There is NO heaven OR Hell.

Originally posted by qisoa

Originally posted by DragonriderGal
Huh. Physical realm 'Concrete proof' and spirit realm 'proof' are like asking about a pear, by insisting that I must use an apple to explain what it is... it almost is an oxymoron. The 'proof' is the 'knowingness' that I've been talking about. For me it comes like a silent gonging when I hear something that is 'true'. Others feel a chill or get goose bumps, still others have 'aha' type experiences... plus probably a dozen more.

To use your fruit metaphor: I'm not asking you to define a pear in terms of an apple. Instead, the question would be 'what makes a pear a pear?' A pear has definable characteristics We can look at a pear and identify it as a pear because of those characteristics. We would both 'know' that it is a pear because of its 'pearness.' It's the difference between objective and subjective. It's easy to discuss physical topics because of objectively obtained data which can be observed, experienced, etc. Spiritual experiences tend to be more subjective.

from Wikipedia: An epiphany (from the ancient Greek ἐπιφάνεια, epiphaneia, "manifestation, striking appearance") is the sudden realization or comprehension of the (larger) essence or meaning of something. The term is used in either a philosophical or literal sense to signify that the claimant has "found the last piece of the puzzle and now sees the whole picture," or has new information or experience, often insignificant by itself, that illuminates a deeper or numinous foundational frame of reference.

I'm simply trying to point out the difficulty that arises when one person's view of reality is different from another's. Your conception of the spirit realm is different from my conception of the spirit realm. I have my own experiences and 'knowingness' which indicate that my conception is true. My conception and your conception are different still from a third conception I ran across last year: that humanity exists solely as a biological experiment in a laboratory maintained by the Reptilian aliens.

Each of us three is convinced that our conceptions are true, yet all three can't be true simultaneously.

So...

...if the three of us are each convinced that our conceptions are true...

...but we have only our subjective personal experiences to draw from...

...how do you really know that your reality is the 'correct' one?

If you have an ongoing mini-movie in documentary style playing out human memories of various times and places in the history of the world as well as memories of current and future times whenever you ask about something, then it is much harder to feel uncertain of what's going on. The stories/memories don't change no matter how many times I see them.

And my guess would be in the overall picture, each one of us holds a part of the elephant but can't see how the elephant is connected to itself, hence see our part as a separate 'truth'. There is a NWO 'version' that is being played to those who will 'hear' it that the Dracs aka reptilians are the bad guys, and so they were the ones experimenting on us. In reality, it is the greys who did the experimenting.. and brought humanity into sentience in the process. But it wasn't done for evil purposes, it was done to preserve their species.

I don't know what you believe, so I can't see what part of the elephant you are holding on to. But viewing from the racial unconscious shows me the whole elephant, and also what kinds of information are being fed to us for the purpose of confusing and muddling the spiritual waters, and leaving everyone adrift and unable to really figure out what is 'true' about the spirit realm. Just like they want it.

Originally posted by Jordan River
The op is a nutcase. Although, I must attain some senseiblity to your spiritual journey. But than again you come off very intolerant to those who are also spiritual.

So I wonder... If you are so spiritual, why break this great important information to us? Unless you believe that your spirituality is far higher than our own? I am a little confuse. Perhaps you should meditate on this one

In a world of blind people, someone who can see the color blue would probably come off as intolerant too. I can see the color blue. The NWO spun blinders are gone. I'm not superior at all though, just another human but one who's done a lot of personal growth work and could see that there were bigger patterns even before I started getting information from the racial unconscious.

And the common NWO spun version of stuff always left me feeling like there was a LOT of information missing, especially that religion stuff. Never made sense, but we were supposed to just swallow it whole because they said so... Just have more 'faith'. Yah, right. Just leave your blinders on, is more like it.

Same with 'science'. Only believe what we tell you to believe.. er.. I mean what WE 'prove'. Never question the motives of the researchers, never wonder if there isn't research that needs doing but isn't being done, nope, just believe in the inherent 'goodness' and 'trustworthiness' of your friendly scientist who is only trying to help us 'understand' the world around us better. Uh huh. Research is funded. Research is published for the sharing of the knowledge. Whoever controls the funding and the publication process is in complete control of the research aka the NWO bunch. Don't for a minute believe you are getting unbiased, uncontrolled information.

And if you are still asleep, then yes, I am ahead of you, just like someone with a post-graduate degree is ahead of someone with a high school diploma, eh?

reply to post by DragonriderGal


DRG, I applaud you on your steps through 'existance'. I am curious to gender identity there, are you still female?
What you have described (in the op) sounds a lot like the astral realm. Which in truth there is no heaven or hell. Now there are higher planes of existance as well as lower planes of existance. As you have mentioned, this planet (incarnation spot ) is overshadowed by beings of lower selfish vibrations.

The gnostic text from dead sea scrolls are cryptic (given arimac to english translation) but they open your eyes to who and what Yeshua reall was/is. You see truth must be added with lies or it is harder for 'sheep' to follow. Not to mention that what is written rings of truth. The teaching of Christ within is a strong one that spands all existance. No one can make another change their mind, it must be inside of them first. So I must give praise to you for your fortitude within this topic.
Please keep following which inside you know with all of your being that which is good! hint: anti selfish
Peace and Harmony through unconditional LOVE!

Of course not, why would anyone believe in such outlandish stories? I mean, it's not like anything ever gets proven!

The earth? Nah, it's flat. The sun revolves around us and we'll never go faster then sound. Shoot, we'll never even trap anti-matter as well huh? It's not like we humans don't know everything right? It's not like anything ever again can possibly be proven since we know absolutely everything now right? Because we all do know everything don't we?

Wait, we don't? The earth has been proven round? We revolve around the sun?! We've gone faster then sound!!??

My friend, humans don't know jack. Just because you don't believe in Heaven or Hell doesn't mean they're not there. Just like how people knew we were flat and how we knew the sun revolved around us...

We're constantly learning. People are discovering new things all the time, so it's a little to early to really say that you *know* something doesn't exist.

Originally posted by constantine70
reply to post by DragonriderGal

 

DRG, I applaud you on your steps through 'existance'. I am curious to gender identity there, are you still female?
What you have described (in the op) sounds a lot like the astral realm. Which in truth there is no heaven or hell. Now there are higher planes of existance as well as lower planes of existance. As you have mentioned, this planet (incarnation spot

) is overshadowed by beings of lower selfish vibrations.

The gnostic text from dead sea scrolls are cryptic (given arimac to english translation) but they open your eyes to who and what Yeshua reall was/is. You see truth must be added with lies or it is harder for 'sheep' to follow. Not to mention that what is written rings of truth. The teaching of Christ within is a strong one that spands all existance. No one can make another change their mind, it must be inside of them first. So I must give praise to you for your fortitude within this topic.
Please keep following which inside you know with all of your being that which is good! hint: anti selfish

Peace and Harmony through unconditional LOVE!

Thanks for your response, constantine70! And that is very right about adding a dash of truth to the big pot of lies that is christanity today. My analogy is like how low end coffee roasters add just a dash of arabica beans to the much cheaper and yucky tasting robusta beans to make the coffee more palatable.. but once you've had pure arabica coffee, you won't ever be fooled by that cheap trick again.

Unfortunately, most people are never given a chance to taste pure 'spirit realm stuff', just the cheapened and lie-laced versions religions of all sorts use to keep them under control, with only hints of true spirituality. But since most people have never really connected to the 'god' energy of the racial unconscious, they can't tell the difference, and they think they are having the true 'spiritual' experience.

And that whole 'love and light' thing must never be at the cost of who you truly are. If you have to fake it, then you have issues that need dealing with. In the whole making full enlightenment, it would be much better to be who you actually are and fix things than have to peel off the layer of pretending to be who you think you should be to seem spiritual, and THEN have to fix that level before you can work on the level underneath it. Plus if you don't want to know that lower level is still there despite how loving and unselfish you may act, then you have to deal with that whole bit of denial before you can even start working on healing the aspect of yourself that isn't about love and light.

And that whole 'love and light' thing is out of whack too. The NWO has spun all religions, even the more esoteric thought form ones... making full enlightenment is about balance; of yourself and your connection to others. If you 'lose' yourself in service to others, you won't be able to stay in the spirit/light body, because you won't 'know' who YOU are. And of course, if you don't do connection to others,. then you won't be able to tolerate the constant unrelenting connection to others being in a spirit/light body requires. The NWO has put a LOT of thought and effort into preventing us from making the shift, in part because it makes us much more aware on the spiritual level and their manipulations and ploys are much more obvious at that level.

Originally posted by Frontkjemper
Of course not, why would anyone believe in such outlandish stories? I mean, it's not like anything ever gets proven!

The earth? Nah, it's flat. The sun revolves around us and we'll never go faster then sound. Shoot, we'll never even trap anti-matter as well huh? It's not like we humans don't know everything right? It's not like anything ever again can possibly be proven since we know absolutely everything now right? Because we all do know everything don't we?

Wait, we don't? The earth has been proven round? We revolve around the sun?! We've gone faster then sound!!??

My friend, humans don't know jack. Just because you don't believe in Heaven or Hell doesn't mean they're not there. Just like how people knew we were flat and how we knew the sun revolved around us...

We're constantly learning. People are discovering new things all the time, so it's a little to early to really say that you *know* something doesn't exist.

The catholic church, the powerhouse of the dark ages, was run by the NWO bunch. Leading from the upper levels of human organizations they can corrupt (especially if it is one of their creations to begin with) is their forte. And they lose control of humanity when the humans can go wandering off to new lands, plus they knew that the Starpeople's humans weren't under their control and could 'walk' in the spirit realms; a place where what the NWO is up to is a LOT clearer. So yah, they very much pushed their 'flocks' to believe in a flat world. Kept them at home. And they were powerful enough to punish those who wouldn't go along with what they wanted us humans to believe. So most of those kinds of funky beliefs thoughout history have been because of the NWO and it's agenda to enslave humanity.

And I do know Jack. Actually I know several Jacks! hahahhha

But I do know for sure that heaven and hell are non-existent because I quite clearly remember a lot of my own past lives, with not a single heaven or hell involved. The passing thru to the next life can be up on the higher plane if you've been the decent sort, which may seem like heaven, and if you've been a very naughty person, hurting and murdering and such, all the spirits of those you abused/killed are waiting just outside death's door to share the pain of what you did to them, so for a bit (depending on how many you abused) you will be suffering like hell, so it may seem like hell, but it isn't either.

Nope, all just "passing thru to the next life" stuff. All the heaven/hell crap is because the NWO bunch aka illuminati aka ex-high priests of Israel aka the ex-leadership of the alien race the Jue-sah want us to be so afraid of what happens to us after we die, that we will run to whatever we can find to 'protect' us from ending up in hell, or guaranteeing we end up in heaven aka their control tool, 'religion'.

Originally posted by DragonriderGal

I don't know what you believe, so I can't see what part of the elephant you are holding on to....

I would say that I see the whole elephant as well, albeit my reality is different from yours. In my reality, your trips were hijacked and shunted into a masquerade by the daimonus of the 5th field. What you think you see is simply a ruse to blind you and keep you from seeing the truth.

So, you think you're right and I think I'm right, and there lies the quandary.

Originally posted by qisoa

Originally posted by DragonriderGal

I don't know what you believe, so I can't see what part of the elephant you are holding on to....

I would say that I see the whole elephant as well, albeit my reality is different from yours. In my reality, your trips were hijacked and shunted into a masquerade by the daimonus of the 5th field. What you think you see is simply a ruse to blind you and keep you from seeing the truth.

So, you think you're right and I think I'm right, and there lies the quandary.

edit on 22-11-2010 by qisoa because: Posted before reply was typed

Hum.. well, I know the power of the overarching sentience of the human racial unconscious. It is very capable of preventing any such hijacking. Who do you ask for protection from that ensures you aren't the one with your reality hijacked?

Originally posted by DragonriderGal

Hum.. well, I know the power of the overarching sentience of the human racial unconscious. It is very capable of preventing any such hijacking. Who do you ask for protection from that ensures you aren't the one with your reality hijacked?

When I am directly interacting with the upper fields (ninth field and up), I am under the protection of the thirteenth field entity and his agents. You could refer to him as the universal consciousness, I suppose.

The daimonus are limited to the lower fields, and although they can be subtle in their actions, their presence glares like a neon sign. They are avoidable when I have my spiritual eyes open.

Originally posted by qisoa

Originally posted by DragonriderGal

Hum.. well, I know the power of the overarching sentience of the human racial unconscious. It is very capable of preventing any such hijacking. Who do you ask for protection from that ensures you aren't the one with your reality hijacked?

When I am directly interacting with the upper fields (ninth field and up), I am under the protection of the thirteenth field entity and his agents. You could refer to him as the universal consciousness, I suppose.

The daimonus are limited to the lower fields, and although they can be subtle in their actions, their presence glares like a neon sign. They are avoidable when I have my spiritual eyes open.

So it could well be we are dealing with the same things.. only thru our own filters, eh? But the universal consciousness is too huge to really communicate with a single human. In fact that is one of the things making full enlightenment will allow us to do; actually communicate directly with the overarching sentience of the universe. It'll be awesome!

On the spiritual level, I pretty much stay in the human racial unconscious and on the higher plane though. The spirit realm is like the whole of that level of stuff, kinda like the city streets and such. The racial unconscious of each species are more like a house or library on those streets. But I can't access any other species racial unconscious, even as the overarching sentience of the human racial unconscious assures me that they can't breach ours either.

I do know that the 'demons' of the physical plane are actually aliens from the one other dimension I see existing, and they are more than happy to use the psychic level to reinforce the fear and terror humans feel when they deal with them. Most of them aren't that fond of here though because it is too cold. Also I have talked to the blues, the dracs, the greys and a few other alien presences on that level. Most of those entities can't make it to the higher plane though, where the entrance to the human racial unconscious lies.

My dragon's ally, Enos, guards my path whenever I walk in the lower plane, and I always ask for protection from both the overarching sentience of the racial unconscious and the archangel Michael (actually an elf). The elves are on our side as well, and so will provide protection in addition to what the overarching sentience provides if asked. Perhaps that is who you are dealing with as the 'agents' of said 'higher densities'? All of those agents are most likely just aliens of one sort or another.

reply to post by DragonriderGal

In response to your thread title....

That's like saying there's no energy exchange upon death. But it has to go somewhere, no matter how wisp thin our mortal abilities to describe it?

Rocket man Von Braun said 'Nature does not know extinction. All science has taught me, and continues to teach me, is that all it knows is transformation'. I am pretty sure that is his exact wording, and the meaning is correct.

I don't offer this as proof, of course, of the existence of H or H. More thought would be needed for that, or perhaps an example.

Originally posted by DragonriderGal

Originally posted by constantine70
reply to post by DragonriderGal

 

DRG, I applaud you on your steps through 'existance'. I am curious to gender identity there, are you still female?
What you have described (in the op) sounds a lot like the astral realm. Which in truth there is no heaven or hell. Now there are higher planes of existance as well as lower planes of existance. As you have mentioned, this planet (incarnation spot

) is overshadowed by beings of lower selfish vibrations.

The gnostic text from dead sea scrolls are cryptic (given arimac to english translation) but they open your eyes to who and what Yeshua reall was/is. You see truth must be added with lies or it is harder for 'sheep' to follow. Not to mention that what is written rings of truth. The teaching of Christ within is a strong one that spands all existance. No one can make another change their mind, it must be inside of them first. So I must give praise to you for your fortitude within this topic.
Please keep following which inside you know with all of your being that which is good! hint: anti selfish

Peace and Harmony through unconditional LOVE!

Thanks for your response, constantine70! And that is very right about adding a dash of truth to the big pot of lies that is christanity today. My analogy is like how low end coffee roasters add just a dash of arabica beans to the much cheaper and yucky tasting robusta beans to make the coffee more palatable.. but once you've had pure arabica coffee, you won't ever be fooled by that cheap trick again.

Unfortunately, most people are never given a chance to taste pure 'spirit realm stuff', just the cheapened and lie-laced versions religions of all sorts use to keep them under control, with only hints of true spirituality. But since most people have never really connected to the 'god' energy of the racial unconscious, they can't tell the difference, and they think they are having the true 'spiritual' experience.

And that whole 'love and light' thing must never be at the cost of who you truly are. If you have to fake it, then you have issues that need dealing with. In the whole making full enlightenment, it would be much better to be who you actually are and fix things than have to peel off the layer of pretending to be who you think you should be to seem spiritual, and THEN have to fix that level before you can work on the level underneath it. Plus if you don't want to know that lower level is still there despite how loving and unselfish you may act, then you have to deal with that whole bit of denial before you can even start working on healing the aspect of yourself that isn't about love and light.

And that whole 'love and light' thing is out of whack too. The NWO has spun all religions, even the more esoteric thought form ones... making full enlightenment is about balance; of yourself and your connection to others. If you 'lose' yourself in service to others, you won't be able to stay in the spirit/light body, because you won't 'know' who YOU are. And of course, if you don't do connection to others,. then you won't be able to tolerate the constant unrelenting connection to others being in a spirit/light body requires. The NWO has put a LOT of thought and effort into preventing us from making the shift, in part because it makes us much more aware on the spiritual level and their manipulations and ploys are much more obvious at that level.

wonderful post!! cause I have seen the 'love is all you need' or 'love and light' as you mentioned above and they seem like zombies, sometimes no better than the 'sheeple'. I have come across the teachings of Samuel AnWeur (sp) a self claimed incarnation of the Christ in this age. Not sure where he got his stuff from, but the truth is that it is all part of you within... our creator is the strongest of that which is within (kind of since all things are made from it). Thank you for this exchange, look forward to reading more of your replies!

Originally posted by constantine70
wonderful post!! cause I have seen the 'love is all you need' or 'love and light' as you mentioned above and they seem like zombies, sometimes no better than the 'sheeple'. I have come across the teachings of Samuel AnWeur (sp) a self claimed incarnation of the Christ in this age. Not sure where he got his stuff from, but the truth is that it is all part of you within... our creator is the strongest of that which is within (kind of since all things are made from it). Thank you for this exchange, look forward to reading more of your replies!

edit on 23-11-2010 by constantine70 because: grammer

Hum... when I look for the guy that was Christ, I don't see any one person clearly. I think 'he' was a compilation of individuals sort of like Paul Bunyon was. The most prominent person in that cluster is the one who was an ex-high priest of Israel. He broke the rules and revealed a lot of stuff to his follower he wasn't suppose to. The rest of the Jewish leadership decided to use him as an example of what happens when you don't follow the rules, so they set him up to be crucified. But when I follow his energy path thru the ages up to now, he is somewhere on the east coast with a jersey accent, selling cars from all I can see.

But yes, the spiritual journey is one of healing one's self, not service to others. That's where you'll find the 'god' energy... it is usually your highest self!

Originally posted by starless and bible black
reply to post by DragonriderGal

 

In response to your thread title....

That's like saying there's no energy exchange upon death. But it has to go somewhere, no matter how wisp thin our mortal abilities to describe it?

Rocket man Von Braun said 'Nature does not know extinction. All science has taught me, and continues to teach me, is that all it knows is transformation'. I am pretty sure that is his exact wording, and the meaning is correct.

I don't offer this as proof, of course, of the existence of H or H. More thought would be needed for that, or perhaps an example.

Sorry I missed your post earlier!
Yes, the energy of our spirit goes on to the next life/body. It doesn't transform much though. It stays in it's spirit mass form which then gets pulled into it's next host.