because someone is for euthanasia doesn't mean they are going to persuade someone to end their life against their will. Although I do see the potential for warped people doing such things.

SEC. 59B. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.
`(a) Tax Imposed- In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of--
`(1) the taxpayer's modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year, over
`(2) the amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer

Subsection (d) refers to "acceptable coverage". Which the Govt. will decide what that will be. In other words, even if I Have insurance, if it does not meet the Govt. standards I will be fined/taxed.

While I agree that many groups are behind the anti health care reform, we have been purposely divided so we stay blind of the real intention of this bill reform.

Mandatory health care should be a red flag on anybody here, mandatory purchasing of private insurance should follow.

The bill have nothing to do with socialized health care and neither with government taking over health care.

Only private insurance companies will be the ones offering their goods.

Wake up people leave the party lines aside and read and see the true intention of this bill.

mandatory health care from private insurance sources.

reply to post by nunya13

Thanks. I wasn't aware that Rolling Stone is not a "trusted" source. Oh well.

Its a well know leftist publication. If someone posted an article from Newsmax about the liberal "lies" about Iraq, what would you have said?

Originally posted by nunya13
reply to post by uaocteaou

 

Thanks. I wasn't aware that Rolling Stone is not a "trusted" source. Oh well.

How about this ... forget the source and investigate all the information independently.

Lest you be persuaded by others' deflections.

reply to post by nunya13

But the hard place I'm in is being suspect of the government motives to want to provide us with health care if everything else they do is for the sheer benefit of the special interests that back them.

Yes I would love to be able to go to the doctor but this bill has too much government control written into ot. I keep thinking of the Federal Reserve Act. It too was a bill brought by democrats. It was not too bad but there have been over 100 amendments since then to turn it into the money making rape machine it has become today. That is what my real fear is about this bill and the food safety bills. The bills once passed do not remain static. riders on other bills gradually change an OK bill into a monster. Right now the name of the game is just to get the main bill passed they can fix it later.

..at the insistence of Paul Warburg who was forever the master strategist, they added several very sound provisions to the Federal Reserve Bill... "Relax fellas, don't you get it? Our object is to get the bill passed. We can fix it up later." Those were his exact words. "We can fix it up later." ..With this kind of professional strategy and deception these people were real professionals and the public didn't stand a chance.

I am sure some where in Washington DC those same words are being spoken. Are we the public going to be deceive another time by the same money hungry Central Bankers??

And then at the insistence of Paul Warburg who was forever the master strategist, they added several very sound provisions to the Federal Reserve Bill. By that I mean they added some provisions which seriously restricted the ability of the Federal Reserve to create money out of nothing. Warburg's associates said, "Paul, what are you doing? We don't want those in there this is our bill." And his response was this, he said, "Relax fellas, don't you get it? Our object is to get the bill passed. We can fix it up later." Those were his exact words. "We can fix it up later." He was so right. It was because of those provisions that they won over the support of William Jennings Bryan the head of the Populist Movement, the last hold-out against the bill. Bryan was concerned that this would be an instrument for ruining the nation's money supply but when he saw those provisions he said, "Oh well, those are good provisions, I guess I can support the bill now" never dreaming that this was temporary. Everything is temporary in politics. When people go to sleep things can get changed.

Warburg was right and they fixed it up later. The Federal Reserve Act since it was passed has been amended over 100 times. Every one of those provisions were long ago removed and many more have been added which greatly expand the power and reach of the Federal Reserve System to create money out of nothing. With this kind of professional strategy and deception these people were real professionals and the public didn't stand a chance. It is no surprise that popular support was finally gained for the bill and on December 22, 1913 the bill was passed by Congress... www.bigeye.com...

Control the Food, Control The People - Kissinger

Originally posted by marg6043
While I agree that many groups are behind the anti health care reform, we have been purposely divided so we stay blind of the real intention of this bill reform.

Mandatory health care should be a red flag on anybody here, mandatory purchasing of private insurance should follow.

The bill have nothing to do with socialized health care and neither with government taking over health care.

Only private insurance companies will be the ones offering their goods.

Wake up people leave the party lines aside and read and see the true intention of this bill.

mandatory health care from private insurance sources.

The thing is, Govt. health insurance will be cheaper because they have less overhead.
If and when you loose your healthcare, layoff, divorce etc. you will either have to buy the publilc health ins. which will be cheaper or get private ins. which we all know is expensive.
It will not take long for the Govt. to have the market on health Ins. A few years maybe.
Now go look at the Govt. run Medicare and Medicaid programs which are going broke.