93 Million Man Service Industry Strike, DO IT

reply to post by mopusvindictus

You couldn't PAY me to join a union.

Let's think for a moment about what they've done for the industries they have penetrated.

The Steel Industry. Now broke.

Let's see, the Auto Industry. Yeah, they broke that too.

You know what?

We would all do better shooting ourselves.

At least the suffering would be over quickly, and we wouldn't have to ruin others lives as well as our own.

reply to post by Tamale_214


Your actually short about 1.4 G from that number, it's closer to or at 9.00 an hr

And the Minimum wage is 7.25

Now lets actually address that poverty line...

A studio apt 550.00 a Month

6,600.00

Utilities including Cable and Internet 250.000 a Month

3000.00

Food 300 a Month

3,600.00

That's 13,200 so far

Minimum wage now...

13,920 for the year

but wait minus SS - 60 per month that's 660.00 for the year

Hey that leaves 120.00!!!!

Oh crud... gotta take the bus 2.00 a day 10.00 a week 40.00 a month

-480.00

Damn I'm 360.00 in the whole...

Shoot I need special pants for work... yeah I know i'm late I can't get on the Bus today...what, WHAT I'm fired.....

3 weeks later, no rent....

Damn Now i'm homeless....



But hey your saying 8.41 buy "their" standards of poverty which is about 16,200

so okay

Now you have about 1,800.00 and you can add some cheap clothes to your list of luxuries... and have that left over

So you buy a cheap car for 1,800 bucks... your young insurance is 100 a month to be remotely fair... that's 1,200

Next year you have... 600.00 bucks but.... oh oh the transmission goes... 900.00 I just lost my car!!!!

Back to square 1...



I haven't even left the House to go out ONE TIME at that level...

WHO THE HELL EXPECTS ANYONE TO LIVE LIKE THAT?

You get very bit of the same life - Except Internet if you go to Prison.

Studio Apt and no car lol... The American dream?

Want fries with that info?

reply to post by dooper


We have touched on the subject of Organized Crime and what happened the first round of unions...

Maybe we don't even call it Unions... that system failed... so your words are Understandable.

But there is nothing now, nothing to represent employees and one has to ask... why were the Unions corrupted? What went wrong, who's interests was it in to see them fail? were people bought? was crime involved...

Yes Yes and Yes

So i'm not going to Harp on the term Union...

No Semantics...

Your smart as a whip... who represents the masses then? What do you propose? Who is there for the bulk of American consumers as we drift to Socialism to fill that Gap...

Is the govt going to be better or worse... than the Mafia Lol

You know, the Govt the guys from a post or 2 back that think you can live on 7.25 an hr

So screw the term "Union"

Do we create a system to assure the corps, the same guys who lobby and buy the Politicians anyway... give us rights?

Or do we let the Politicians control this via Socialism?

You are aware... allowing the same guys who meet the corporation's lobbyists to set wage standards and employee rights is allowing the Fox to guard the hen house right? That it's utter slavery soon?

It HAS to be a 3rd party not the Govt... or we are utterly screwed for the rest of our lives... so UNION as we know Union... yeah...pthhhhhh I agree and know what those of you who protest that think and feel...

But the Govt being in charge of fighting for our Wages? Suicide

reply to post by mopusvindictus


"Is the govt going to be better or worse... than the Mafia?"

Is that one category or two?

(sorry, couldn't resist)

reply to post by whitewave




That actually would make an interesting thread... govt connections to the mob...

It is almost redundant.

reply to post by mopusvindictus
this is an excellent thread w/lots of merit and i am all for it. when you said:

Again any reason thrown at me as to why NOT... I have a very simple comeback.... 20 years ago this is the way things were, this isn't about demanding something new, it's demanding what was taken from us.

it hit me to the core. this is what i have been yelling for some time.

i have emailed this thread to numerous people.

s/f

reply to post by musselwhite


My regret,

I started this thread loosely with some good points...

But after watching the police action today in Pittsburgh

I wouldn't make this thread about just low wage employee organization

I would at this time call for general strike to shut down the American Economy and Legal system entirely.

reply to post by mopusvindictus
it was not so much the words of your original post that took hold it was your passion i felt. you have fire. you have a good mind. you have youth. you were born with these abilities. your words have merit and your words provoke others to action. you kindled a fire in me. you were born to lead.

yes, our world is upside down. our people are divided. i am convinced this evil must continue until it has run its course and at this point it will be the end of this current system of things.

whether a man is evil or good we all share a common destiny........death.

it is what we do between birth and death that makes the difference.

i am a daughter, sister, mother, grandmother.......i am a friend.

Common Sense 2009
Larry Flynt
The Huffington Post
August 20, 2009

I’m calling for a national strike, one designed to close the country down for a day. The intent? Real campaign-finance reform and strong restrictions on lobbying. Because nothing will change until we take corporate money out of politics. Nothing will improve until our politicians are once again answerable to their constituents, not the rich and powerful. Let’s set a date. No one goes to work. No one buys anything. And if that isn’t effective — if the politicians ignore us — we do it again. And again. And again. The real war is not between the left and the right. It is between the average American and the ruling class. If we come together on this single issue, everything else will resolve itself. It’s time we took back our government from those who would make us their slaves.

www.beyondleftright.com...

your idea is in line with what needs to be done. this is an excellent article on common sense.

you were right on with your idea on a national strike.

reply to post by Anti-Evil


I suggest to people that we vote third party. Forget the name but think what these people sand for.

They want smaller government and they hate the Federal Reserve. They are the Libertarian party.

I would like to see the Federal government returned to what it was supposed to be a government that dealt with foreign affairs, wars, and issues between states. Leave most of the internal affairs to the states. If a state like Mass. wants Health Care fine Then those who want it can move there. However when I was working in MA I found all the Socialist and Communists would push for massive (and expensive) state run programs and then move to New Hampshire because the taxes were lower. Of course then they would complain bitterly that New Hampshire was not like MA. the natives from New Hampshire would have loved to barricade the border. Unfortunately the Socialist and Communists are now busy turning New Hampshire into another Mass.

Why is people can not do the simple connection between big government and big taxes??

reply to post by kosmicjack

In my own industry we always joke that just as soon as they can figure out a way to replace us all with robots, they will. Really, though, it's not so funny. It happened in manufacturing and it is happening in virtually every sector.

Where I live, they are now introducing self service check outs in supermarkets where you scan , pack and pay for the groceries yourself. Yet I haven't seen the price of the goods go down at all.

So, if the customer has to do the work of a check out operator, who is getting the person wages that are saved? Not the customer that's for sure.

So I can see a lot of places where maybe not robots are introduced but where they can get the customer to do most of the legwork themselves with no benefit to them at all.

It happened with Banks and ATMs.
What did we receive by accepting to do the transanctions ourselves that saved the cost of tellers wages? Absolutely nothing.

OP I think you've hit on a great idea. Most people don't like Unions and the fees they charge but at the end of the day the only thing that brings change is people power. And most should consider a Union their very own lobby group. It's the closest thing to a Lobby group that workers will ever have.




[edit on 27-9-2009 by Flighty]

reply to post by mopusvindictus


Think of it this way (this may be economically wrong but it is besides my point). Society as a whole have one dollar. No matter how we distribute it, we still get one dollar. While logic says dividing it evenly is the best, it leaves no diversity. Without the rich, there would be nothing of high material to strive for. No dream cars, houses, yadda. I am opposed to that. I would like to think that if I give life my best shot, I can accomplish these goals some day.

I love your ideas...but others have made very good points as well.

This is how "I" see it.

In order for there to be rich, there needs to be poor. Certain items can have an unlimited demand, but for those who reach it can be very minimal.

What you are trying to do would help blend the middle class with the lower class workers. It would create a larger gap between the top tier and low tier (financially).

That is bad. I am a dishwasher. I make minimum wage. I get a paid 5-10 minute break for 3 1/2 hour shifts, eat a few snacks, and have maybe 30 minutes of nothing. The rest of the time, busting my chaps.

But this is something I accept, because if I want to live the life style of my boss when I am older, there will need to be people that I can use and make a good profit from. I am one of those people at the moment.

Third world countries don't have unions - those who are lucky enough to have work shut up and work harder.

You may not yet realize that the US is a third world country - but it will become clearer and clearer as time passes.

Wages and salaries will be set by market conditions - with so much supply, and so little demand now and for the foreseeable future - you would be wise to accept any working conditions, so long as you have a job. If you have somewhere to live - then you are also fortunate - the standards you were used to are gone, new standards are coming - much lower standards - living many people to one home, sharing cars, buying a motorcycle instead - it is coming your way very soon.

The entire world is fighting over a bigger piece of pie for themselves when, in fact, there is enough pie to fill the bellies of everyone on the planet. There is enough ingenuity to create new "recipes for pies".

Any monetary system at all is going to be flawed, whether it's paper monies, metallic coins or digital bleeps on an electronic screen. Because in order to make a profit, someone will have to have less, creating the rich man/poor man dichotomy. There's no need for that.

In order to make more money that your fellows, someone (or a large group of someones) has to make less. That's the very concept of "profit". Typically this has been accomplished by having segments of the population who were considered slaves.

A man could support a household because he had a wife to do an ungodly amount of work all for the meager price of rent and board and could beat her into submission if he chose to do so.

Then there was slavery in which a slave holder could get his slaves to do an ungodly amount of work all for the meager price of rent and board and could beat them into submission if they chose to do so.

There's also the prison population in which the state gets the prisoners to do an ungodly amount of work all for the meager price of rent and board (and a few pennies) and usually beats them into submission if they chose to do so.

Now, most of us are "wage slaves" in which we willingly rise every morning to go do an ungodly amount of work all for the meager price of little more than room and board and are constantly threatened with "fines, incarceration, reduction of what little we have" if we balk at our lot in life.

In all these scenarios, someone was able to "make a profit" because they stole the labors of their fellows without adequate compensation. If an elite group can get the labors of an entire nation or group of nations then we all become slaves for the profits of a few.

There's absolutely no need for this. It's a "scarcity" mentality that makes people think there's not enough to go around so that they're happy with whatever little crumbs are thrown their way. In fact, the world is teeming with abundance. Poorly managed but abundant. We need better managers and an entirely new system or paradigm.

In order to get rid of the "profit" driven system based on a scarcity mentality, the entire monetary system needs to go. Shuffling the cards around to deal the have-nots a better hand does nothing to fix the game. The game is innately flawed.

Such a radical change would require not only a change in monetary remuneration but a change in our way of thinking. We, as a human race, are going to have to grow up and accept responsibility for ourselves.

Yes, individuals have varying degrees of ability and needs but to TAKE from each according to their ability and to GIVE to each according to their needs is inevitably determined by someone other than you.

A governing agency may determine my "ability" to be much more than I consider it to be and work me to death. Again, the same agency may determine that my "need" is much less than I determine it to be and starve me to death.

I do not need to be scolded like a recalcitrant child by a nanny state. I am a grown adult capable of determining my own ability and need and providing accordingly. The many regulations of the state hamper me from doing so and make independence illegal. This needs to stop.

I could go on (and on and on) but it just becomes a rant so I'll stop now.

Originally posted by mopusvindictus
And just for any big business siding economists

I WANT TO GO TO MY CORNER TO BUY MY KID A MILK SHAKE AGAIN AND GET IT IN A BIG COLD GLASS MADE IN A TIN WITH LEFT OVERS BECAUSE IT WAS TOO BIG FOR THE GLASS AND HAVE IT GIVEN TO ME BY A NICE OLD LADY THAT ISN'T SICK FROM STRESS AND MISERABLE BUT RUNS A NICE LITTLE SHOP AND LOVES TO SEE ME AND MY KIDS COME IN

I DO NOT WANT SOME WATERED DOWN CRAP IN STYROFOAM CUP WITH GOD KNOWS WHAT CHEMICALS LEAKING FROM IT AND SOME CRAP PLASTIC CAP AND PAY 2X AS MUCH FOR IT AND IT'S NOT EVEN REAL ICE CREAM BUT SOME JUNK FROM A BACTERIA RIDDEN MACHINE THAT HAS SAT THERE ROTTING FOR 2 DAYS BEFORE IT'S SQUEEZED LIKE SOME ROBOTIC TURD FROM A HOSE AND HANDED TO ME BY SOME MISERABLE UNDERPAID PERSON WHO HATES HIS JOB IS SNOTTY TO ME AND LOOKS LIKE A RETARD DRESSED UP IN BRIGHT COLORS BEING FORECD TO GIVE ME A FAKE SMILE WITH HIS ROTTEN TEETH

Any justification for this kind of business is unpatriotic, comes from a set of horribly lowered standards and has no decency or compassion for my fellow man...

I am in business, i'm not stuck at these jobs...

but i have to buy this crap and live like a CLOWN because of it, i want to punch someone in the face if I go into a Mc Donalds its a disgrace, i see the kid looking like a complete puts and i want to kick his rear end for no reason

This is America? Some awful colored disgust of a trashy tacky pile of dog poop

Burn it down if they don't stop... strike who cares...

Get our self respect back...

They wondered why Euro Disney is a Big flop? They aren't Stupid that's Why... who the heel wants to get dressed as Goofy for 7.50 an hr, what kind of respect less undignified donkey is enjoying this PUKE


Sorry for rant... but everyone with a brain knows what i'm saying...

Give me a GOD damned burger after 9.00 without forcing me to eat food that will kill me, stop accepting this, get the poppers out of your damn mouths and do something for christ sakes...

Sorry to rant but come on...

They got to raise prices at Walmart and McDonalds to pay The kid with all the Zits an extra 2.00 an hr? BULL POO

and damn it... make them take of those friggin moronic hats, they embarrass me to be an American

Rant Over

I like Disneyland (it must be a chick thing), I'm with you on the milkshake statement and I may not agree with 100% of what you rant about but I have to admit - your rants are pretty impressive.

Pretty impressive thread you got going here, S & F.

I want to propose we all go to work for MOPUS!! Yeah, that's the answer!!



Just kidding of course...keep up the good work...I'll keep up with the thread

Originally posted by mopusvindictus
reply to post by truthquest

 

May I ask... what Union paid minimum wage lol

Seriously, I have never heard of this in my life...

this sounds made up, I need details

I don't give out personal details on ATS, sorry. I'd bet it happens all the time so I'm sure you can find a lot of cases through Google.

EDIT: I ran a Google search "minimum wage union jobs" returned millions of results, pretty much all of them apparently have nothing to do with minimum wage union jobs. However I did find something that basically proves my point at:
www.timesonline.co.uk...

[edit on 1-10-2009 by truthquest]

omg this has to be the smartest thread on the web

im with the OP here all the way on this

i expect this thread to be pretty active and i have a lot to say

so im gonna chime in with little chunks like this one

regarding minimum wage union jobs

i had one myself in MO in the 80's at a local grocery store chain

all workers had to be union, so joining meant fees and regular dues

benefits from the union were available to all full-time workers

only part-time positions were offered.

i was a part time bag-boy, so i saw no union benefits from that job

but i did pay union dues. and whats more (STEREOTYPE BELOW)

is that the entire union board of directors was Italian and wore really nice suits

ok thats all true. and im STILL PRO UNION

i talked it over with my dad (union printer) and he felt that it was a shame that unions had become tainted, but that they were too effective and still too necessary to throw out.

my father expalined that RICH PEOPLE already had illegal violence on their side. and that POOR PEOPLE could not negotiate without similar force available...

it was a bit realpolitik for a 10 yr old to dig,
but i had read about the french revolution,
and about henry ford shooting his striking workers.

i think some of what the OP is saying is addressed in the old workers anthem BREAD AND ROSES.

i live in middle america and there is a nice steakhouse just around the corner. its family owned, not a big chain type place. The crowd is is about as stereotypically midwestern as you can imagine. mostly white christians into country music, fox news, and pro sports.

im considered far-wacko-left in this environment, but every bar needs one, and i love the place and hang out there a lot...

what im leading into is that this batch of "regular americans" has been badly built.

there is a mob of self professed, self righteous, "conservatives" who express the smallest kind of skin-flinted social bitterness.

i say things like "C'mon guys, we have a MORTGAGE LENDING crisis, a VACANT HOUSING crisis, and a HOMELESSNESS crisis... AT THE SAME TIME!!! (pregnant pause) So what if we just started letting people live in houses?"

and they say things like "F--K the poor they deserve it!"
i say "you drive a Chevy Pete, you're poor!"

NO ONE IN THE WORKING CLASS WILL ADMIT TO BEING POOR.

i guess 'cause then they'd "deserve" to work like a slave.

as an ardent leftist i'm stunned and thrilled that i agree so wholeheartedly with what the OP is feeling.

life without dignity is a bad bargain.

reply to post by mopusvindictus


Whew... lots to cover mopus. I think the best way is for me to go point by point.

No one said anything about any set ceilings on prices.

Yes you did....

Just a method to contro1 price gouging.

That is called a price ceiling.

Complex economic theories are always justification for social rape and pillage I have never seen an example where they are not.

Social rape and pillage comes from the state. Taxes are a great example of this. We don't even have right to make money, buy things, or live somewhere without being subjected to coercion. Just because you don't understand 'complex' economic theories, don't write them off as such.

I don't care if a mandatory 10% is added to employee checks at the end of the month vs profits, no one should work for a fraction of a percent of the take, it's slavery

It's not. It's the opposite of slavery. You throw around the word 'mandatory' like its nothing. What you are saying is 'the all powerful state should enforce businesses to do what they desire'. That's slavery.

It's wrong, I would NEVER treat any employee that way and you might find every economic reason in the world to say that well 'If we do that, then they will just play with losses or profits and...balha blah blah"

Yeah! Say no to logic! Logic sucks.

It's a crap theory based on numbers not people

This is a crap statement used to discredit logical arguments with emotional, unsubstantiated banter. KILL THE STRAW MAN.

What has happened to small business, minimum wage didn't run it out... RENT Prices and Megacorps did

This is standard issue left wing garbage. Pelosi called, she needs are rhetoric back.

Then Walmart comes and puts 100 stores out of business because you can shop all in one place... Now a decade later after their LOW LOW prices got people to use them... They now charge the same price as anywhere else for cheap Chinese junk and it's a rip off...

The consumer has the right to not go to Walmart, thus has the right to take business elsewhere and padding someone else's market share. No one forces anyone to shop at Walmart.

And actually, Walmart directly improves the standard of living to millions of low-income people and families in a way that Welfare and other social programs can only dream. In fact, I myself shop there when I get sick of eating ramen noodle soup and bologna and dorito sandwiches. I like the fact that I can get stuff like olive oil at vegetable oil prices.

Where One Walmart once was a Local Shoe store... a Clothing store a toy store, a Hardware store, on and on...

Boo friggen hoo. We used to have horse and buggy too, then those stupid, loud automobiles came in a ruined everything. Nostalgia has value, but you have to pay extra for it.

Corp Crap America gives us Dope tests, invasion of privacy and they cycle you out as your reward when you are there too long.

I believe you speak of our government.

I DO NOT WANT SOME WATERED DOWN CRAP IN STYROFOAM CUP WITH GOD KNOWS WHAT CHEMICALS LEAKING FROM IT AND SOME CRAP PLASTIC CAP AND PAY 2X AS MUCH FOR IT AND IT'S NOT EVEN REAL ICE CREAM BUT SOME JUNK FROM A BACTERIA RIDDEN MACHINE THAT HAS SAT THERE ROTTING FOR 2 DAYS BEFORE IT'S SQUEEZED LIKE SOME ROBOTIC TURD FROM A HOSE AND HANDED TO ME BY SOME MISERABLE UNDERPAID PERSON WHO HATES HIS JOB IS SNOTTY TO ME AND LOOKS LIKE A RETARD DRESSED UP IN BRIGHT COLORS BEING FORECD TO GIVE ME A FAKE SMILE WITH HIS ROTTEN TEETH

Would it be a good idea not to buy such a product? Try the Dairy Queen down the street, I heard the people are nice and the cones were good. Consumers have rights. No one forces you to shop anywhere.

Any justification for this kind of business is unpatriotic, comes from a set of horribly lowered standards and has no decency or compassion for my fellow man...

Here's a justification. Said business would likely not last long and fail, or in the very least open up large portions of its market share (due to poor quality) to another better shop, and then eventually change or fail.

Is the govt going to be better or worse... than the Mafia Lol

Great question. First and foremost the government creates the black markets which organized crime makes money. Second, it's almost impossible to discern between the two because their methods and structures are the same.

Or do we let the Politicians control this via Socialism?

The only way to enforce minimum wage is with government activity. Key word is enforce.

I think I covered the jist of it.