Is There a Masonic Claim to Temple Mount?

Originally posted by emsed1
Man, I love these threads where folks who aren't masons tell us masons what it all means.

It really is the height of arrogance.

Originally posted by KSigMason

Originally posted by emsed1
Man, I love these threads where folks who aren't masons tell us masons what it all means.

It really is the height of arrogance.

Hi to both!
It is not Arrogance at all!

So if a Freemason got Alzeimers(sp?)and started to say things that shouldn't be shared with non masons,, is it still valid as what he says?
All this Freemasonry stuff began with the freemasons themselves...one can only speak if one has seen or heard something,one cannot simply make up stuff out of the blue?
If it is just one person making up stuff, then it could be called crazy, but when there is more then one and many more people all making claims as to what Freemasonry stands for,then should it not be considered as having some truth in it?
Just thought I would share...

ICXC NIKA
helen

reply to post by helen670


This is part of the misunderstanding of Freemasonry. Everything that is 'secret' or 'private' is out there on the web.

I won't tell you where to find it, I will only say that there is absolutely nothing 'secret' about Freemasonry in the Information Age.

The need for secrecy was born in a time when many esoteric societies went underground to avoid being roasted alive by the church, or assassinated by the likes of Hitler.

Nowadays the purpose of an oath or obligation is for a man to prove to himself that he is trustworthy and that he can be true to his word. It is sort of a personal test that demonstrates to a man that if he can keep some silly passwords and handshakes to himself, then he can be trusted to keep anything a brother tells him in confidence.

In modern times nobody ACTUALLY believes that a Freemason who violates his oath will be murdered. If a Freemason commits a felony, then we are not obligated to defend him.

The 'secret' that drives people crazy is something that cannot be spoken or written. It can't be transmitted through human language. It is something that is revealed when one considers the allegorical lessons in Freemasonry.

This secret is also revealed and experienced through any number of other methods and teachings, including Christianity.

Luke 8:17

For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary explains it thusly:

There are many very needful and excellent rules and cautions for hearing the word, in the parable of the sower, and the application of it. Happy are we, and for ever indebted to free grace, if the same thing that is a parable to others, with which they are only amused, is a plain truth to us, by which we are taught and governed. We ought to take heed of the things that will hinder our profiting by the word we hear; to take heed lest we hear carelessly and slightly, lest we entertain prejudices against the word we hear; and to take heed to our spirits after we have heard the word, lest we lose what we have gained. The gifts we have, will be continued to us or not, as we use them for the glory of God, and the good of our brethren. Nor is it enough not to hold the truth in unrighteousness; we should desire to hold forth the word of life, and to shine, giving light to all around. Great encouragement is given to those who prove themselves faithful hearers of the word, by being doers of the work. Christ owns them as his relations.

He also does a good job of explaining the Parable of the Sower and the Soils in Mark 4:22

Those who are lighted as candles, should set themselves on a candlestick; that is, should improve all opportunities of doing good, as those that were made for the glory of God, and the service of the communities they are members of; we are not born for ourselves.

The lessons of Freemasonry (and Judaism, Christianity, Islam) parallel this teaching:

"The Builders" by Joseph Fort Newton:

What, then, is the Secret Doctrine, of which this seer-like scholar has written with so many improvisations of eloquence and emphasis, and of which each of us is in quest? What, indeed, but that which all the world is seeking—knowledge of Him whom to know aright is the fulfillment of every human need: the kinship of the soul with God; the life of purity, honor, and piety demanded by that high heredity; the unity and fellowship of the race in duty and destiny; and the faith that the soul is deathless as God its Father is deathless! Now to accept this faith as a mere philosophy is one thing, but to realize it as an experience of the innermost heart is another and a deeper thing.

So, I guess I am saying that since the 'secret' can't really be told, then an old man with Alzheimer's probably couldn't reveal it.

reply to post by helen670

For a non-member to presume they know more than a member is arrogance.

In that scenario you couldn't really rely on his information as he is mentally ill. I'm not saying he is lying or not giving out secrets, but he may give instead of "A, B, C, D, E, F....X, Y, Z" you may get "A, F, P, T, L, C, X, R, etc". You wouldn't get the full story.

Plenty of people have just made up stuff either out of envy or discord. Religious zealots make up stuff so they can chastize them. One person makes something up and it gets passed on and soon enough many people have heard it, and it has been transformed and mutated.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by helen670

 

For a non-member to presume they know more than a member is arrogance.

In that scenario you couldn't really rely on his information as he is mentally ill. I'm not saying he is lying or not giving out secrets, but he may give instead of "A, B, C, D, E, F....X, Y, Z" you may get "A, F, P, T, L, C, X, R, etc". You wouldn't get the full story.

Plenty of people have just made up stuff either out of envy or discord. Religious zealots make up stuff so they can chastize them. One person makes something up and it gets passed on and soon enough many people have heard it, and it has been transformed and mutated.

Hi KSig/
Of course you could not solely rely on what one man has said with memory loss,but when there are many more who made similar claims?
Should you dismiss it all together?
Eg/
What about the people who have said they have seen alien beings or U.F.O's in the skies?
Are they nut cases?
I mean, they did see something that which cannot be explained,does this mean that there are alien beings from outer space visiting?
Could it be something else other then Aliens from outer space?
People ask questions and gather information to come to a conclusion that satisfies...and then again it may not be what one first thought.
The Christian church does not allow 'hidden secrets' to enter the church,(people-community)even though those in place(priests) may keep secrets amongsts themselves,the Word of Jesus Christ is that no secrets shall be kept from one another.
What the priests do is their own foolish downfall and they are not exempt from Judgment Day,they too will answer to the final Day of judgment!
But I do agree with your statement...

Plenty of people have just made up stuff either out of envy or discord. Religious zealots make up stuff so they can chastize them. One person makes something up and it gets passed on and soon enough many people have heard it, and it has been transformed and mutated

This type of thing will keep on happening,no matter what!


ICXC NIKA
helen

Originally posted by helen670

What about the people who have said they have seen alien beings or U.F.O's in the skies?
Are they nut cases?

Some are, some are not.

Could it be something else other then Aliens from outer space?

Yes.

People ask questions and gather information to come to a conclusion that satisfies...and then again it may not be what one first thought.
The Christian church does not allow 'hidden secrets' to enter the church,(people-community)even though those in place(priests) may keep secrets amongsts themselves,the Word of Jesus Christ is that no secrets shall be kept from one another.

That isn't exactly correct. Jesus told his disciples not to cast their pearls before swine. He also told them that he spoke to the masses "in parable", while he spoke to "them" (his own disciples or initiates) "openly".

reply to post by emsed1


reply to post by emsed1


Hi emsed/

There is so much on the internett nowdays that you cannot tell truth from untruth.
Basically you can't rely on the net to give you an honest question because there is so much rubbish out there that you come to the conclusion that everyone is mad out there!
This does mean that we must dismiss all that is out there!

The belief in a God comes down to faith!
Yes?
So of-course language and written work cannot explain the true meaning of faith.
So, you have said that Freemasonry cannot really be explained because....

The 'secret' that drives people crazy is something that cannot be spoken or written. It can't be transmitted through human language. It is something that is revealed when one considers the allegorical lessons in Freemasonry.
This secret is also revealed and experienced through any number of other methods and teachings, including Christianity.

What I find difficult to understand is that why is Freemasonry not considered a religious system(said by many freemasons) if it holds onto as much as a religious system does?
What is it about Freemasonry that brings all people of various faiths to teach or follow a 'hidden secret' that is only revealed in hidden meanings?
Christianity has no such 'hidden meanings'?
Is it the higher you step up in the ladder of freemasonry that one gets to know the 'hidden secret' of which freemasonry stands for?
Is it then that one has fully understood what the secret is?
I guess this is why so many people are confused at what freemasonry really is.
It has people of various faiths in one group, that teach 'hidden secrets'...would it not seem strange to someone who is on the outside,wanting to look in?
All,well,almost all human beings are curious creatures,wanting knowledge and all may seem a good thing at first,but can they handle the truth?
And what is the truth?
God only knows!



ICXC NIKA
helen

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by helen670

What about the people who have said they have seen alien beings or U.F.O's in the skies?
Are they nut cases?

Some are, some are not.

Could it be something else other then Aliens from outer space?

Yes.

People ask questions and gather information to come to a conclusion that satisfies...and then again it may not be what one first thought.
The Christian church does not allow 'hidden secrets' to enter the church,(people-community)even though those in place(priests) may keep secrets amongsts themselves,the Word of Jesus Christ is that no secrets shall be kept from one another.

That isn't exactly correct. Jesus told his disciples not to cast their pearls before swine. He also told them that he spoke to the masses "in parable", while he spoke to "them" (his own disciples or initiates) "openly".

Hi M.L/
Yes, some are nuts and some are not...who are we to judge?
We only each know of our own experiences!
true?
Of-course there are many unexplained phenomenons that cannot yet be explained by science,but they do exist!
Casting pearls before swine is exactly what freemasonry is doing!
Are not various faiths initiated into freemasonry?
Jesus Christ spoke in parables and openly to all....He then explained what they meant by the teachings/meanings they gave out.
There are no 'hidden secrets' in Jesus Christ's teachings....His followers did that which they were taught by Christ and this is how Christianity came about,not just for a group of people,but for all who wish to follow that same path.

ICXC NIKA
helen

reply to post by helen670


I think the answer is that Freemasonry does not adhere to any religion, theology or dogma. Each man can arrive at his or her interpretation without being constrained by rules about what 'name' God has or whom the messiah or prophet of their religion is.

Once you remove all the rules and allow people to draw their own conclusions, they often arrive at the same ones alluded to by most religions, IE we ought to love one another, and humans possess a spirit that survives death.

So I would say Freemasonry is a system of morality, open to interpretation, rather than a religion.

Originally posted by helen670

Hi M.L/
Yes, some are nuts and some are not...who are we to judge?
We only each know of our own experiences!
true?

I think so, yes.

Casting pearls before swine is exactly what freemasonry is doing!

How so?

Are not various faiths initiated into freemasonry?

No. "Faiths" are not interested into Freemasonry, men who meet the qualifications are.

There are no 'hidden secrets' in Jesus Christ's teachings

I strongly disagree.

reply to post by helen670

How many have made this claim? How many of them were actually Masons? There's been several times Conspiracy Theorists claim someone is a Mason, but really isn't.