Does 'EVIL' Reincarnate?

I know this will sound ridiculous, or even retarded to some of you and you always have the option of leaving now and not looking back. I'm making an effort to reconcile a discrepancy in my infantile belief system and your input WOULD be appreciated.

I don't need to be TOLD how stupid my beliefs are, or how I'm going to burn in Hell for being a heretic, or that I'm an idiot to have a belief in a higher power. Thanks in advance for decorum, open-mindedness and compassionate discourse.

MY beliefs are a patchwork, multicolored jacket that I wear for comfort when things are too big for me to grasp. I don't know that I'm too alone in that regard. Please be patient as I try to provide some background for my difficulty. I'll start with some of my personal beliefs. (not very interesting, but necessary to establish the context of my issue)

I believe in reincarnation, or at least I think I do. There have been some pretty mysterious happenings that have been assimilated into my consciousness that support this belief, but surely, they, like most other 'evidence', could be discredited.

I also have a very juvenile concept of 'good' and 'evil', of course, nurtured by societal norms, spiritual 'baby steps', religious texts, parental influence and my own awe at the atrocities one man can commit against another and great displays of compassion and generosity.

I have read that some people feel that a cycle of reincarnation is employed towards us by a higher power, or group of higher powers, until we have learned the lesson that we came here for and thus removed the need for further reincarnation. When we have evolved to the spiritual 'place' or 'state' that allows it, we are free from the burden of continuous PHYSICAL existence on this planet.

I share a belief with some others that we made a conscious decision, prior to this physical life, to take on a physical form in order to participate in this process of physical life, for whatever motivation. My personal belief is that it was to show love and faith towards my higher power. To prove to my higher power, and myself that I was capable of love, understanding, compassion, faith, tolerance and a host of other 'righteous' attitudes and actions, while forgoing the compulsion to satiate physical desires. (ok...I've not made NEAR the progress I should have, but heck, I AM human. :p )

I have also been exposed to the notion that as we go through this cycle of reincarnation, it is possible for our souls to be reincarnated into a 'lower' form of physical being, dependent on how we handled ourselves. I struggle more than others, but it is as believable to me as reincarnation itself. I've been called an 'old soul' before and I think that is along this same assumptive line of belief.

OK. Now, I will try to explain my issue. I'm sorry if it is as incoherent in writing as it is when it plagues my thoughts.

I believe in Sin, or 'wrong.' When I commit an act that is contrary to my belief system or what I perceive as the guidelines for my behavior, I think have done 'wrong' or 'sinned.' One of my beliefs tells me that when I sin, I have done 'evil.' Again, my understanding of the concept of evil is limited by my ability to grasp it.

Part of my upbringing tells me that ALL people sin, or do wrong. There are varying degrees of 'wrong' based again, on mostly societal norms, but that essentially, ALL people have done 'evil' when a conscious decision to do something outside of these norms is considered 'evil.' There is no doubt that most cultures would consider eating a baby as VERY wrong, and not nearly as 'bad' as say, cheating on your taxes. I find it unhealthy to hide behind justifications and rationalizations when looking at my actions, so often, 'wrong' to me, is 'wrong' no matter the 'degree.'

Hitting my wife would be as 'wrong' to me as kicking the cat. Please don't mistake my argument. I love my wife and would be willing to sacrifice the well being of the cat, far before my wife. (You KNOW I love you, baby.) The point for me, is that 'wrong', or 'evil' is only given gradations by my lack of ability to understand it and my need to put it into terms that mostly, I can use to rationalize. A silly example:

Observer: 'Hey, you kicked the cat!! You're bad!!'
Me: "Well, yeah, I kicked the cat, but at least I don't beat my wife!"

I've used my immature rationalization and artificial benchmarks on 'evil' to make it ok for me to have kicked the cat.

So, the conclusion that I have come to, is that 'wrong' is 'wrong', no matter the 'degree.' Since we have ALL been 'wrong' and 'wrong' in this regard equals 'evil' in my mind, we have all been 'evil.' If you don't like that, feel free to leave or explain to me how this could not be. (I really believe that issues of divine forgiveness or 'changing of our ways' are irrelevant for this argument, but again, feel free to enlighten me if you seem fit and have the energy.)

Let me recap my silly problem:

We reincarnate
We've all done something 'evil.' ....so
'Evil' people have been reincarnated.

You may know where I'm going with this, or you may not even care, but if you didn't you probably wouldn't have read this far.

So, given this logic, (agreed, probably faulty) my problem is this:

If I was evil before I was reincarnated, where was I? If I was in a place with my higher power, and made a choice to come here, that would mean that 'evil' was in the presence of my higher power.

I don't know that I really expect any answers, I'm just trying to learn what is implausible with my faulty system.

Do you think Hitler could have been reincarnated? Was he evil in his previous life?
Where did HIS soul come from before this physical life? Was he hanging out with a higher power before he came here? Can a child be born 'evil?' Is 'evil' just a by-product of physical existence? Are angels 'physical?'

If you believe in 'evil', do you think there are 'degrees' of evil? Was Hitler more 'evil' than a guy that cheats on his taxes? If he were able to receive divine forgiveness, would his forgiveness be any less likely than the tax cheat?

If I am 'wrong' in this life, a.k.a 'evil', and I have to reincarnate again till I 'get it right', where am I waiting in the meantime? Did I start out evil? Did I just 'become' evil when I was born?

The bottom line is, I'm trying to figure out where an 'evil' soul comes from when it is put into a physical body. If an evil, unrepentant soul is sent to Hell when the body dies, where did it come from in the first place?

I realize this all sounds pretty silly to some, but it is nothing short of a completely radical shift in my belief system that leaves me scratching my head at the inconsistencies I am willing to overlook to keep myself comfortable in my beliefs. I really look forward to any constructive input anyone might have to help me wipe the mud from my eyes in this instance.

Am I being retarded?
























[edit on 27-9-2009 by KSPigpen]

reply to post by KSPigpen



Short answer, yes.

Longer answer. . . .

yes, because evil is a man-made concept. We define it and it is separate from the spiritual belief of reincarnation.

Having your turn signal on to the left or the right has no bearing on whether there is enough pressure in your tires.

Just my humble wee opinion. Always do enjoy your threads though.

You are more confusing than I tend to be at times.

There is no such thing as an evil soul. Soul and our nature are two different things.

Man is born evil due ignorance. Ignorance is the greatest evil and is the basis of evil because we tend to judge without knowing, tend to speak without understanding, tend to fight without the why, tend to give in to passions only to regret them later. The wiser you become through experience and the more educated you become through knowledge the less evil you are however, evil is our true nature because of impulses, motives, and desires.

We discuss the elites and NWO here - what does it take to be that evil? Pure ignorance. Ignorance, to quote 1984, is strength and if you play ignorant to the problems of humanity until your core is rotten then you are truly evil.

Evil is also the perversion of knowledge. It is when you take knowledge and use it for evil means. Take for example, fluoride. Scientists know that it is bad to consume at a high percentage (and not really supposed to be consumed!) but the government fluoridates water yet we brush our teeth with toothpaste with fluoride included and are told to spit it out.

Good is a nature Man does not possess but has to attain through the cutting away of his ego. Look at babies and toddlers - they have this Me-ego and it is quite natural. When they want something, they cry or threaten to, because they know instinctively this will work or at least this is the only way they know how to get what they want. Then when they get older, they learn to share and to be unselfish.

My little sister is quite a selfish one but she is also a listener. When I came home from college last summer, I took her to a fair and she won a prize. She then saw a little girl who was sad about not being able to win anything. I told my sister to give her the prize she won. The little girl said thank you and smiled. I asked my sister how does she feel, "I feel great." She actually said that. I was shocked. That goodness, though simple, made her feel great.

The ultimate good is the complete destruction of the ego for the flag of truth by being completely honest with yourself and to others, by being not possessed by your possessions and if you so lose those things, you do not worry about it, and by conquering the fear of death by knowing you are going to die some day. Even if you do believe in reincarnation, you know you will die again and again - so why not be good?

Though society conditions to believe what is good and what is not, I believe the greatest good is that of benefiting others even if they are unappreciative.

Goodness is something attained by practice. Evil is quite natural.

I have these tight black skinny jeans and when I put them on and zip up my boots, I swear I want to click my heels and 'Seig Heil', it can be quite overpowering at times. As a result, I have become quite convinced I was Heinrich Himmler in a previous life. It would explain a great deal (though not in an obvious way). There'd be a beautiful irony in it if indeed it were the true, but you'd have to know me pretty well to see what I mean, and some details should not be shared in such a public arena.

Yes it does. We are many different species in source. Some are lyraean and pleiadian. Some could be called human because they have reincarnated for so long here now that they are changed from their source. There are black op agents, sleepers, that are reincarnated from teh reptillian, annanuki, grey, and draconian source. If you develop your insight and push past the boundaries on not getting info in you will start to see who people are in source. But demons aren't real. That is a delusion.

I don't think evil reincarnates itself but this is just my opinion. I think it comes from the outside and makes its way to the soul. Why would life be worth living if a soul is evil to start with? I think everyone has a choice to make in life and if that choice goes to the evil side then evil is welcomed in to that persons soul. So I don't believe in evil reincarnating only that of a choice will be made.

I think everyone reincarnates but that doesn't mean the new incarnation will be evil again. So Hitler reincarnates/reincarnated but not necceserily as Hitler 2.0, he had that experience already, time for something new maybe. And i agree that evil is a subjective experience, subject to culture, upbringing, personality and a bunch of other stuff like not seeing the big picture of what life really entails.

[edit on 27-9-2009 by Harman]

I think almost everyone comes back until all the lessons are learned.

I also believe that about 50% of what is defined as 'evil' or 'sin' is irrelevant in the long run.

Evil itself won't die as long as we exist as mortals. I think however that there are certain evil souls that purposefully, repeatedly and completely turn away from the light.

I believe that we are all given chances over and over again to make things right, but at some point there are souls that choose to actively renounce light. At this point I believe these souls are simply removed from existence. No eternal fire, no eternal darkness... just a cessation in being.

reply to post by mikerussellus

yes, because evil is a man-made concept. We define it and it is separate from the spiritual belief of reincarnation.

I think I'm getting closer to understanding this, despite the truckloads of dogma I have been exposed to and have chosen to believe on more than one occasions.

So, given your belief that the human idea of good and evil, which I share to some degree is separate from the belief of reincarnation, do you feel the 'passing grade' that one achieves in order to end the 'cycle' of reincarnation is not based on behavior? Is our behavior separate from our soul? Is it more a product of our mind, and our physical chemistry, or does it go deeper than that?

If I was Hitler, reincarnated (just for a ludicrous example), would I not be in essence, 'predestined' to behave the same way, or follow a similar path? Do you think at reincarnation our past is wiped clean, or that a 'veil' is placed over that knowledge or experience?

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts with us, Mike.

reply to post by DevilJin


Wow, DJ. That puts a different spin on things for me. Thanks.

Goodness is something attained by practice. Evil is quite natural.

Ignoring the idea that good and evil are merely labels that we as humans ascribe to actions or ideals so that we categorize and attempt to have some control over them, this really makes a lot of sense and fits in with many religious teachings.

I know it is a Christian belief that we are born out of 'sin' and that we ALL are sinners...but it seems sometimes that through Christianity, the best we could ever hope for would be forgiveness....and strength to prevail in the constant onslaught of sin in our lives...

It does seem odd though to equate evil to ignorance. I mean, I can certainly rally behind that, but I think of some that have been considered genius by human standards that have either themselves perpetrated 'evil' acts, or through their actions have facilitated that evil in others...I think of the atom bomb, for example. It seems that would qualify as a product of genius, but yet it vaporized a couple hundred humans at once. That sounds pretty evil to me, until you I start rationalizing about it ending a war and saving lots of other lives and all that.

The issue I have, I suppose is that those labels can just be so open to individual interpretation. Vlad the Impaler was considered evil by many, but a 'hero' to a lot of his countrymen.

So, if I understand you correctly, it is ignorance through selfishness, or attributing value falsely to material possessions that constitutes evil in your mind and we are ALL born evil. Is that it in a nutshell?

Awesome input and I thoroughly appreciate it.

reply to post by shamhat


Um. Ok.

:p

reply to post by Unity_99

Yes it does. We are many different species in source. Some are lyraean and pleiadian. Some could be called human because they have reincarnated for so long here now that they are changed from their source. There are black op agents, sleepers, that are reincarnated from teh reptillian, annanuki, grey, and draconian source. If you develop your insight and push past the boundaries on not getting info in you will start to see who people are in source. But demons aren't real. That is a delusion.

My enlightenment is not suffiecient to accept all of this yet, I'm afraid, so I will continue my quest. So, are you saying that evil is not just a human construct? That evil exists and has existed on other worlds and that evil beings reincarnate the same as those that are more compassionate, or 'well-behaved' for lack of a better descriptor? Would an evil being be subject to more reincarnations than one who was 'good'?

reply to post by Harman

I think everyone reincarnates but that doesn't mean the new incarnation will be evil again. So Hitler reincarnates/reincarnated but not necceserily as Hitler 2.0, he had that experience already, time for something new maybe. And i agree that evil is a subjective experience, subject to culture, upbringing, personality and a bunch of other stuff like not seeing the big picture of what life really entails.

In a way, I suppose that this could have been what I was really getting at. If we are born with the same souls that we had before, just in a different body, would our actions not be similar? Is decision making a function of the soul, or the mind? Is the mind the soul?

So I suppose, given your viewpoint, Hitler could really be the lady sacking groceries at the wal-mart who has two cats and treats everyone with love and compassion?

That idea blows my mind. It also sort of kicks my beliefs in the ass. Does it not take away some of the 'motivation' a person would have in the world to do 'good' knowing that they just get another shot after this one? I KNOW that the motivation do good in the world should not come from fear of eternal damnation, but do you think that evil 'souls' could continue to be evil regardless of the number of times they are reincarnated?

(thank you for your contribution, by the way. )

reply to post by emsed1


If you don't mind, I think I'll start believing this way too.

Seriously though, that sounds very plausible. Certainly makes as much sense as anything else I've ever heard.

I'm really just speechless and will have to think about this one for as few hours, I'm afraid.

Thank you very much for taking the time to share this with us.

I just wanted to say: I have profound respect for those who believe while maintaining the idea that they could be wrong or just the idea the belief is a belief and not 'iron clad' or dogmatic. Kudos there.

I would say it sounds like the arguments of Plato, Socrates and maybe even Epicurus-the attempting to rationalize what evil is -"Stealing a loaf of bread is evil to the baker, but good to your children whom you have just fed.". As for whether it is truely reincarnated in the spiritual sense-like a karmic taint.. I have doubts because there is no need. People of every generation get desperate or so messed up in some act that they resort to things that "normal" people would not. Then theres the concept of lack of learning from the past. The "Repeating history" idea. Simple fact is people today are just as stupid as people 500 years ago, we are just more efficient with the methods that we use to harm and destroy.

If you are asking "Do evil people get reincarnated?" that is something else, according to the major faiths that speak of reincarnation-all people are. The actions define the next state of incarnation. But more over I do not think an evil act automatically makes someone evil. I am sure even the most twisted serial killer has moments of kindness. This is not to say that visiting an old lady at a retirement home in any way makes up for killing someone. It is to say that nobody is irredeemably evil or completely pure-not even that haf Mother Theresa (hiss hiss, growl).

It is through conflict that we grow as people, from fighting the monthly bills, or debating to challenging projects at work, and yes, the struggle against our base instincts and the inherant evil that is part of the human condition (selfishness, pettiness etc. etc.). Given those traits are everywhere, I do not see why the 'evil' aspect would be carried over. Without the evils in the world, there is no point of rising above anything.

---edit----
BTW, love your avatar

[edit on 27-9-2009 by lordtyp0]

I think it must. maybe not all evil people come back as evil, but maybe there's more potential?

I'm more worried that if I reincarnate, I'll come back with a low IQ or as a really sick person. hopefully people come back alot like they were before

Originally posted by KSPigpen
reply to post by DevilJin

 

Wow, DJ. That puts a different spin on things for me. Thanks.

Goodness is something attained by practice. Evil is quite natural.

Ignoring the idea that good and evil are merely labels that we as humans ascribe to actions or ideals so that we categorize and attempt to have some control over them, this really makes a lot of sense and fits in with many religious teachings.

I know it is a Christian belief that we are born out of 'sin' and that we ALL are sinners...but it seems sometimes that through Christianity, the best we could ever hope for would be forgiveness....and strength to prevail in the constant onslaught of sin in our lives...

It does seem odd though to equate evil to ignorance. I mean, I can certainly rally behind that, but I think of some that have been considered genius by human standards that have either themselves perpetrated 'evil' acts, or through their actions have facilitated that evil in others...I think of the atom bomb, for example. It seems that would qualify as a product of genius, but yet it vaporized a couple hundred humans at once. That sounds pretty evil to me, until you I start rationalizing about it ending a war and saving lots of other lives and all that.

The issue I have, I suppose is that those labels can just be so open to individual interpretation. Vlad the Impaler was considered evil by many, but a 'hero' to a lot of his countrymen.

So, if I understand you correctly, it is ignorance through selfishness, or attributing value falsely to material possessions that constitutes evil in your mind and we are ALL born evil. Is that it in a nutshell?

Awesome input and I thoroughly appreciate it.

Well, you do not have to think of evil as the Christian concept "sin" because that would bring about a whole new world of complexities, one of which you have just spoken of: asking for forgiveness. It is almost as if you are born you are born guilty, thus the crime is your existence. However, a few theologians I know say that the idea of sin does not come until you are 13 or so, that is, until you are able to recognize that you are a sinner as children do not know what they are doing may be wrong.

For me, I think of evil in the philosophical perspective and it is true that we are evil. Our motives lead us to do things that are wrong such as if you were homeless and stole a loaf of bread. The motive is that you were hungry and have to survive. Now, is this wrong? Who knows because what is good and what is evil is defined by our perception of it but is dictated by what society believes and tells us to believe.

Take that same instance, you, a mother, homeless, stole a loaf of bread for your starving child. Now, people would say, "Hey, have a heart. It is a child." Thus, the act of theft is unimportant due to how society perceived this. But switch it back - you are a man, an ugly one at that and stole bread, people would be cruel to you and probably have you arrested. There are a lot of factors that goes into what determines evil.

You mention geniuses and evil. Remember Leopold and Loeb?
Both were highly educated men, very intelligent and thought they could commit the perfect crime. The ignorance therein lies in the belief of Nietzsche's superman theory and that they could apply it through murder. This is basically delusional beliefs that a highly intelligent mind would be able to outdo the police and commit the act without any knowing. The fact is that it does not take an intelligent mind to commit the act. Raskolnikov in Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment killed two women without much thought.

How about Hitler? Had Nazi Germany not betrayed the USSR by breaking their treaty and attacking, Nazi Germany would have possibly still be in existence today. And with the U.S. being isolationists at the time, it would have been possible to conquer most, if not all, of Europe as German military was unmatched. But Hitler got cocky and ruined it.

My point is that being genius comes with power as well. Power of the mind comes with increased knowledge but if that increased knowledge and power is not countered by humility and love, then it is purely ignorant. Knowledge is power but without love, it is stale and diluted of humanity.

Love, universal love, is the greatest enemy to Man because people are afraid of it. To love your neighbor, to love a stranger, to forgive and love that person you hate, to share without ulterior motives, to surrender the self in exchange for love is the greatest fear Man has because he must sacrifice himself for it. Ex. Gandhi, Lennon, JFK, Martin Luther King Jr. - any great person who tried to unite the people through love and the truth will die.

About the atom bomb - a professor of mine asked a very interesting question - how come we bombed Japan and not Germany? Germany had certainly the better military and was more deadly.

A larger question is who do you think gave the USSR secrets about the atom bomb and such? It wasn't the KGB finding out about it.

You are right about labels. Vlad was a hero. He was austere but that was what worked. On this I will go even further. What is good is subjective. Vlad killed thousands of Turks and to the outside world he is perceived as a monster but to countrymen he is good. What is he truly? There is no answer because good is subjective. We plague ourselves with the assumption that what we do in terms of good is good but the receiver of that good may think otherwise.

But I digress and say yes, evil is due to ignorance, which leads to selfishness which is the cultivation of the ego, which leads to the perverted understanding of what is truly good and what is truly evil. Intelligence without an understanding of morality, love, and virtue is not intelligence at all.

reply to post by KSPigpen

My enlightenment is not suffiecient to accept all of this yet, I'm afraid, so I will continue my quest. So, are you saying that evil is not just a human construct? That evil exists and has existed on other worlds and that evil beings reincarnate the same as those that are more compassionate, or 'well-behaved' for lack of a better descriptor? Would an evil being be subject to more reincarnations than one who was 'good'?

Humans are treated by the annanuki who are from the old empire and have enslaved this planet, for ages, as slaves, and they are reincarnated constantly, wiped of their memories. Many can no longer return to who they are in source. Many from the dark side, the annanuki, those responsible for systems and planets being destroyed, including Lryae, my home by source, where billions died, are reincarnated as agents of terror and to continually program the matrix from the inside. These arent demons, but they are evil psychos. The bloodlines on this planet are the long arm of the annanuki, and they have reincarnated, minus the soul wiping technology, into their own children and grandchildren since Sumerian days, and through the 12 bloodlines of Judah. This is also where the greys, especially the zetans do their abductions anyone with a bloodline, no matter how watered down, even though in source many of these abductees are lyraean or positive ETs.

Whether you believe or not doesnt change this, however, many are waking up due to the energies being sent in and to the ET presnece, their crop circles, and the efforts or missions of many starseeds, including musicians, and artists, to wake up. You can seek your own knowledge and truth within yourself through mediation, and setting the intent to wake up and become aware, enlightened, and to remember. You can pray to Prime Creator, and seek to wake up and become one with your HS. You can begin the ascension process. Listent to good music such as era, vangelis and gregorian to assist in waking up.

But the evil we're talking about isnt the religious kind.



[edit on 27-9-2009 by Unity_99]

Originally posted by Totalstranger
I think it must. maybe not all evil people come back as evil, but maybe there's more potential?

I'm more worried that if I reincarnate, I'll come back with a low IQ or as a really sick person. hopefully people come back alot like they were before

I tend to believe that when we die we are returned to the spiritual realm to reconcile what we've learned in this mortal incarnation.

It may sound repulsive to some, but I believe we exercise a degree of choice over how we incarnate. We can't always know how things will turn out, but choosing a life of adversity (to me, it seems) would allow us to learn much more quickly about love and hate, pain and comfort, etc.

I think love has no context without the experience of hate, and bliss has no context without the experience of pain.

I wholeheartedly agree that we must experience darkness in order to understand and embrace light.

reply to post by Unity_99


What about Antareans?

Several stories of our history recount the Antareans being pursued here and the struggle to return to their rightful place in the universe.