9/11: When over HALF the American population knows..

Originally posted by Rewey

Originally posted by justamomma
People went to jail for trying to stir up the public to chaos.

Ahhh... might want to read up on some history, there...

I was under the assumption you were speaking according to this particular topic. If you were going off topic by speaking generically, then perhaps you should be so kind to make others aware that you are losing focus.

As it pertains to this topic, too many conspiracy theorists insist that they are jailed for the truth they alone (or a handful) are privy to ... then, upon seeing the evidence of what led to their incarceration, it becomes clear they brought it on themselves via provocation.

[edit on 29-9-2009 by justamomma]

Originally posted by justamomma
I was under the assumption you were speaking according to this particular topic. If you were going off topic by speaking generically, then perhaps you should be so kind to make others aware that you are losing focus.

Did you even read what I wrote? Here it is again:

Originally posted by Rewey
Funny. I think you'll find that the geocentric model was the 'Official Story'. People went to jail for preaching the 'truth'.

I was clearly talking about the geocentric model... it was in the line before it. That was me being 'so kind', as you wished...

And before you go on about me 'losing focus', it was a direct reference to Lasheic, who brought up the geocentric model and tried to associate it with the intellect of 'truthers'. I was merely pointing out the irony that, historically, the geocentric model would be the pre-Renaissance equivalent of the 'Official Story', not the 'truth movement'. Hence the irony. Sorry if that was too complex for you to follow...

Rewey

Originally posted by Lasheic
reply to post by OmegaPoint

 

a good 20% are either with us or leaning our way.

Oddly enough, that's about the same percentage of Americans who think the Sun revolves around the Earth.

Are you going to post something to back this LIE up.

Originally posted by Gixxer

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
We seem to have gotten the information out to about 1/3rd of the US population now, and a good 20% are either with us or leaning our way.
[edit on 29-9-2009 by OmegaPoint]

You see that is your problem right there, your so into something you start exagerating and making things up right from the get-go wich is also the problem with your whole "movement"

a plainly state you have gotten info to 1/3 the population (debateable)
and another 20% are coming over to your side......

so you completley make up 2 numbers add them together and declare over half the population knows the so called truth...........

You truth seekers have cut your own throats on the movement with these exact same strategys , instead of pushing issues like"why did tower 7 fall" you go and make wild claims that no halfway inteligent person could ever back , therefor making your entire group look foolish and wacko like the ones who claim "there was no plane" or" its all cgi" .


also P.S its been 8 years you lost go home.

Actually even a bone head can see that youngsters facing
the re-instatement of the DRAFT, kids witnessing the BODIES
of their loved ones returning from wars, predicated on FALSE FLAG operations---
They are putting down the game controls and TAKING NOTICE.
I suggest you do as well.
It took 40 years to get the Northwoods papers but we got-em don't we?

PS please, do tell all you know about BUILDING SEVEN while you are at it.

[edit on 29-9-2009 by Donny 4 million]

Not surprised. It usually takes some time for people to wake up.

Originally posted by Naeem82
everyone knows

yet they are unable to act

what do we call that? a slave

how do the americans fight the industrial complex, illuminati, masons, etc?
cant use violence to counter, but the peaceful protests go nowhere (got a permit? lol? isnt permits to protest a horrible irony?)

the law systems are horribly twisted and can provide no justice


dont ask questions, dont look behind the curtains,

[edit on 29-9-2009 by Naeem82]

Ah! My good observant person.
Pray tell, from where you hail?
Tell us all about your wonderful freedom.
Never a 911 in your fantasy land?
We spell America with a capital A

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
We seem to have gotten the information out to about 1/3rd of the US population now, and of them a good 20% are either with us or leaning our way.

I would predict, that, when polls show OVER a full fifty percent of the American population generally agrees with much of the information presented by the 9/11 truth movement, that at that moment, there will be a shift, not in military affairs, but in human affairs.

We need to stop letting them label us individually as "truthers" and throw that monicur off and re-claim our position as that of the 9/11 truth MOVEMENT, because a movement is what it is, and we are just regular everyday people who cannot look at the evidence and then divorce our own rational faculties, in favour of what appears to be a hoax, a deadly myth, and a willful and complicit cover-up, of what really happened.

So massive progress, more I think that any of us could have imagined possible, has been realized, in terms of our ability to altogether bypass the meainstream media channels, as mere individuals, spread out all over the world, who came to question the accepted "truth" about 9/11, and who thereafter, continued, with unrelenting, presistent continuous action, until either justice was done, or until history gets the story straight for the sake of all future generations - to keep the issue sqaurely ON THE TABLE.

Will history turn in our favour, even if justice will not in the present for the likes of Dick Cheney and George W. Bush, Condi Rice, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Pearl, Dov Zakheim, Abrhams, Meyers, Philip Zelikow, etc. etc. (it's a long list)?

It will, and it is, quickly.

We done good, 9/11 truth movement community of concerned citizens!

Time to push on in, and through to the other side, eh? (click my sig)

We will get there, and at some point the MSM are going to have to face their terrible complicity in propogating the official story line, and, cowtowing to big corporate special interest, where it intersects government influence, spouting nothing but propaganda for the machine.

The machine, it's like we've been throwing ourselves at the machine all these years, determined never to let go, and suffer the fate of the likes of Winston in the book 1884.

It is an information war, a psychological war, and by God I think we might be able to win it!

Go 9/11 truth movement - let's see this thing go all the way and alter our collectively shared perceptions about history and our immediate past, obliterating Zelikow's myth, in favour of reality itself.

There's peace in that.. and breathing space.

[edit on 29-9-2009 by OmegaPoint]

You are defiantly correct Omeg
I started posting this past spring on other threads.
I became interested in the 911 battle raging on these threads.
I thought folks could or would be able to discuss the anomalies
of that tragic day maturely.
I have been incensed by the concerted effort of the seemingly paid for
disinformation agents and their cronies.
The best part is what you have explained above.
I propose counting flags and stars to prove the increased interest in
the reality of 911.
It would be a daunting task but be worthwhile.
Those facts are right before our eyes.

reply to post by Rewey

Funny. I think you'll find that the geocentric model was the 'Official Story'. People went to jail for preaching the 'truth'. I don't know why you'd claim that 'skeptics debunked' that. Surely what you mean is that 'ye olde twoofers' pointed out how things actually worked until the 'Official Story' had nowhere to turn...?

At the time, however, Geocentric model had the preponderance of evidence, and the backing of powerful religious movements such as the Pythagoreans during the Hellenistic Era, and the Roman Catholics thereafter. Aristarchus is the first one to propose heliocentric model with strong evidence - but that evidence was mostly observational and mathematical. And it wasn't comprehensive. While impressive for 2,300 years ago - he was nowhere near as close to measuring the distance and size of the Sun and planets as Eratosthenes was in measuring the Earth's circumference. Nor could his model predict solar events, partially due to the fact he didn't account for elliptical orbits and couldn't patch it the way Geocentrics had.... a problem that would persist until Kepler.

Unfortunately Aristarchus's work has been largely lost to war and the fires fanatics set to the Library declaring it a pagan affront to their god. However, Claudius Ptolemaeus's Almagest still exists if you care to read it. Considering the evidence of the time, it's status as definitive was well earned. Although Heliocentric model was debated and toyed with by Islamic, Greek, Roman, and other scholars - it never gained proper traction.

Keep in mind that at this time, "Science" wasn't really around as we know it. Today's science is about disproving and discrediting bad ideas. In the more Aristotolean methods, logic was used to establish axioms (truths) about the world which from there one used to try to prove their case. The Scientific Revolution was more of a tying together of several threads of existing academic study - while questioning even the axioms of Aristotle. Newton's physics experiments, Kepler's mathematical description of elliptical orbits, Galileo's observations with his telescope... these are what provided the evidence necessary to change minds and kick off the revolution in thought. The Catholic Church, however, provided the most resistance at this point. They were more interested in preserving dogma, than following the evidence.

This, IMO, is a similarity between Conspiracy Theorists, Faith Based Reasoning, and Aristotelian methods. Most CTers didn't come to their position by following the evidence. For many, their mind is already made up as to what is the truth and what is not. Evidence is accepted not on merit, but on it's ability to advance the movement - even if it's incorrect it's still sold to the gullible as if it were truth. The disconnect between reality and their chosen "truth" is so vast that one HAS to suspect conspiracy just to try to defend the position. This is evident elsewhere as well. Christian fundamentalists claim "conspiracies of science" to denounce god in light of no evidence. Racist Nationalist movements claim similar conspiracies of science - as genetics and evolution does not support their chosen position. Homeopaths denounce medical science as a Conspiracy. Some fringe behaviorists still denounce Cognitive Science as "reductionist pornography". Yet science only works, however, because it attempts to remove observer bias using methodologies such as peer-review and reproducibility in an attempt to follow the evidence, even over cherished beliefs. Those attempts to circumvent the scientific method and remove falsification because they cannot abandon their axioms even in light of evidence is called pseudoscience.

So... it wasn't actually "troofers" who overthrew a conspiracy to establish Heliocentricism... it was the establishment of the Scientific Method, the invention of modern science, which used evidence to prove their points... not the house of cards patch-by-patch arguments needed to correlate axioms to reality despite evidence.

To segway from here into a response to Donny 4 million, the more commonly reported figure is 1/5 American Adults believe the Sun travels around the Earth. Though I've seen figures bounce back and forth between 1/5th and 1/3rd. I would suggest it depends on where you're drawing your samples from.

The 1/5th number comes from a Harris Poll survey result. The 1/3rd number, I'll admit, I don't have a source for. I recalled hearing it several years ago around the time of Kitzmiller vs. Dover on a site with a strong liberal bias. I don't necessarily doubt the numbers, however, considering that separate polls consistently turn up figures between 42% and 51% of Americans believing in YEC or Special Creation over Evolution - a figure of 1/3 Americans believing in the Geocentric model is not outside the realm of possibility if YEC creationists polled were slightly disproportionate due to location the poll was sampled in.

Considering the Biblical Support given to Geocentric model, I simply don't find it surprising that religious fundamentalists who claim the Earth is less than 10,000 years old, who deny Evolution at any cost, who think Dinosaurs lived in the Garden of Eden with man, and who willing and proudly admit that all that evidence is secondary to their chosen axiom - Scripture - (See: Answers in Genesis, Association for Biblical Astronomy, etc) could believe in something so asinine in large and organized numbers.

By definition, no apparent, perceived or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the scriptural record. ~ Answers in Genesis

This site is devoted to the historical relationship between the Bible and astronomy. It assumes that whenever the two are at variance, it is always astronomy—that is, our "reading" of the "Book of Nature," not our reading of the Holy Bible—that is wrong. History bears consistent witness to the truth of that stance. ~ Geocentricity.com

Though, please keep in mind that that initial comment was "tongue-in-cheek" - not a deliberate intention to deceive. My standards of evidence dropped in that case for the sake of making a sarcastic snipe. It wasn't intended to be taken very seriously. Though, if you do want to get down to quoted sources - I can list several for the 1/5 statistic... which, personally, does it really matter if it's 1/3 or 1/5? Either number is far, far too large to be acceptable in a Nation which wishes to ensure their position of leadership in world affairs.

[edit on 5-10-2009 by Lasheic]