The Cigarette Taxes

reply to post by savageheart


Wow... way to suck the joy right out of the room, Savageheart.

I think that, in a way, anecdotes like that are almost a cheap shot. I mean, I'd assume that every ER shift worker could tell an equally horrifying, heart wrenching story about a car accident victim, suicide attempt patient, any type of cancer patient (smoking isn't the only way to get lung cancer. The old school coal miners that died from black lung all went through horrific pain and suffering and many of them never touched a cigarette.) So to play Devil's advocate here, that story was intended to illicit a gut reaction more than to actually provide any example of death from smoking being any worse than any other suffering tragic death.

i think i have better odds of being hit by a car then becoming bedridden in a hospital choking on my own blood. life has risks, i risk lung cancer by smoking. i risk death by crossing the street. its all about how yo look at things and making your own decisions

reply to post by burdman30ott6


Didn't mean to suck the "Air out of the sails," heh......I posted earlier that I indeed smoke. Ijust wished that the story had made a bigger impact on me than it did. I remember after reading it, I went "DAM! I need a cig after reading that!"

And I guess in a way, it shows just how powerful this addiction is, to read something like that and continue on doing it.

BTW, my previous post here also dealt with what I think the taxes should go to.........your opinions are most appreciated.

reply to post by Doc Tesla


I think I would have to question just how many times a day you are in front of a moving vehicle......JK, I know what you mean though.

it IS a conspiracy honestly, why do you think the FDA just stepped in to "regulate" the nicotien*SP* (ATS could use a spell check) they lowered the amount of nicotein in a cigarette, making people smoke MORE, they didn't remove any other additives just lowered the addictive properties. H.R. 1256 is just another scam to ban "flavored pre-rolled cigarettes" with the exception of... if you were guessing you guessed right its MENTHOL!!! why? Menthol is a HUGE seller. I used to enjoy cloves myself, back in 2004-5 here in Florida they were already like 5-6 bucks a pack. I'm just glad they didn't outlaw all flavored tobacco so i can still get my White owl Peaches and Grapes, just for the cigar wrap of course

Originally posted by savageheart
BTW, my previous post here also dealt with what I think the taxes should go to.........your opinions are most appreciated.

Well, personally I don't believe the product should be taxed any differently than any other consumer good. I'm 100% opposed to lopsided "sin" taxes.

However, assuming that lopsidedness won't change anytime soon, I think the taxes claimed on sales of tobacco should go into the education system. I say that purely because, by and large, well educated young people have a lower rate of smoking than do those in the lower spectrum of education. If you really want to curb smoking, do it through education, not through penalization via crippling taxes. (I'd also suggest some of that cigarette money be filtered (pun intended) into extracirricular activity funding. I think fewer student athletes take up smoking and I also think alot of people start smoking as much out of plain old boredom as anything else. Give them things to do in the first place and maybe they'll just say "no.")

reply to post by burdman30ott6


I agree, however, the addicted need attention as well. As the saying goes, "you can't help anyone else until you can help yourself." And I do believe that that should be somewhat of a priority with this addiction if they wish to continue on the path taken. I for one am against taxation as it stands. I am self employed and end up giving the government 35%, if not more, in taxes. However, that is for another thread.

Eye for an eye comes to mind in regard to the addiction of cigarettes.



[edit on 25-9-2009 by savageheart]

I don't believe for one second that the government is so concerned about our health that they feel it necessary to put such outrageous taxes on cigarettes. It's just the best thing they could come up with to shore up support for the taxes.

The only reason they put such an outrageous tax on these cigarettes, IMHO, is because they know that they are so addictive they know people will pay just about anything for them and they can make a butt load of money off taxing the hell out of them.

I find it to be more than a coincidence that the biggest tax hike on cigarettes has occurred while our economy is slowly seeping down the tubes.

I have always said this and many will think that I am crazy, but if the government is going to tax tobacco, then I think it fair that they tax other things. If Obama is going to put on a "Sin" tax, then he needs to include the following: Alcohol, coffee, junk food, fast food, cell phones and other things that people do that are a luxery. All this is going to do is set up a black market for those items.

honestly, if there was a black market for the items, you could get them CHEAPER by default, that's the whole thing about the black market. This is a legal way to get every nickle they can outta you, and when THEY set up the black market, and bust people one by one for using it, and "circumventing taxes" penalties are going to be similar to what currently is imposed for people who don't file income taxes only harsher.

OK, everyone just knew I had to weigh in on this....

From the top:
reply to post by akkad

Day 4 of my attempt to give up. I wasn't even thinking about cigarettes.

Then I saw your thread and I felt like caving in and having a smoke.

Oh, a perfect example of the heart of the problem. If this isn't clearly pro-punishment for those who don't want to be like everyone else and conform to the cookie-cutter image society seems to prefer today, then I don;t know what is.

Don't try to charge me for your lack of willpower. That's just plain wrong.

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reply to post by purehughness

Maybe cigarettes are taxed so high because of the huge revenues that tobacco companies rake in..

I dunno why anyone is still concerned about tobacco companies profits. They now receive a tiny fraction of the cost of their product, and they actually produce something people want to buy. The government gets the lion's share, and produces nothing!

Me, probably won't quit them, I'll just grow my own baccy!! Muhahaha!

Same here, now if I can figure out the right blending.... help on this subject is appreciated!

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reply to post by tothetenthpower

You are inhaling poison, and not cheap poison either. It's a luxury tax, and I for one welcome it. If it helps me quit by refusing to pay high prices, that's even better.

I could agree if we were talking about soda or diapers, but Cigarettes? Come on now, we all know they are horrible for us and we know that we should all quit.

More lack of willpower. Why in the world would anyone try to quit if they don't want to quit? If you really want to quit, you will quit. There's no need to punish everyone to make your quitting easier!

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reply to post by burdman30ott6

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

I'm not gonna quote from that post, because I would wind up just reposting the whole thing!

THANK YOU!

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reply to post by tothetenthpower

I can see your point, however, it's a bit much to classify it as a medical need, since so many different alternatives exist to smoking, including not smoking.

Isn't that like saying there's a safer alternative to Valium... not using Valium?

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reply to post by fraterormus

There are actually a lot of health benefits to smoking Tobacco, even though all we hear about are the negative health benefits.

Nice list!

Now consider this: TPTB drink water too. If 99% of all the water in the country is fluoridated, that means they can't realistically avoid fluoride altogether. Thus, cigarettes (and cigars) aren't illegal, they are just too expensive for anyone not in a position of power. But do you really think the new tax is going to stop Obama from having a smoke if he wants one? No!

Somewhere right now, there is a back room full of power brokers happily puffing away on a smoke (probably a few of those illegal but glorious Cuban cigars). They are probably laughing about how many people are now either deathly afraid that a whiff of tobacco smoke will kill them or can't afford to smoke.

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reply to post by burdman30ott6

*Truth*

(always wanted to use that in a pro-tobacco sense after having to watch all those annoying TV spots that end with *Truth*)

I see I'm not alone in my opinion of those anti-informative bits...

Thank you for the info on worming dogs! I will have to try that next time!

Also, for insect stings and bites, i typically make a compress out of tobacco and vinegar. It stops the stinging and itching and makes then at least seem to heal much faster.

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reply to post by sdcigarpig

All this is going to do is set up a black market for those items.

I know for a fact that cigarette loads are already one of the highest-risk truck loads you can haul, much more so that alcohol. A typical tobacco load includes requirements such as where you csn park, inability to unhook from the load under any circumstances (including breakdowns, where you have to wait on the side of the road until another truck arrives to repower the load), no deviation from pre-determined routing (right up there with DoD loads on this requirement), and you even have to call in to dispatch for any stop whatsoever, even if it's a pit stop to take a leak.

It's already getting rough, and it's just going to get worse.

TheRedneck

I think we should all take a s***** LOAD of cigarettes down to the nearest harbour and dump them in!!!!! It worked for the Bostener's during the tea party... Stop smoking everyone and then see how fast the prices drop, this is saying a lot for me as I would probably go into 5th degree mental meltdown if I did quit, but how far are we gonna let them take this??? We keep paying and they'll just keep overtaxing it. I also agree with the OP about Booze...lots more booze hounds and worse yet, they go out on our roads and KILL INNOCENT BYSTANDERS, unfortunately there far less likely to kill them selves than an innocent, yet we let those BOOZEHOUNDS off scott free most of the time!!!! I know a drunk driver killed my friends' wonderful fourteen year old daughter and this was her third offense, deplorable AMERICA absolutely deplorable!!!!

[edit on 25-9-2009 by ldyserenity]

[edit on 25-9-2009 by ldyserenity]

I am a smoker and the new taxes imposed are really putting a strain on my wallet, I havn't been able to quit on my own. I have tried patches, gum, and commit to no avail. My doctor gave me a script for chantex but it will cost $150 a month after my insurance. And now the great state has required all cigs sold after Jan 1 2010 be consitered "fire safe" meaning the tobacco companies will put more chemicals in the ciggs that make them snuff out if the smoker doesnt take a drag for a few mins i mean wtf fire retardant ciggs?


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reply to post by Doc Tesla


The answer for a UK citizen such as myself is pretty easy. We have a socialised health system, smoking is bad for you no matter how little or much you do it and therefore you will probably end up using more healthcare, the taxes pay for it. This argument cannot be applied to alcohol, junk food, sky diving etc because these activities and foods are perfectly safe in moderation.

In a private system such as the USA has i see no good reason as to why they are taxed so highly.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


the same argument can be made for smoking. people who only smoke when they are stressed out do it in moderation and it helps them calm down. i have several friends like that.

and everything in excess is bad. and people can just as easily be addicted to junk foods and fast foods. yet i dont see them being taxed for it.

and i honestly think fast food kills more people then cigarettes. no one just pays attention to it because McDonald is socially acceptable while smoking in front of the wrong people will get you labeled as a sinner and an idiot.

Governments couldn't care less about the health of their people.

They are only about money.

"Let's tax everything, especially things people need or are addicted to - what about petrol, booze and smoking?"

"Hear, hear!"

"The Bill is passed."

I've tried quitting multiple times in the past week or so. But my girlfriend smokes and I get around her and she starts to smoke and I start craving one, I'm good and don't crave until shes smoking next to me.
Beginning to think It's either give up ciggarettes or give her up and she puts up with all my tinfoil nonsense more than anyone should be able to, so i might just give in and pick up smokin again cause she refuses to stop.

WE're pretty lucky though. Marlboro Red 72's are only $3.00 a pack at Speedway round here. Plus camel keeps sending me 4 or 5 coupons every week for $1.50 off a pack.

SMokers wanting to save a buck can sign up at both companys websites for mailers and coupons. Just trying to help out fellow smokers.

But these darn ciggarette taxes still are a pain in the rear end. whether it be taxes on ciggs or sodas or energy, it all boils down to one thing.
More taxation, less representation. same thing that sparked the revolutionary war. Come on now guys remember, the bankers that run the country have to steal our money, just now instead of interest on loans and whatnot, its in the form of bailouts. thats what the taxes are paying for.


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Reply to post by YEAHHA

and in KY, all our ciggs are already "fire safe" I can promise, when you make the transition you will hate it, it leaves a weird after taste and when they go out and you relight them, it's horrible.

The fire safe part is actually 2 really thin bands of aluminum in the paper.

Yeah it wont burn your house down, but we all know how bad aluminum is for you.


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Originally posted by Doc Tesla
the same argument can be made for smoking. people who only smoke when they are stressed out do it in moderation and it helps them calm down. i have several friends like that.

Erm no it's not the same. Cigarrettes, even used moderately are very bad for your health and increase your chances of lung cancer amongst other things. So again no, it cannot possibly be applied to cigarettes.

Originally posted by Doc Tesla
and everything in excess is bad. and people can just as easily be addicted to junk foods and fast foods. yet i dont see them being taxed for it.

Again you miss the point. Junk food and alcohol are used by millions with no ill effects as they are fine in small doses. Cigarettes however are bad in any quantity. Having one when you're 15 and never doing it again is one thing, constant use, even small use is bad for you.

Originally posted by Doc Tesla
and i honestly think fast food kills more people then cigarettes. no one just pays attention to it because McDonald is socially acceptable while smoking in front of the wrong people will get you labeled as a sinner and an idiot.

Fast food doesn't kill anyone, people abusing fast food kills people. You can overdose on water and kill yourself. The difference is that cigarettes are damaging in small amounts, they have absolutely no positive medical uses. Even fast food has some nutritive benefit. You can argue that it relaxes people however there are many, non damaging ways to relax.

However again i state that if yuo have a private healthcare industry then there is no good reason for taxes on cigarettes.

reply to post by skeetontheconspiracy


They've done what! So you are inhaling oxidised, hot aluminium directly into your lungs? How in gods name did that pass any safety standard? I mean cigarettes are bad enough but to add aluminium into that, it's just irresponsible!