The Giza Pyramids were made in 2470 says new evidence.

Originally posted by felonius

Your source is actually NatGeo? Thats like saying you believe in global warming because the UN said so.

You need to look up two gentlemen.

Dr. John West and Robert Schoch. They have better evidence that says the sphinx is onwards of about 10-12k years (due to weather/water erosion.

NatGeo is a lap dog to politics and the NWO. Leave science to REAL scientists.



[edit on 25-9-2009 by felonius]

You know Robert Schoch was on either National Geographic or Discovery (maybe both) talking about his theory on the Sphinx and Yonaguni.

reply to post by Hanslune

Hans: Nor is there a single piece of evidence for a pyramid being build in 10,000 BC while there is a great deal of evidence for them being built in the old kingdom.

SC: The pyramids at Giza may have been constructed by the 4th Dynasty AEs but they are most certainly based upon an underlying unified design utilising the asterism of Orion's Belt and are clearly aligned to the minimum culmination of these stars c.10,500BCE.



[Map Source: The Giza Plateau Mapping Project)


Regards,

Scott Creighton

reply to post by Maddogkull


I don't think it really matters when the Pyramids were built, other than to correct history. The Pyramids, all of them in every part of the world, have a rhyme and reason The Earth is not in perfect balance, it wobbles.
Movement of the Earth
www.weborix.com...
The monoliths were placed to even out the wobble of an unstable planet, remember, there was a collision that carved out the Pacific Basin, and also the pyramids were artificial mountains, as in "mountains of God," a place where the God would reside when he visited Earth. They were also landmarks.

One of the earliest legends about the Great Pyramid come from an early Arab source, a writer, Ben Mohammed Balki, who stated that the pyramids (the three Giza pyramids) were built as a refuge against an approaching destruction of mankind either by fire or by water. Another Arab historian, Masoudi ( died A.D. 967) also cites a similar legend that the three pyramids were built as a result of a dream that appeared to King Surid, in which the flood was foretold, 300 years before it occurred. It is told that he ordered the priests to deposit within the pyramids written accounts of their wisdom and acquirements in the different arts and sciences... and of arithmetic and geometry, that they might remain as records for the benefit of those who would afterwards be able to comprehend them. Another Arab writer, Ibn Abd-al-Latif, said that the Second Pyramid was "filled with a store of riches and utensils... with arms which rust not, and with glass which might be bended and yet not broken". It is interesting to note that Masoudi also stated that "the Great Pyramid was inscribed with the heavenly spheres, and figures representing the stars and planets in the forms in which they were worshiped. Also the position of the stars and there cycles, together with the history and chronicles of time past, of that which is to come, and of every future event which would take place in Egypt." Another source says that written upon the walls of the pyramid was "the mysteries of science, astronomy, physics, and such useful knowledge which any person understanding our writing can read." Is there any evidence that confirms the Great Pyramid was once covered with the above writings?

Since the original casing stones were destroyed and removed for the building of mosques after an earthquake in 1301 AD, we do not know if there was any original writing upon them. It does not seem likely since there still remains some casing stones at the pyramids lowest level and they do not have any inscriptions on them. There are several possibilities.

1) This is a completely made up legend with no basis or fact.

2) All the casing stones that had writing on them were destroyed.

3) This legend got confused like many do and the writings are actually inside the pyramid in an undiscovered chamber or passageway.

4) The legend of the writings on the exterior of the Great Pyramid got confused with the writings in the Book of the Dead? That is they wrote the above not on the pyramid, but on papyrus to preserve it, which became the Book of the Dead. Is the Book of the Dead what remains of this writing in a corrupt fashion? Basil Stewart states "we know that it (the Great Pyramid) contains no such hieroglyphic inscriptions or representations of the heavenly stars and planets such as these traditions infer. It is only when we turn to the Book of the Dead that we find the passages and chambers of its "Secret House" inscribed with such hieroglyphic texts and formulae, and adorned with mythical figures and stars. That is to say, Coptic and Arab traditions have erroneously identified the inscribed passages of the allegorical Pyramid of the Book of the Dead with the actual passages and chambers of the Great Pyramid itself."

A very interesting account is given by Josephus in his Antiquities. Josephus states that "the descendants of Seth, after perfecting their study of astronomy, set out for Egypt, and there embodied their discoveries in the building of two "pillars" (i.e. monuments), one in stone and the other in brick, in order that this knowledge might not be lost before these discoveries were sufficiently known, upon Adam's prediction that the world was to be destroyed by a flood... and in order to exhibit them to mankind...Now this pillar remains in the land of Siriad (the Siriadic, or Dogstar, land of Egypt) to this day."

There is a similar tradition ascribed to Enoch. "Enoch, foreseeing the destruction of the earth, inscribed the science of astronomy upon two pillars."

It is interesting that almost all the traditions agree that the construction of the Great Pyramid was pre-deluge, and was built to preserve knowledge, etc. They agree in the main events with only variations of detail.

www.gizapyramid.com...

reply to post by genius/idoit


Howdy G/I

There were several hundred carbon 14 tests done not only on the pyramids but a wide range of old king items. They come out to a nice average. A consistent 10,000 year error is a bit hard to accept...

There is no sign of a culture to have built such huge structures at that time- just neolithic hunter/gathers

The relieving rooms graffiti

The finds within the rubble from the building of the pyramids - all old kingdom, much of it old pottery that can be accurately dated.

The Egyptians seemed to have thought they built them as tombs-why would they do that?

The Manetho and other documents king lists

The finding of the worker villages - where people seemed to think they were building pyramids - an entire village of insane people (LOL), such villages have been found at other pyramid sites.



[edit on 26/9/09 by Hanslune]

I find it odd that the unorthodox explanation for the existence of both the pyramids, and the sphinx, in relation to the constellations, and the derived dates for those events just seems to make for mare logical sense than the mainstream view that an impossible task was completed by neolithic man within a time frame impossible even today.

In this case it is the unbelievable which we are told is factual, and the totally believable we are being told is science fiction. As always, the "official" explanation is full of holes, inconsistencies and only produces more questions than it answers. While science tries to answer those questions, they are oblivious to the obvious.

[edit on 26-9-2009 by quackers]

If you look at the sphnix objectively it is pretty obvious that it was a rock that was roughly the shape it is now and that the ancient Egyptians took advantage of that fact and carved a face and some other details to make it into what it is today...

There is a rock not 5 miles from where I sit that for all intent and purpose looks uncarved like snoopy on his dog house...so it is not out of the question by a long shot...humans have been adapting rock features like that for a very long time now indeed.

As I understand it the erosion in question is on the body...if the above statement is correct then the erosion and the face (which is the main carved feature) then an older date for the erosion and an later date for the carvings are not mutually exclusive.

reply to post by grover


That is probably what happened. The part of the sphinx that sticks up was either naturally or shaped by man and was probably deemed sacred in some way. The pyramids were built to incorporate small hills and perhaps other sacred places. Of course when the stone around the proto-Sphinx was cut out the grand idea came to their minds and they went for it.

How old is the original sphinx - since it was a rock it is undatable. I'll let the geologists argue for a few more years and perhaps come to a concensus. until then its in a grey area. I suspect the built up parts of the Sphinx are of the same time frame as the Pyramids.

is it not possible that Khufu was not an individual, but a title handed to the greatest builder /builder of royal buildings.

reply to post by grover


aparrently the base was much older, and another statue was there(hundreds years before), so they recycled it and stuck their own creation ontop of it.

thats why it is slightly strange shape.

is there actually tunnels under it too?

Did they carbon date the right things, original material or restoration? I wouldn't trust it if Zahi Hawas had anything to do with it. Then there are people questioning the accuracy it carbon dating itself. I don't know if there is any validity to that or not.
I don't think it took 20 yrs to make the Great Pyramid. Cayce said it took 100 yrs. which seems much more likely. I'm going with his 10500 BC date. There is almost no hieroglyphs in there. We know that the AE put hieroglyphs in all there monuments so the Pyramids and temples with none are probably the ones built by Thoth the Atlantean.



www.bethcoleman.net...

www.thehiddenrecords.com...

[edit on 28-9-2009 by Sargoth]

reply to post by Sargoth


Howdy Sargoth

Lets reverse this instead of you hand waving away the hard evidence orthodoxy has. Why don't you put out the hard evidence for Thoth the Atlantean. Remember hard verifiable evidence, not opinions from seers, fringe authors and the usual suspects.

There isn't much hard data proving Thoth /Hermes/Enoch was the designer, other than all the psychics saying so. If there is evidence, it's been stolen or suppressed by Hawass and the powers that be. There is hard evidence showing the Sphinx is much older than Khufu's time. The water erosion of it's encloser puts it thousand of yrs. older, some say 8000-13000 BC.
Why doesn't Hawass carbon date the wood found in the air shafts? Because he's afraid of what the results would be? No Hieroglyphs-shows the Pharoahs didn't design those pyramids. The Khufu grafitti is probably just that, ancient grafitti during restoration, or Vyse's hoax.
I wish you would take a look at Melchizedek's books. I think you would be surprised. They really are amazing.

I would love to see MysteryQuest or Destination Truth or Ghosthunters spend a night in the Kings chamber.

This shows Cayce's accuracy. 80-90% A success rate like that can't be ignored. I don't see how anyone can denigrate his or anyone's material without ever researching it. Would you call that legitimate research? Have you researched Cayce or Melchizedek?
www.michaelmandeville.com...




[edit on 28-9-2009 by Sargoth]

There isn't much hard data proving Thoth /Hermes/Enoch was the designer, other than all the psychics saying so.

Hans: In other words no evidence at all. What about the seers who see something different?

If there is evidence, it's been stolen or suppressed by Hawass and the powers that be.

Hans: And you know that how? So how did they keep anything from being found by all the looters over the centuries?

There is hard evidence showing the Sphinx is much older than Khufu's time.

Hans: There is a debate within geology as to its age but the age estimates are around 5-7,000 years, the much older ones have been revised down.

The water erosion of it's encloser puts it thousand of yrs. older, some say 8000-13000 BC.

Hans: Like who? Don’t say Schock he revised his estimated time downwards

Why doesn't Hawass carbon date the wood found in the air shafts?

Hans: Since you believe he will steal or suppress the results that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense

No Hieroglyphs-shows the Pharoahs didn't design those pyramids.

Hans: This period seems to have used wooden panels inside the pyramids for that purpose – so why no hieroglyphs by the Atlanteans?

The Khufu grafitti is probably just that, ancient grafitti during restoration, or Vyse's hoax.

Hans: No Vyse hoax, that was a mistake of Sitchin – so you think the Egyptians got into the relieving chambers- in modern times the only way in was to use explosives – how did the Egyptian do it?

I wish you would take a look at Melchizedek's books.

Hans: From what little I’ve seen I cannot imagine there is anything in there but sci-fi

I think you would be surprised. They really are amazing.

Hans: Give me an example then

I would love to see MysteryQuest or Destination Truth or Ghosthunters spend a night in the Kings chamber.

Hans: People have in the past, Victorians did – what would be the point?

This shows Cayce's accuracy. 80-90% A success rate like that can't be ignored.

Hans: The people saying that are those who support him, they have never released the files to allow independent verification. In the world of Archaeology is success rate has been faultless – 100% failure, so no I don’t find him to be a good source

I don't see how anyone can denigrate his or anyone's material without ever researching it.

Hans: Cayce I have, he just made up stuff

Would you call that legitimate research?

Hans: Not at all and the results show the quality of it

Have you researched Cayce or Melchizedek?

Hans: Answered above, how much orthodox archaeology have you read? The easiest to understand would be Lehner.

Originally posted by Sargoth
This shows Cayce's accuracy. 80-90% A success rate like that can't be ignored. I don't see how anyone can denigrate his or anyone's material without ever researching it. Would you call that legitimate research? Have you researched Cayce or Melchizedek?

The Cayce mythology has been propagated by his family for decades. A dispenser of 19th Century homeopathic remedies, for which he charged but book kept as "donations". His success rate in that area have been skewed by only acknowledging grateful feedback mostly in the form of letters.
People who became increasingly ill and died simply did not maintain communications.

Martin Gardener and James Randi, among others, have thoroughly debunked Cayce's charming charlatanism.

On his knowledge of ancient civilizations he has scored 0% accuracy. Absolutely nothing he claimed about Egypt and certainly Atlantis, have been shown to have any true historical basis.


Mike

reply to post by mmiichael


Its interesting to note that he couldn't keep himself alive - I wonder if that counts against him?

reply to post by mmiichael


I wouldn't say 0%. Mabey 2%. I say this becasue he did predict the dead sea scrolls, and the cavity under the sphinx, which has been proven by scientists it exists.

Originally posted by Hanslune
reply to post by mmiichael

 

Its interesting to note that he couldn't keep himself alive - I wonder if that counts against him?

Someone wrote an article entitled "Edgar Cayce: the 'prophet' who 'slept' his way to the top."

Cayce was not able cure his dying relatives, even his own son.

He provided a hodge podge of Homeopathic and Allopathic medicine mixed with regional home remedies. Re-examination of his archives shows that many of the people claiming to be cured by letter subsequently succumbed to their illnesses. Tragically some might been made well had they been treated by conventional medicine.

Cayce was deeply religious and attempted to inject Jesus Christ into his far ranging prophesies and visions. If I recall correctly he predicted Atlantic was going to be discovered in around 1960.
And again what he has said about the past has been shown to be historically worthless. Though that hasn't discouraged people form trying to find some relevancy to his wild claims.

www.straightdope.com...

Cayce supporters probably don't like to talk about his failures in healing members of his own family. According to Beyerstein, Cayce's cousin, Ike, appealed to him for help but died. And one of Cayce's own sons died as a baby in 1911.

As if these weren't bad enough, we have several documented cases of Cayce advising how to cure dead people, in connection with readings using letters they sent to him. In these cases, the letters had been written while the person was still alive, but by the time he made his psychic "diagnosis," they were dead. Whoops! Of course, his followers have excuses for this type of thing, but it seems to me if he's getting his information through magical means, he should know this particular person is beyond help.

Those excuses apparently followed every obvious screw-up. Mind you, most of his failures weren't so obvious. As James Randi notes in Flim Flam: "The rationalizations that Cayce and his supporters used to explain his numerous and notable failures are prime examples of the art of evasion."
He later notes, "Cayce was fond of expressions like 'I feel that' and 'perhaps'--qualifying words used to avoid positive declarations. It is a common tool in the psychic trade. Many of the letters he received--in fact, most--contained specific details about the illnesses for which readings were required, and there was nothing to stop Cayce from knowing the contents of the letters and presenting that information as if it were a divine revelation. To one who has been through dozens of similar diagnoses, as I have, the methods are obvious. It is merely a specialized version of the 'generalization' technique of fortune-tellers."

Let's move on briefly to some other areas where Cayce tried to use his vast psychic powers. One example discussed in detail by Randi is Cayce's extraordinary failure in divining information about the Lindbergh kidnapping case. I bet you won't find too many Cayce supporters talking about that one.

Another failure was his attempt to find buried treasure. After several weeks of trying, with the additional help of a well-known dowser, he found nothing. The only thing they had to show for their work was excuses. Some of these are hysterical, such as the one about ghosts of Native Americans and pirates playing tricks with the psychic energy, or the claim that the treasure had been there but was already dug up by somebody else, or maybe it would be buried there at some future date. It's amazing that his magical powers could supposedly diagnose somebody from across the country, but couldn't tell the difference between the past, present, and future.

Gardner, Martin. Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science (New York: Dover Publications, Inc., 1957).

www.amazon.com...=0486203948/roberttoddcarrolA/


Randi, James. Flim-Flam! (Buffalo, New York: Prometheus Books,1982), ch. 9.

www.amazon.com...=0879751983/roberttoddcarrolA/



"Edgar Cayce: the 'prophet' who 'slept' his way to the top"
www.csicop.com...


Beyerstein, Dale. "Edgar Cayce," in The Encyclopedia of the Paranormal edited by Gordon Stein (Buffalo, N.Y.: Prometheus Books, 1996)

Originally posted by felonius

Your source is actually NatGeo? Thats like saying you believe in global warming because the UN said so.

You need to look up two gentlemen.

Dr. John West and Robert Schoch. They have better evidence that says the sphinx is onwards of about 10-12k years (due to weather/water erosion.

NatGeo is a lap dog to politics and the NWO. Leave science to REAL scientists.

Your last sentence there completely invalidates your post. You're bringing the NWO into this? Get a life. The NWO is a fabricated idea by paranoid loonies.

Originally posted by Totalstranger

Originally posted by Hellmutt

Originally posted by Maddogkull

Wasen't the sphinx supppose to guard the pyramids?

As the sphinx is older, that was probably never the intention. Anyway, it seems like the sphinx was not a cat after all. It may originally have been much bigger and may have looked like Anubis. The proportions of the sphinx body is "wrong" the way it looks now, a small head and a long body. It may have been damaged by an earthquake or something, and then turned into the sphinx we know today.

plus if the Sphinx was carved from a huge rock, that rock may have been sitting there for a million years before it was carved/shaped. so of course it would have erosion as oppossed to the Pyramids which were built brick by brick so to speak.

The sphinx isn't carved from a giant rock. Please go read a book or something. The head being out of proportion has many theories. Nobody knows the right answer. I kind of believe that it didn't always have a human face (which probably isn't Khufu's by the way). Put a lions face on it and the body is in in proportion with the head.

Originally posted by mmiichael
Overwheming evidence shows Egypt was a primitive hunter-gatherer society 10,000 BC and there is no substantiation of advanced tools and engineering.

The egyptians performed brain surgery on a man with brain cancer. Tell me that isn't advanced technology. I'm not saying they had cars and cellphones, but they weren't as stupid as you're making them out to be.

mmiichael, show me a site that gives the numbers, percentages of his accuracy. Ive looked and could only find what I posted. Every one said 80-90% success. I couldn't find any skeptics that bothered to research it. So you find one and post it. Your amazon links showed nothing.
James Randi thinks Nostradamus is bogus because he spelled Hitler wrong. He can't seem to realize that he encoded his quatrains on purpose. Cayce said that he was only to do 2 readings a day or he would do physical damage to himself, he kept doing about 8 a day and finally suffered a stroke and died. Your claim of 0% is pure BULL. Cayce said the Hall of Records is between the Sphinx and the Nile and Larry Hunter found the pyramid about 100 yrds in front of the Sphinx. I could go on but it wouldn't matter cause you're obviously very biased and won't listen to reason.
Hans, the evidence for Thoth being the designer is Anecdotal, meaning it can't be verified as far as I know, but you knew that. It's an opinion. I know some evidence is being suppressed by Hawass because he won't carbon date the right things, or he has done it but won't release it. The age of the Sphinx enclosure you admitted yourself is 2500-4500 yrs. older than Khufu. John Anthony West is the one who thinks it is in the 10,000-15,000 BC range or older.
Melchizedek says the Flower of life is the symbol that's been found all over the world, and the only symbol in the biggest pyramid in the world in western Tibet. I can't remember if he said Thoth did it or not. I would assume so. That would be the Atlantean symbol. Also the records are all in the Hall, no need to scatter them here and there.

www.youtube.com...




[edit on 29-9-2009 by Sargoth]

Originally posted by Sargoth
mmiichael, show me a site that gives the numbers, percentages of his accuracy. Ive looked and could only find what I posted. Every one said 80-90%. I couldn't find any skeptics that bothered to research it. So you find one and post it. Your amazon links showed nothing.

James Randi thinks Nostrdamus is bogus because he spelled Hitler wrong. He can't seem to realise that he encoded his quatrains on purpose. Cayce said that he was only to do 2 readings a day or he would do physical damage to himself, he kept doing about 8 a day and finally suffered a stroke and died.

All information in the world is not sitting on a website somewhere that you can Google. Most of what I know about Edgar Cayce has come from books and magazines.

Randi's examination of Nostradamus is extensive and the Hitler spelling thing is a tiny fraction of it.

You believe a lot of New Age material, as I did when I was young. The vast majority of it is wishful thinking, manipulated evidence, bad reporting - and a lot of outright lying. Like with religion, there always will be uninformed people and an industry catering to them. Beliefs in wonderful powers, hidden ancient history, secret wisdom - have always been popular.

When you look at almost all of this pseudo-information with a critical eye, you come to find out how much wishful thinking, distortion and delusion is really there. Data is invariably skewed to further what are essentially fantasy beliefs.

I recommend a good library, bookstore, or ordering online to get a better informed view of the many things promoted and sold online that are just plain false information.

I listed a few items on Cayce, which are a good starting point. The James F Randi Forum online is a good place to discuss these subjects. Your eyes will be opened.


Mike