G20 MILITARY dudes? snatch guy from crowd into unmarked car - Illegal beyond belief

Time for another information review here.

What do we ACTUALLY see here? These are my best summaries of the facts.

1) The guy 'snatched' was clearly an activist protestor. He was photographed perpretrating civil disobedience.
2) The security people that snatched him were part of a strategic security initiative, a mutli-agency 'quango' that appears to have no clear chain of control apart from FEMA. Very interesting that most the powerful agency in the U.S. should be in control here.
3) The 'snatchee' was photographed being held on the floor shortly after the initial arrest - he had cable ties binding his hands behind him.
4) The agencies involved confirmed that it was them that took the perp out and 'snatched' him - for 'allegedly' damaging a business outlet.
5) A statement was made that the national guard units, or the 'strategic initiative' units were not allowed to effect an arrest. This video shows an event in direct contravention of this. This should be investigated.
6) Contrary to a former post of mine, I now do not consider this young man to be Luke Rudkowski. I'm finding it hard to believe his identity has not been revealed yet.

Implications of this video?

1) This was a protest, but it was unusual. The protestors and 'activists' did not come to simply get photographed and shout rhetoric. It was clear than an organised and motivated element came to 'do battle' with the guards around the ivory tower. Why is this relevant? Protests only get this way before a civil insurgency erupts. When peaceful protests get ignored time and again, there's a limited amount of options left to the people with the gripe. This shows that in this instance, democracy has failed. The protests and the beginnings of the insurgency are a symptom of this.

2) The response was unusually fierce and targeted. During these events, we saw a wide variety of previously unknown agencies and 'quangos' coming out of the woodwork. The strategic intiative put into place during the G20 meetings (controlled by FEMA) was given the highest authority in the land, and routed through 'backwater' local agencies to diffuse the blame-trail. They had a plan, shown by the use of 'arrest teams' and compartmentalised operations. (Notice the distinct lack of SHERIFF / FBI / ATF / PBPD logo'd jackets?) The specific targeting of the people willing to be publicly disobedient (the activist 'snatched') shows a coordinated effort to remove the fledgling insurgency members. This event was used to take out the people willing to get off their butt and do something to fight back. This is a good sign - things are developing.

3) U.S. constitutional law has been violated with absolutely no attempt to hide this fact. 'Posse Comitatus' is there to prevent the use of the military against the people. If I'm not mistaken, the National Guard is still part of the military yes? The National Guard and 'Strategic Initiative' units were specifically told not to effect arrests in their rules of engagement were they not? Not only have they defied the constitution, they have defied their standing orders. This needs investigation.

In conclusion...

I'm with these activist people all the way. Yes they smash windows, yes they cause trouble, yes they threaten and rail against the 'thin blue line'. But what's the alternative? They've reached their limit, they have no alternative. Their political representatives haven't seen to defending their constitutional rights, as is clear, nor do they listen these 'willful' people. These people can't protest - it doesn't work, most people are so entrenched in casting others down (many of you curmudgeons are on ATS) that they just wont listen simply because they associate protesting with negative things. So what do they do?

They're doing the right thing. You deserve to have your windows smashed. You deserve to be frightened and harassed. They've picked a side, there is no place to hide anymore.

The Para.

I said in an earlier post that Police had credentials on the left arm and a wrist band as well. The police in the snatch and grab had arm credentials.

compare those pics to the pictures of the actual National Guard on patrol in Pittsburgh:

reply to post by Parallex


The 9/12 DC protestors were protesting because the government isn't abiding by the Constitution, and they are fed up with not being heard by their representitives. Did they resort to lawlessness?

You may want to actually read the Posse Comitatus Act-

KEY EXCEPTIONS TO THE POSSE COMITATUS ACT
A summary of key exceptions to the Posse Comitatus Act follows:3
• National Guard forces operating under the state authority of Title 32 (i.e., under state rather than federal service) are exempt from Posse Comitatus Act restrictions.

link

The state National Guard aren't federalized troops.

reply to post by stevegmu


With all due respect, the 9/12 rally was not surrounded and followed by droves of police in riot gear, using LRAD vehicles and tear gas to push the crowd and corral them. Had they been, I'm almost certain it would have been far worse situation.

Also, I believe there is an executive order that federalized national guard to report to the president, and not the governor. This was done to ensure the national guard fell under command of FEMA and the Department of Homeland Security.

Para, your sense and true words are wasted on those you are trying to get to see the big picture. Let me try.

As an outsider, non American and realist I will say just this.......

America, you are screwed. Now switch of the computers and go do something about it. Ive had to listen to you all for months going on about your new "Police State" being the final nail in your constitutional coffin.

Now....what you gonna do about the situation you are now all in?...or are you going to deny the situation exists????


respects

[edit on 26-9-2009 by captiva] Spelling...due to absolute frustration !!

[edit on 26-9-2009 by captiva]

[edit on 26-9-2009 by captiva]

It's all crap. I'd like to know where I can get a petition to try and add something to the ballot for vote. Even if it doesn't pass, the awareness raised by 'common sense' should be enough to start waking the sleeping masses up.

Please advise.

reply to post by ExPostFacto


That's because the 9/12 protest movement is peaceful, while the G20 protests never are.

Really? Can you provide a link showing said order? Everything I have read has stated Gov. Rendell called in the Penn National Guard, as well as asked for help from a NY Guard unit, which then became under his authority. They were never federalized, but I guess you have a link saying they were?

Does anyone have any follow up information about this?

Please post

Originally posted by stevegmu
reply to post by ExPostFacto

 

That's because the 9/12 protest movement is peaceful, while the G20 protests never are.

Really? Can you provide a link showing said order? Everything I have read has stated Gov. Rendell called in the Penn National Guard, as well as asked for help from a NY Guard unit, which then became under his authority. They were never federalized, but I guess you have a link saying they were?

I think people are talking about the change in federal emergency planning which says the President can bypass the state governors and basically take control of the National Guard. I can't remember if this was accomplished via executive order or if it was part of the John Warner Defense Act. While it's a clear overstep of the President's constitutional authority calling it the federalization of National Guard troops is a bit of a reach on a technicality. (At least it's not enacted until something occurs and a President actually does it). Until such an event occurs they aren't technically federalized yet and who knows if the state governors will allow it or if the National Guard would actually follow any such orders?

Tyrants can try to break the law all they want, only the cooperation of the police and military allows them to succeed.

Originally posted by CX
I still wonder about the "agent provocateur" theory though, it definately wouldn't be the first time..

I wonder the same thing, though in a different way than you. Something like this plays into what so many people here on ATS believe; I wonder if it was not staged in order to get people riled up, to "prove" these things are happening. There are so many liars and con-artists in the (for lack of a better term) conspiracy field, willing to go to just about any length, how can you trust anything like this?

Whether this is real or not, this is our future.

Originally posted by ExPostFacto
reply to post by stevegmu

 

Also, I believe there is an executive order that federalized national guard to report to the president, and not the governor. This was done to ensure the national guard fell under command of FEMA and the Department of Homeland Security.

The National Guard was not federalized, but was called into duty and under the control of Governor, Ed Rendell.

Curiously enough the entire mobilization was underwritten by the Federal Government so there is still an argument to be made that there could have been a posse commitatus violation. There is gray area and a lot of wiggle room for the government to win that argument however. .

i lived in Pittsburgh, my Hometown,

FYI

this same type of thing happens (Protest) when the trash tax was too high, the entire town was over run by punks and anarchist on a regular basis. i saw this type of thing 2 times in 3 years when i was there around 2000-2003.

the police had a hard time containing the trash tax protest let alone g20...

Pittsburgh is surrounded by poverty stricken ghettos... looks like bad parts of New York...

cops there are militant cause of crime and drug problems anyway, doesnt suprise me at all...

double posted

[edit on 27-9-2009 by werk71]

Originally posted by clay2 baraka
...

The National Guard was not federalized, but was called into duty and under the control of Governor, Ed Rendell.

Curiously enough the entire mobilization was underwritten by the Federal Government so there is still an argument to be made that there could have been a posse commitatus violation. There is gray area and a lot of wiggle room for the government to win that argument however. .

The Pittsburgh Area falls under Tier 2 eligibility for UASI funding.

The Governor of each State and territory with an eligible FY 2009 Urban Areas Security Initiative (UASI) Urban Area is required to designate a State Administrative Agency (SAA) to apply for and administer the funds awarded under the NSGP. The SAA is the only entity eligible to formally apply to FEMA for these funds.

To be eligible to receive FY 2009 NSGP funding, applicants must meet National Incident Management System (NIMS) compliance requirements. The NIMSCAST will be the required means to report FY 2008 NIMS compliance for FY 2009 preparedness award eligibility. All State and territory grantees were required to submit their compliance assessment via the NIMSCAST by September 30, 2008 in order to be eligible for FY 2009 preparedness programs.

...

SAAs, in coordination with the Urban Area Working Groups (UAWGs) and Citizen Corps Councils, are encouraged to actively and aggressively advertise the availability of the FY 2009 NSGP to eligible nonprofit organizations, especially to organizations that previously have not applied for or received NSGP funding.

www.fema.gov...

Incidental link I ran across that discusses the National Infrastructure Protection Plan:

www.dhs.gov...

Pittsburgh is not on the Whitehouse Intergovernmental Review (SPOC List) located here, so that means that they were not on the "fast track" for funding under the UASI program.

They had to specifically make the request via Pennsylvania's normal political structure.

It sounds like the typical federal govt tactic of using the promise of money to gain control. In this scenario, the national guard can apply for a big chunk of federal money from FEMA but the state has to sign on to the national response plan which allows the Feds to bypass the state government and take control over the National Guard resources of that state.

It's a song and dance routine, however. These programs always end up costing more to comply with than they actually deliver and for every dollar the feds give to the states they take out three in added taxes such as the gasoline tax and others. This is why the feds are proposing all kinds of new "punishment" taxes like the smoking tax, alcohol tax and so on. The public in general is too naive to understand the real agenda and only sees that the bad smokers or whoever are being punished. They don't see the big picture of local money being taken out of the state and the hidden costs of collecting and delivering that revenue to the feds.

This is how the federalization of the police has been accomplished. The feds push the war on drugs knowing the real costs of fighting that war and dealing with the prisoners will bankrupt municipal budgets. They come along and offer all kinds of financial incentives but they always have strings attached which require the police to be trained by / according to federal standards and for the criminal justice system to enforce mandatory sentencing guidelines. As usual, people don't see that the cost of keeping so many people in prison and on parol / probation ends up costing the states more than they will ever get from the feds.

There is no such thing as free federal money. The best they can do is shuffle money around but when your government is financed by private, for profit central banks they will always take more out than they put in. Even though it's gained the feds control over state and municipal governments they didn't even really pay for it, they just pretended to with a long con while selling the short con.

I'd be willing to bet the city hosting the G20 was excited about all the money they would make from the conference. When they add up the total cost of providing security and so on I doubt it will have been worth it. That's why they always go to financially desperate cities as host locations but then again, pretty much every medium or larger sized city is financially desperate. It's yet another symptom of a broken socio-political order.

Number 1... THOSE ARE NOT US TROOPS.

THEY ARE UNITED NATION TROOPS

Number 2... US TROOPS WOULD NOT DO THIS KIND OF #!

Dumbed down American People... Those Uniforms are not US uniforms of any branch.

WE WILL FIGHT THE NEW WORLD ORDER

reply to post by ExPostFacto


There is a report of a kid getting arrested, but it is not linked to this video footage.

It isn't just a problem with the uniforms, it is also the car they put the kid into, and the whole video.

This video is nothing but pure propaganda.

Once again look at the people from slides from a credible source.

Here is a picture of a protester getting arrested. This is how they do it.

www.pittsburghlive.com...

Edit to add - look at the slide show, notice how uniform the gear these real riot police are wearing. It is very different than the supposed police in this fake video.



[edit on 27-9-2009 by poet1b]

Originally posted by digger2381
reply to post by bismarcksea

 

ETA: Forgot to mention that I had the scanner on all day and they were calling out this location as one of the places where officers had an arrest but were surrounded by a crowd, needing assistance, send extra units, etc. Perhaps it was this that I was hearing. It sounded like baum and melvalle/melville on the scanner, and not being familiar with the area, I couldn't find it. Millvale, not melville. Doh.

First post here, so please forgive if I've missed something. First, I absolutely believe that the police and/or their superiors overreacted on several occasions during the protests. But I also understand the dangers the officers were in and appreciate their nervousness about the situation. And would like to say that for the most part I believe the officers acted with proper tactics and in good faith to most of the situations they faced. And I do believe that the video is real, but is not what people are making it out to be...

First, I don't understand why people haven't considered what digger said here. This is the most important part of all the speculation. Is there reason to believe that what digger said was a lie? Digger points out that per what they heard on a police scanner, the police had made an arrest in this immediate area and needed help with getting the person out of there safely and had asked for assistance. I buy the assistance part because at the very end of the video you can see smoke up the street usually a good sign of trouble.

Second, it has been stated several times that the guys in 'tigues are Pennsylvania ERT. Is there a reason not to believe this?

Therefore, I can't see why this can't be considered a legit episode. This guy was apparently already arrested because of something he did at or about the time of the video.

Therefore, there was no "snatching". If you watch the video carefully, the ERT seems to be sitting in a squatted position on the sidewalk (probably with the perp on the ground) while waiting on the car as they seem to "stand up" when it arrives. The couple of riot police close by are probably the ones that had arrested him, and had handed him over to the PA ERT. Again no snatching, no grabbing, no illegal law enforcement.

Next, in the still pic in the OP, it doesn't show someone standing with a foot on the perp's back, as mentioned in a previous post. There is an officer bent down next to him, putting on or adjusting the cable tie on the perp's hands (and yes, his knee is over, and probably touching, the guy's back resultant from the stance of the officer), but I don't see any kind of excessive force there.

And as for the guy in the red bandana, does anyone else see the guy give two thumbs up at the car while it's driving away? (at abt :25) This was the only thing that had given me pause about the validity of the film, tho' I never doubted it. But anyway, the two thumbs up shows that something went through his mind. I would say he acted on his thoughts which got him in trouble, thus his arrest.