The dead end kids.

Originally posted by A52FWY
When I was in the age group being discussed I worked at an amusement park for buck an hour. I asked isn't that below minimum wage and they said not for agricultural workers. Times were rough and it was a job. Minimum wage was $2. This was a while going to college job. I also worked at a factory, but the machines there required skill to master, but the pay was better. After college I had to look for work and got in at a place, worked for nothing, and got a book keeping job and then eventually ran the finances with much better pay. But I really worked hard achieving the pay level. People skills are important to learn.

Part of the problem is minimum wage, it's going to create unemployment. If you have no work skills you may not be worth $7.25 an hour. Look at it from a market point of view. Employers are going to hire higher skilled labor first, and there is a surplus of that for the moment. There are economic reasons why the minimum wage creates unemployment for unskilled labor.

I don't think capitalism is the villain some make it out to be. No one is forcing products down your throat. It is voluntary. You can go through life very modestly and save money for a rainy day, that is if the value of it isn't inflated away. You can be very green in your choices and the market will respond.

I am starting to look at the FED as causing a lot of the boom and bust that affects us all. Congress and the President think it's a good idea to keep interest rates down. What happens, housing prices skyrocket to unprecedented levels. Rents climb to match higher housing prices. Poor people buy homes with inflated values that they can't afford because Congress has encouraged no down payment mortgages. This all collapses as unsustainable. What do they do? They make it worse by bailing out failed companies and banks. Who is going to pay for all this? The people who would hire people, they then hire less people to pay the higher taxes now required. Every policy they try makes it worse. Individuals make up the free market, and government policy is messing it up.

And if you want to implement socialism here, you're wasting your time.

Awesome post. The problem we are now seeing though is directly caused from trying to implement socialism, rather than true capitalism.

This thread hits very close to home. I recently graduated with my M.S. in chemical engineering and have gotten the shaft big time while searching for jobs. I'm actually very upset with myself. Every single student that graduated in my class, with their B.S in 08., found jobs and had at least 2 job offers every single one! But I being optimist that I am thought well hey if there are this many jobs for people with their b.s. think of how many offers i'll get after I get my masters, so far None. Every job that I have applied/interviewed for gets filled by someone with 3-5 years experience that has recently been laid off, it sucks hard. The really bad thing is that now most companies are eliminating entry level jobs and giving them to these recently-laid-off people. I suppose all is not lost though, I've forced myself to give into temptation and start looking for employment in the petroleum industry. I've got an interview this week and they clearly stated that they only want entry level - 1 year of experience, so heres hoping.

[edit on 27-9-2009 by nuker123]

Minimum wage translates as "guaranteed unemployment for teenagers"!

Why would an employer hire teenagers and pay them MINIMUM WAGE or $7.35 when any employer can hire experience and qualified employees between 20 to 30 yrs. old?

The mimimum wage requirement hits hardest during hard times like we now have. The Democrats passed the last $.70 hike just before the downturn. Not that it made a big difference overall. But it will be a very long time before the kids can get jobs again.

It would probably take a mimimum wage of about $3.50 or $4 to get employers interested at present economic levels.

As an employer, when you hire a kid you also need to hire someone to oversee them so they:

stay focused, learn the job (that will take weeks!), don't talk all the time to other employees, don't TEXT, don't take calls from the GF/BF, don't injure themselves, don't spend incredible time in the bathroom, learn to handle their emotions, grow up and on and on!

35 yr veteran working with MW kids. About 1 in 10 works out.

My advise for the kid is just stay in school, join the military, work for the folks or do something till much older and more qualified.

Obama is probably right about the community service thing. There will be nothing else to do in an Obama economy anyway. Just go out and work for free and live off the folks as long as you can. Eventually you may luck out and get a (relatively high paying) minimum wage job! That's all Obama has for you, unfortunately!

Heres more from Obama: Obama proposes longer school day

[edit on 27/9/09 by plumranch]

I have to agree from what i've seen that there are a lot of lazy people out there. I don't know why it's that way, and I don't know if it's the main issue.

I'm in that age group, and i'm currently unemployed. Thankfully I have a skill and I just need to realize I can't be picky.

I went to Lincoln Tech to learn how to fix cars. First off I wouldn't recommend that school to anyone, and for good reason. There was hardly any hands on training, that's the total truth. There were a couple good classes, but most was theory. I even had one teacher that was completely useless and gave us the answers on tests. Supposedly their program is better now, but I don't know. I taught myself by working on my own vehicle. I know I should have went to another school, but I didn't. I wasn't paying for it and my parents didn't want to hear it. They probably expected me to drop out so I stayed in. I was also rushed into choosing a school and career field.
Anyway, I have worked for a number of different independently owned repair shops, and one chain. I quit almost every job. I refuse to work for scumbags that will rip off everyone. I also don't mind being yelled at, but if you are going to yell at me constantly over small thing then go f yourself.
Maybe someone will read this and think twice before they seek an education there?
Another thing that ruined it for everyone sometimes was the students. They didn't take their education seriously, it was like high school for them. A number of people there were from NYC and they were probably going for free also.

I want to go back to school to be an engineer, but I will wait to see how things pan out with our country. I should've went back sooner, but I didn't. I could've also had my own house by now if I got into a dealership when I graduated, but I don't. Shoulda, woulda, coulda
I guess I have lost a lot of self respect to say the least, it sucks. At least i'm not completely brainwashed and reliant on the MSM for my news. I guess things could be worse.



I think it would be a wonderful thing to see us go back to nature. I'm glad to see some people my age agreeing with me on that point. I think it would take a miracle for this to happen. I'd be happy living in a cabin in the woods growing my own plants and hunting. I think I read somewhere that some people believe in 2012 an energy that existed here sometime ago will return and we will go back to nature. I never researched it at all, but if that is so I hope to live to see the day.
Good luck to everyone

Originally posted by whistler16
reply to post by whistler16

 

I dont wnat anyone to get the impression that I think everyone without a job is lazy etc. I obviously know that is not always the case. But yes, I worked for 5 years for a job that I absolutely hated, same crap everyday, my boss was the biggest dick on the planet, but I kept my mouth shut and did what I was told, because I knew that I was just paying my dues.

there is a lot of information you can learn even at the most menial jobs.

eg:

you stock boxes at walmart-

you come in, put boxes on shelves day after day. is that all you are doing while you are at work? How do they handle those boxes in regards to how they are inventoried, is there a better way to do it? How can the boxes be arranged in the warehouse for more efficient movement? What are your direct supervisors responsibilities, can you social engineer enough information out of them so that you can plead your case to the higher ups that you should have his jobs because you can do it much better?

My wife did just that in another retail store. She went from part time to secondary store manager in five years. Then the economy turned. They cut all pay by 5%, cut employer contributions to all benefit plans including health insurance, and froze all raises. Then they fired over 1/3 of their senior management team and demoted 3/4 of their full timers to part time.

She worked her way up from the bottom and still got roughed up. We are just happy she still has a job.

Things don't work like they use to. Incompetence isn't punished and striving for excelence is rarely rewarded. I can say from first hand experience, some of the companies that went belly up, did so because they didn't follow the model you talked about. A company will hire a guy willing to work for $7.25 and a complete idiot over a guy that wants $9.00 and has supervisory experience. They promote managers that exceed personal sales marks even if they have customer complaints. I've seen people promoted that couldn't even properly access the inventory control logs. They were promoted for reaching a sales goal and taking the job for $2,400 less than the other canidate.

Things have changed.

reply to post by whistler16


I agree, they try to implement socialist policies, and then wonder why they don't work. Capital that could have been creating jobs instead was directed to buying overpriced houses that no one can now afford. Did government policy really help anyone get a reasonably priced house?

Originally posted by whistler16
reply to post by traphouse

 

Do you post on any of the poker forums? I agree with the poker thing, but it takes a special breed to grind it out for a living

Yeah, I post on a site called twoplustwo.

I thought the same thing about you having to be gifted to play the game. I will tell you right now that's a complete myth.

When I decided i wanted to learn how to play I just signed up on a site and sat down until I learned the basics. As soon as I got a good understanding of the basics, I moved on to challenging myself in free tournaments. I gained even more of an understanding by watching other players at the table (like how they play their hands). After gaining more knowledge and challenging myself in small tourneys, I began playing for real money (not playing big money, just getting the feel of it playing at the penny tables. The skill level at the penny levels isn't great obviously, but it is a step from the free games and you will learn a lot from them as a great deal of your skills will improve on those tables. After I was consistently able to beat the penny tables on a regular basis, I felt comfortable to move up to bigger tables like $1/$2 bets. That may seem like a lot, but believe me, if you have taken the time to fully understand the game and improve your skills, you WILL see a profit guaranteed. I will tell you a secret. The majority of people who play poker for real money only do so because they see the World Series of Poker on t.v. and see $9,000,000 dollars sitting on a table thinking that they could win big money like that, so they learn some of the basics not taking the time to build up any skill/experience and in the process making a deposit for a lot of money and play at the tables. That is SUICIDE. But it makes ME a happy person, because there's nothing better than catching a player who in the poker world is called a "fish" who you can totally dominate with the knowledge you have gained and in the process take his money. "fish" are the bread and butter of the poker world and it has been like that since poker has been invented and there's no sign of them slowing down, especially in this economy. They make up a good percentage of why I am seeing such a nice profit.

So basically all of that stuff about you having to be some kind of genius to win money off of poker is bull #. The people you see on t.v. had to learn to. They put their pants on one leg at a time just like everyone else. It is actually a very simple game. It's just that extra effort you have to put into it to build up your experience and skill that sets you apart from the average player.

If you take the time to understand the game and it's ways you WILL be rewarded.




[edit on 27-9-2009 by traphouse]

"Things don't work like they use to. Incompetence isn't punished and striving for excelence is rarely rewarded. I can say from first hand experience, some of the companies that went belly up, did so because they didn't follow the model you talked about. A company will hire a guy willing to work for $7.25 and a complete idiot over a guy that wants $9.00 and has supervisory experience. They promote managers that exceed personal sales marks even if they have customer complaints. I've seen people promoted that couldn't even properly access the inventory control logs. They were promoted for reaching a sales goal and taking the job for $2,400 less than the other canidate."



From what I understand, this is always how it has been since time immemorial. Not to be a dick but "they promote people that exceed personal sales marks even if they have customer complaints"


than you should be striving to exceed your sales mark. and this should be your only goal in this particular job. They took the job for 2400$ less ? so what? take the job for 2500$ less. You do what you have to do to win, yes, it isnt always pleasant to crush your opposition, but it is dog eat dog out there, and only the fit survive. Ill take a bartender who has X% of complaints from customers but consistently ring in way higher than their peers, as long as x% isnt costing me long term business (which it rarely does)



IMO you either completely fall off the grid, go completely self sustaining, and do your own thing, this is noble, or you read up on your Machiavelli and screw the people that are looking to screw you. The real trick is to be so good at it, that the people you are screwing still want to be your best friend while you are doing it.

If our unemployed youth have no employment and nothing to do to get out on their own, that could be a major problem.

However they may find one "golden" opportunity. "Golden" being subjective to whose side you are really on or if you are awake or not. That opportunity would be enlistment into the military. Oh TPTB will spice recruitment up with "bribes(perks)" to make it look more enticing.

When this happens the NWO and the police state will be on the fast track.

reply to post by traphouse


Im also on 2p2. I will suggest though, that depending on what limits you are playing that you start reading, and studying the theory. I agree you can grind out 3k with minimal talent, or studying, by learning the basic odds, playing tight, and playing the lower limits, but once you get up to a certain point, game theory, etc come into play.


there are two ways to play for a living (I did for about 4 years when the poker boom was just hitting and the games were SUPER soft) grind it out playing 12 tables of 50NL and be a robot, which will net a decent clip, or really immerse yourself in the good books on the subject, study the posts and play of hands on 2p2 etc. I did both, playing like a robot is mind numbing though, but when I just want to rack up some gaurnteed profit, while being able to zone out a little bit it was nice

[edit on 28-9-2009 by whistler16]

reply to post by whistler16


Heh, you know more then I thought. Do you still play?

I put all of my focus into 3 tables at a time.

My strategy is: Play until I hit a certain amount for the day and take 20% of that amount and play in satellite tourneys.


I've had a few strategies in the past, but I get the best results with this one.

Whenever I make negative generational comments I try to exclude ATS posters because most young ATS posters are NOT representative of their generation, IMHO. People who post here generally like reading and writing and have attention spans, which in and of itself makes them smarter than average, whatever their age.

That said, I feel really sorry for the rising generation. They spent their youth and teens at the height of the bubble madness, where anything seemed possible if you just clicked your heels and quoted "The Secret," money was growing on trees, and everyone was a special little snowflake in one way or another. They are going to have to move rapidly from that utterly artificial millieu into another, altogether darker world where none of these things are true and competition will be swift, savage, and global in scope. People starting out today have my full sympathy.

Originally posted by threekings
I think we may be missing additional joblessness by not accounting for how many people who are walking into retirement and taking the position they had in the company with them.

Yes the unemployment numbers are total BS.

You're correct to say that as people leave for retirement or as they are let go for cost saving measures, the job just disappears. Many will never come back.

Companies are using this down-turn to steam-line and become super lean at the bottom of the corporate structure. They are running on air essentially. It's couched in the terms of "sustainable growth". What that really translates to is keeping all the revenue at the top of the corporate structure.

My own company has gutted all non-management full-time positions and any full-timer who leaves for any reason is not replaced with a full-timer unless they are considered upper-level management. Even those positions have been consolidated to the greatest possible degree.

For those who are left, there are zero down-stream expenditures - no supplies, no facilities up-keep, no training, no hiring, no benefits, no perks, no job security, no merit increases, no appreciation.

[edit on 28/9/2009 by kosmicjack]

reply to post by grayhawkz1
Well said grayhawkz1, I feel the same and am in that age group. I will not be looking to go back to work (slave away) just to support the system I don't belive in. Land ownership is wrong. People should go live on a piece of land and fend for themselves. I would sure be up for that!

Nobody seems very organised so nothing ever happens and unless you buy the land somebody will probably want to come and kick you off. Eventually the police will come and if you shoot at them they will bring more and more cops then it turns into a numbers game where they will most likely have you out gunned and out numbered. So the question is how do you live free??

There was a a place on Vancover Island where people attempted to create a community of their own on a far unpopulated side of a lake. Well eventually the police came and kicked them all off the land.

I recently heard about some tenters that were camping/living on a mountain side. The police ended up showing up while they were not there and confiscated their tents etc. The police left a note that said somthing like "if you want your stuff back come and collect your fine".

Up here in Canada I hear you can still homestead land but the problem is that the winters where you can homestead are very cold so if your growing your own food life would pobably be pretty hard. So I'm pretty much out of ideas on how to live free of the system..

I work at a theater and I can tell you for at fact these "dead end kids."are a minority the kids at my job bust their asses,man and yes we have a few who are clearly pampered and would rather text or talk on their phones they are not representative of the majority kids I know.



PS:I will admit as parents Generation X sucks.

[edit on 013030p://1426 by mike dangerously]

One thing that is really different in this economy that makes a HUGE difference in getting jobs...

ONLINE APPLICATIONS.

What this has done is taken the personal touch out of getting a job. An employer doesn't have to face a job seeker... just wait for a stack of applications and pick the best ones...

In the 'old days' if you were serious about wanting work, you pounded the pavement and knocked on doors... you presented yourself and could get a job purely on your dedication to WANT to work...

Now most places won't even take an application unless its online... they even set up hiring terminals in the stores...

The effect is you don't even get a chance to face an employer to show him/her your enthusiasm and willingness to do what it takes... you just toss a paper into the hat and hope your qualifications are good enough to even get noticed


The cell phone has become a curse as well... with the texting and taking calls.

Even in my profession it is an issue especially when two people are up on ladders holding something heavy and one needs to answer that BF/GF call. It got so bad my company actually got rid of the company phones and went back to using a runner... It is dangerous in our work and will get you fired from a very decent paying job...


On the Illegal issue... the work I do is union regulated... but when the halls are exhausted the big contractors are allowed to bring in temps... so two of the biggest bought their own temp agency... While they still need the skilled people to do the main setup, some jobs do not need as much skill like laying out aisle carpets and moving empty boxes and hanging drape..

So they put out a call to exhaust the hall on a big show, then bring in an army of temps... people with no English and many illegal and the effect is that instead of us regulars getting three days work on a big setup we now get one...

Anyone who thinks this isn't a problem is playing ostrich.

Another issue that is very noticeable is that a certain ethnic group that gets into the fast food restaurants has a tendency to hire their own kind to the point that English is not even the spoken language in the store kitchens and often the cashier cannot understand your order...

This will get a lot worse before it gets better

Originally posted by zorgon
One thing that is really different in this economy that makes a HUGE difference in getting jobs...

ONLINE APPLICATIONS.

Things are so bad right now here's how it goes. Burger King gets one cash register opening and they put up an online ad. They get 4,652 applications in their email "inbox," all of which they delete. They get 549 paper applications, 90% of which they randomly toss in the trash. They then go through the 50 or so remaining paper-and-stamp apps and either choose the people with the Ivy League educations to come in for a face-to-face, or they simply call up their cousin and ask if his daughter is still looking for a job because one just opened up.

s&f. Iv been trying to get a "real" job since I was 14 and nobody will hire me despite my willingness to do whatever is available. I'm now 19 and can't even get a minimum wage job at Wal Mart or even McDonalds for that matter. Laziness has nothing to do with it, the jobs do not exist. So you pompous swine's that keep saying that can screw yourselves.

I'm not sure what the hell I'm going to do but at least I know I'm not the only one...

For years i worked construction and you would be surprised at how many high school grads did not even know how to read a tape measure or other measuring tools.
Or how many were lost because the batteries in there calculators went dead when they were trying to find the offset for bending conduit.

Mostly i blame the school system for dropping shop training for those students that would never work in a office environment.

There are a number of people that are physiologically unsuited for work in a office or as a white collar worker.
This is one reason that illegals are moving into blue collar jobs because they are better trained in mexico and other countries school systems for this type jobs.

Originally posted by thaknobodi
No one i'm friends with is unemployed, including me... 'n we all fall into that age group. Strange, huh? Go $10+ jobs for all!

Some areas of the country are not as impacted as others.

Also alot of ppl in this group are not working of their own choice.

Some are in college, some are finding it easier to mooch off mom
and dad than work.

Also if you dress very wild or weird you will not get hired.

But the unemployment situation is bad for all ppl right now
with the U6 unemployment rate busting 21% nationwide.