There is NO heaven OR Hell.

So before I begin, let me explain that about 8-9 years ago, I went on a shaman journey. It was my third one, and I wasn't expecting anything unusual to happen. I was just going to wander around the underworld with my power animals and see and learn what I could see and learn there.

Instead, quite unexpectedly, I ended up going to the higher plane, and talking with the old Indian fellow there. Anyway, the end result was that he told me that all I had to do was ask a question, or wonder about something and direct it towards the racial/collective unconscious, and they would send me the best answers they could find for my question.

Since that time, I have been getting all sorts of information about stuff, the history of the world in particular, since that is of interest to me. It is really pretty cool although others sometimes think I am a total nut case. *shrug* Oh well, maybe that is why I was the one they connected to the racial unconscious. I don't really let other people influence me unnecessarily, and in this case, I know what I know, no matter what other people may be able to accept or believe. As always, I say believe what you will or not.

Having said that, I will proceed with my observations about Heaven and Hell.

First and foremost, what I see is that the NWO bunch aka the illuminati aka the ex-high priests of Israel aka a whole lot of other abusive and suppressive organizations over the millinia (including the top leaders of the Nazi movement in Germany), have been here since almost the beginning of humanity's sentience. They were brought here and promised ownership of us as part of the payment for managing us.

With that awareness in mind, I can very clearly see how the NWO bunch has written every major religion in the world with the plan of enslaving us; making us more controllable, especially when it comes to our anger. We humans are very dangerous when angry and also quite intelligent and wicked in finding ways to protect ourselves if they are threatening to kill us and our loved ones or get our revenge if we feel we have been too badly abused or they have killed the ones we love.

So they dreamed up Christianity with all the control elements they thought it would take to control the more independent thinkers of Europe, but still with ties to Judaism so they could count on using the adherents of this new religion by making them identify and feel obligated to Judaism, although really, even in their fabricated story, the jewish people were the ones who killed 'jesus'.

But remember, all these NWO yahoos want is to spin you and control you so the religion doesn't have to make sense, it just has to be successful in spinning you into feeling what they want you to feel and doing what you are told; mostly that being not get angry when abused; just take it on the cheek and then offer the other cheek. OOOOhhh the NWO loves it when Christians (and any other group of humans controlled by any other religion with the exact same tenant of 'don't fight back' and 'let them kill you before you respond in anger and hurt them first'; which is a total give away NWO trademark) let them abuse the hell out of them and not even try to fight back. *shakes head*

And the NWO has been sooo sucessful at spinning 'peace' and 'love' as the only 'true' indicators of spiritual 'superoritiy' that it has almost been accepted as TRUTH. Of course since they are creating all the new religious or spiritual movements, or infiltrating and corrupting any new one they didn't invent, it is easy to see why that distortion of spiritual advancement has been consistant across the millinia.

When in fact, if you are truly spiritually mature, you can use your anger appropriately, just like any other emotion. It is equally valuable for your well being as joy is, other than you would probably take these NWO yahoos out and hang 'em from a tree for all the horrid things they have done to us humans over these many thousands of years. Just what they are doing their dangest to prevent. And that is why, and ONLY why being angry (appropriate or not) is considered evil and of the devil or unacceptable for a spiritually 'evolved' person to 'allow' in themselves.

Ok, so now heaven and hell. They created those concepts as control tools to keep people acting the way they want them to act, period. If you act 'right', you get to go to heaven; and always coincidentally what is 'right' is defined by the priests and dogma of the 'religion' and everyone else must have 'faith' that their priests and dogma is telling them the truth about stuff, and are never allowed to question the information even if it seems counter-intuitive.

And of course Hell was created as a reason to always want to do right so you don't end up going there 'for eternity!' Here the NWO realllllly take advantage of us not being able to remember past lives. They know they have a LOT more power over us if we are desperate and afraid of what will happen to us when we die after 60 or so short years, so they pretty much have kept that awareness of past lives from us and put people in the loony bin or burned them at the stake who tended to remember. That way they could keep their stranglehold on us thru the fear of the afterlife.

So you have the typical 'carrot and stick' set up here with heaven and hell. But since the NWO bunch are perfectly aware that neither actually exist, they can act as they wish because they know where they are really going, ie into their next lives. And for other assorted reasons, which would take up a lot of space here, they also have no karma due for this bad behavior until 2012, when our racial/collective unconscious's contract with them expires. That is why they act so evil and don't seem ever to take a fall for it. But when that karma comes due, oh yah, that's gonna hurt. It will really suck to be a NWO leader or flunkie.

So essentially what I am saying is if you really think Heaven and Hell are real, Open your eyes! Look at how they are spinning you so they can count you as part of the 80% of humanity they need to prove they have enslaved, which will mean they met their part of the bargin and so no karma will ever be due (and humanity is soooooo screwed). I would really prefer that didn't happen, eh???? And you should too, because if they succeed, welcome back to the dark ages. When this bunch ran the catholic church during the dark ages, that to them was life at its finest. A few really wealthy and powerful, and the rest of us peons, slaves and worse to be abused tortured, killed, maimed, whatever the few powerful feel like doing, with NO repercussions.

Heaven and Hell were not such well-defined ideas in early Christian theology. The idea of rreincarnation leading up to the day of judgement was not fully exised from biblical texts until the middle ages, but it first began to go out of favour with the Romans.

Some reading on the concept:
www.near-death.com...
www.powerattunements.com...

The modern bible has had nearly all the parts pertaining to reincarnation exised, but a few remain. These are contradicted by other verses, now, and the overall result is the current Christian doctrine.

It is pretty obvious to me that a poulation that believes it has one chance to achieve a state of grace is going to be much easier to control than one which thinks it has many more chances to get it right.

Have you ever partaken of Ayahuasca on your shamanic journeys?

Originally posted by Karilla
Heaven and Hell were not such well-defined ideas in early Christian theology. The idea of rreincarnation leading up to the day of judgement was not fully exised from biblical texts until the middle ages, but it first began to go out of favour with the Romans.

Some reading on the concept:
www.near-death.com...
www.powerattunements.com...

The modern bible has had nearly all the parts pertaining to reincarnation exised, but a few remain. These are contradicted by other verses, now, and the overall result is the current Christian doctrine.

It is pretty obvious to me that a poulation that believes it has one chance to achieve a state of grace is going to be much easier to control than one which thinks it has many more chances to get it right.

Have you ever partaken of Ayahuasca on your shamanic journeys?

Yes, the NWO bunch were tinkering with Christianity for hundreds of years, trying to hone it to the most effective control tool possible. They do argue amoungst themselves, luckily for us humans, and consequently some of the things they wanted to do got left undone, because the timeframe went past that such manipulations coulc be made. Of course, as long as we humans didn't have the printing press, they could keep manipulating the bible. Once a printed version of it got out, it became way too easy for us to see their attempts to change stuff.

And that is their thinking exactly. If they know we humans think it isn't much of a big deal to die, then we are going to be more desperate to be told what to do. The religions that do have reincarnation in them, have been carefully arranged so that the punishment is the next life if you screw up, which isn't true either. But the NWO had a hand in all the religions on this planet, so the underlying need for control is in all of them.

And no, I don't do any kind of drugs except an occasional marigretta! So the journey was done via the drumming only.

[edit on 23-9-2009 by DragonriderGal]

Originally posted by Karilla
Have you ever partaken of Ayahuasca on your shamanic journeys?

I would think so, i doubt he could go into a higher plane of dimension without the help of the rituals, enthenogen, drumming.

Originally posted by Maddogkull

Originally posted by Karilla
Have you ever partaken of Ayahuasca on your shamanic journeys?

I would think so, i doubt he could go into a higher plane of dimension without the help of the rituals, enthenogen, drumming.

So what part of DragonriderGal implies male to you? Tsk, tsk. Skimming again, weren't you!? *lol*
Nope, only the drumming was necessary for my journey.

Edit to add:
Part of that is because of the rising energy of the earth right now. It is making that kind of thing a lot more accessable.

[edit on 23-9-2009 by DragonriderGal]

See if there is a branch of the Santo Daime church operating near you. They will do guided Ayahuasca sessions. It's the direct route, although it's too much for some to handle. It utilises the spirit molecule, the substance that mitigates our transition from cell to embryo, from embryo to child, and from Human to dust.

[edit on 23-9-2009 by Karilla]

Originally posted by Karilla
See if there is a branch of the Santo Daime church operating near you. They will do guided Ayahuasca sessions. It's the direct route, although it's too much for some to handle. It utilises the spirit molecule, the substance that mitigates our transition from cell to embryo, from embryo to child, and from Human to dust.

[edit on 23-9-2009 by Karilla]

That sounds very interesting! But since that last time, I actually don't need to do the journeys anymore. (Every time I have tried since then, I just fall asleep.) It is almost like I have DSL to the racial/collective unconscious nowadays. I do go visit at nite sometimes before I go to sleep, and dig around as I feel inclined, but mostly the information comes to me in little mini-movies that play out in my mind's eye or in an 'aha' manner the information just pops into my head.

Starred and Flagged! Good post, DragonriderGal, you are a woman after my own heart. I too think Heaven and Hell are inventions of organized religion and is controlled by Illuminati and fourth dimensional beings. Religious dogma is for control of a people, and a way to make money, and it works too, and has been working for years. Some at least are waking up to the lies of religion anyway. Great post, needed to be said, cudos!

off course there is no heaven and hell ...

one thing to say ... religion is something we need to stay away ... every single one of us need to make our own belief

Ok, you die and come back and tell me what's really going on. Until then, don't bother making these threads, no one is going to change their minds; you have no proof AT ALL

i'm thinking this would be a good exm. of whom you are
refering to. notice the ruling classes, who sit while the politician does their biding for them.
this is what is coming down the pipe as we speak.it's not about money power
territory. sacrifice is what it is about.human sacrifice



[edit on 23-9-2009 by randyvs]

if you can do what is said, direct your question as to whether "the man who bore the label of Christ" is in fact the son of the almighty creator. did your "shamanistic journey" include mind altering substances '___'/'___'/Mescaline? not *pro-drug* just serious question

""There is NO heaven OR Hell!""
Nah I wouldn't put money on that being the case!

reply to post by DragonriderGal


Haha sorry typo "she" And yes you caught me there might of been alittle bit of skimming

An old Zen tale about heaven and hell:


Nobushige, a great samurai, sought out the Zen Master Hakuin and asked: "Is there really a heaven and a hell?"

"Who are you?" asked Hakuin.

"I am a samurai," Nobushige replied.

"You?" Hakuin snorted. "What lord would employ you? You look like a begger!"

A furious Nobushige began to draw his sword, but then Hakuin said, "Here open the gates of hell."

Nobushige took the point, sheathed his sword, and bowed.

"Here open the gates of heaven," said Hakuin.

I agree with the No Hell part

Why there is No Hell

On Heaven I disagree, God and the angels live in heaven, so it's pretty hard to say it doesn't exist.

If you mean humans aren't going there like they aren't going to hell, your so close to being correct I will agree with that.
When you consider all the humans that have lived and died so few have gone up that it's not worth disagreeing on.

So there is no Heaven or Hell eh? And this revelation is from someone who goes on shaman journeys??!!



Heaven and Hell are both very real. Whether you choose to believe in them or not is your choice, but your opinion won't count for anything when faced with the reality of one or the other.

Like standing on the top of a building, believing you can fly - the reality of gravity will take over despite your belief.

I suspect that if you deny both, you do not believe in the saving power of Jesus Christ, so as a consequence, you will be going to Hell irrespective of whether you believe in it or not.

Satan is doing a great job of convincing the gullable that Heaven and Hell do not exist.

There is still time though. Repent of your sins, turn to Christ, and pray that the Holy Spirit will open your eyes to the truth of the Bible. I know this will cause some to mock, but I promise, Jesus will not fail you.

Originally posted by Karilla
Heaven and Hell were not such well-defined ideas in early Christian theology. The idea of rreincarnation leading up to the day of judgement was not fully exised from biblical texts until the middle ages, but it first began to go out of favour with the Romans.

Some reading on the concept:
www.near-death.com...
www.powerattunements.com...

The modern bible has had nearly all the parts pertaining to reincarnation exised, but a few remain. These are contradicted by other verses, now, and the overall result is the current Christian doctrine.

It is pretty obvious to me that a poulation that believes it has one chance to achieve a state of grace is going to be much easier to control than one which thinks it has many more chances to get it right.

Have you ever partaken of Ayahuasca on your shamanic journeys?

Hi Karilla/
You are wrong about life after death not being accepted in the Old Testament.
It was accepted by many of the prophets in the Old Testaments and not a new concept as you say!
Reincarnation was never accepted by the early Christian Church as Scripture truth...
I don't see it, or understand how people who dont want to believe in God, or accept the fact that ,there is a God, can say that Christiniaty enslaves someone!
''How does Christinity enslave''?
Does it not teach perfect morals?
Do good to others, even if they do bad to you?
How can that be enslavement?
To me, it shows forgiveness and Love.
How can that be considered controlling?
........................................................................................................
Hi DragonriderGal///

So before I begin, let me explain that about 8-9 years ago, I went on a shaman journey

You say Heaven and hell is totally N.W.O originated,yes?
And you also give your opinion as to why you believe it is made up.
So why is Shamanism any different to Christinity?
To be fair here, Has not someone else also, made up shamanism and it's purpose for which you chose to follow?

And of course Hell was created as a reason to always want to do right so you don't end up going there 'for eternity!' Here the NWO realllllly take advantage of us not being able to remember past lives.

Christianity does not tell you or preach to you that they have the power to send you to hell or heaven....neither does it control you or anyone else on how to live your life!
The path of which you choose to follow is that of your own choice, not someone who lives on earth.
Eternity is forever.....God alone judges!
If past lives is as you say truth,and it has been hidden from us,
then how exactly does it help you or anyone else?
What exactly does it offer you to know past life information?
So, let's say you were a murderer in the past life, does that mean you wont become one now?
Or is it simply good to know that you will alter your life in this life somehow with better choices?
How does it make you any different to who you are now?


As for the O.P heading....
...''There is NO Heaven and Hell''..isn't that your opinion given by a shamanistic journey that you alone experienced?
Why is this so different to other beliefs?

Instead, quite unexpectedly, I ended up going to the higher plane, and talking with the old Indian fellow there. Anyway, the end result was that he told me that all I had to do was ask a question, or wonder about something and direct it towards the racial/collective unconscious, and they would send me the best answers they could find for my question.

Since that time, I have been getting all sorts of information about stuff, the history of the world in particular, since that is of interest to me.
It is really pretty cool although others sometimes think I am a total nut case. *shrug* Oh well, maybe that is why I was the one they connected to the racial unconscious.

Asking questions to who?
Isn't that similar to people believing in that God talks to them alone and that they have been chosen?
Why is your journet considered to be different?


ICXC NIKA
helen

Originally posted by autowrench
Starred and Flagged! Good post, DragonriderGal, you are a woman after my own heart. I too think Heaven and Hell are inventions of organized religion and is controlled by Illuminati and fourth dimensional beings. Religious dogma is for control of a people, and a way to make money, and it works too, and has been working for years. Some at least are waking up to the lies of religion anyway. Great post, needed to be said, cudos!

Ah thanks, autowrench! I just want to help people see and hopefully buy out of being controlled by all that tripe. *blah*

Yes, the concepts and religion in general is sooooooooo invented, and only for control. Nothing to do with finding god or even getting more advanced spiritually!

And boy howdy, does it make them money! And for nothing more than a promise of 'heaven' and an occasional 'fire and brimstone' lecture. Sheeesh.

And I agree, thank goodness people are starting to awaken from the lies. One hopes that they don't then just jump into one of the new age creeds that the NWO has corrupted and turned into another version of lies, meant to spin those who are sick of the old-style 'religions'.

[edit on 24-9-2009 by DragonriderGal]

Originally posted by Faiol
off course there is no heaven and hell ...

one thing to say ... religion is something we need to stay away ... every single one of us need to make our own belief

Indeed. I think jesus (if he actually existed which I kinda doubt) said "I am the way the truth the light..." What he actually meant, I'm pretty sure, was each of us is our own way truth and light. But leave it to yahoos 100+ years later to mess that up as they wrote down what jesus supposedly said. *shrug*