Nasa To Reveal New Scientific Findings About The Moon

reply to post by zorgon

No.
I'm saying you distorted what was actually said (surprise).

posted by Zorgon
lake a small lake... 100sq kilometers 50 feet deep FROZEN with dirt in it

Does not equal:

So it's not a sheet or a pond. It's not an ice rink on the moon. It's basically ice mixed into the dirt.

He did not say there is a frozen lake with dirt in it. He said there are ice particles in the dirt.


The statement about the lake was the answer to a question about the total volume of water which might be found in the area.




There is no lake.

Q: So it's incorrect to talk of one pond or one lake...

A: Right.

Q: You really see what could be a variety of...

A: In fact if you look over at one of the images, this is actually hinted at from the ground. People actually had measured this on the ground and seen little speckly areas. They couldn't go through the angle because you can't measure the angle from the ground because you're all at one point. They see little speckly areas all around this crater. This is right at the South Pole. So what was suggested is by doing this bistatic measurement we saw the very highly angular dependence of it, and that is very characteristic of something like ice.

[edit on 9/24/2009 by Phage]

This means we're that much closer to having McDonalds, Starbucks and CVS on the moon!!!

Originally posted by StonyJ
This means we're that much closer to having McDonalds, Starbucks and CVS on the moon!!!

Yeah

Goes right next to the Lunar Hilton






A little pricey though...

Lunar Hilton and Orbital Hilton, Luna

Phase One: 3 Story 100 Room Underground - Began 1967 with Press release
Phase Two: 5,000 Rom Luxury Hotel under Glass Dome
Drawings Complete March 1998 Peter Inston
Initial Investment for Phase Two: 300,000.00
Capacity in Final Phase: 5000 Beds
Support: A school, a hospital and a multi denominational church
Features: Sand beaches on artificial moon lakes, hotel internal water Recycling system
Final Phase Completion: 2050
Class: Luxury Hotel - Lunar Hilton Hotel
Price: Special offer for one week: $25,000 Euro (Transportation Extra)

www.thelivingmoon.com...


Seems Barron Hilton knew about the water at the pole

"Chairman of the US company Hilton Hotels, Barron Hilton (not Baron Hilton) at a space conference in 1967. The optimistic "Can do" spirit that existed in the US space industry in those days during the build-up to Apollo 11 is particularly notable. That discussion continued in the press for a few years, with senior NASA figures making speeches about the possibility of ordinary people being able to buy trips to space. But it faded away as the space shuttle project was begun and almost everyone waited, relying on that to reduce launch costs. The speech is made more notable by the announcement early in 1998 by Hilton International (a British company) of their plans for a "Lunar Hilton" - using water from the polar ice to make an artificial beach. "

www.spacefuture.com...

"Entrance to the Lunar Hilton will be on the surface of the moon, but most of the Hilton will be situated beneath the surface - say 20 to 30 feet - to establish constant temperature controls and a more workable hotel area. The experiments of [4] Surveyor Three seem to indicate that excavations on the moon are possible and that the moon soil might be used for construction. The Hilton will have three levels. At the bottom mechanical equipment will be housed. The center level will consist of two 400 foot guest corridors crossing in the middle core. These corridors will contain 100 guest rooms. The top level will be used for public space. Off the dining room we will place necessary machines and storage areas. To start with we will have only three floors, which will eliminate elevators and minimize power requirements. The multi-storied underground hotel will come later. But - and this is very important - in almost every respect the Lunar Hilton will be physically like an earth Hilton."

- Barron Hilton, 1967, "Hotels in Space", Based on Preprint AAS 67-126, 1967 AAS Conference Proceedings.

www.spacefuture.com...



[edit on 24-9-2009 by zorgon]

Originally posted by Phage

No.
I'm saying you distorted what was actually said (surprise).

Not true Man Speak with forked tongue...

But he said LAKE A Dirty LAKE



He did say those other things too but he said LAKE His words not mine no distortion Screen capture of exact wording from document

But how did Barron Hilton know there was water there to put that into his Hotel Plan? Enough to make a fake beach

That's awesome

Hilton on the Moon !!! I wanna win a trip there.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Telos

 

They said there is a lake? They said there is a large amount of water in a particular location? I must have missed that part of the press conference.

16 ounces of water in one ton of soil (that's the highest concentration) sounds like a small amount of water spread over a large area. That ton of soil is a very thin layer.

There is no lake. There is a small amount of water material (which may not even be water) widely spread over the surface.

Sounds familiar.


[edit on 9/24/2009 by Phage]

Phage... you tried to play dirty. During the conference the second scientist said there was anywhere from a quart to a liter... a quart being 16 ounces and a liter being 33.8 ounces. Therefore, it could be double what the minimal is. Yes, in my post on the other thread I went by the 16 ounces because I wanted to point out that even at minimum, 16 ounces per ton of dirt (which is NOTHING at all) is a lot. A liter per ton of dirt is enough to provide plant-life. You ever been to the desert?

Yes, the fourth scientist (Was he also the first? I don't think so...) brought up the water bottle that was half-full as if demonstrating that it wasn't much water. (Nice trick, dork, but it didn't fool me.) And then he went on to say that it was 16 ounces per one thousand pounds. Not a ton. Therefore, the max concentration that they are talking about (which is still a lie) is 33.8 ounces, or as they say, 32 ounces per ton of dirt.

They also said that there was more water in the craters. Not the craters at the poles but the craters on the rest of the Moon. This would suggest that the further you dig the more water there is.

We have known that there may have been water in the permenately shadowed craters at the poles, that is not new. It's the water on the rest of the Moon that is unexpected and they say that those craters (not the ones at the poles) have higher concentrations. Why do you think that is?

Also I'm wondering why Phage doesn't think water is important unless it is liquid? We can use frozen ice for all the same things we would use liquid water for... We just melt it.

And how much water do you really think a small outpost the size of say the spacestation would really require? I'm sure you could probably even link the official data. I imagine 6-8 people wouldn't need anything the size of a lake... or a small lake... or a well you get the point.

I wonder how much water an operation like this would produce?



[edit on 24-9-2009 by fieryjaguarpaw]

[edit on 24-9-2009 by fieryjaguarpaw]

reply to post by fieryjaguarpaw


Don't get me wrong. I think Phage is intelligent.

And Phage wants to discredit the possibility for liquid water because liquid water would prove the existence of an atmosphere.

The moon is either real hot or real cold...therefore, water is either frozen or evaporated.

BUT, here is a teeny-weeny little problem people seem to not think about...

Those scientists with that stupid slide-show of images, tried to tell us that they believe one of the possibilities, and the only one they proposed, is that the moon during local noon releases all its water but is being blasted by charge Hydrogen. Then, by evening, the moon starts to basically coalesce this water again. Mind you, not in liquid form... in solid state. So... either it hails 24 hours a day on the moon and the hail is literally in liquid form for no more than a few minutes in the early morning until it is hot enough that it boils straight away and THEN it rains on the moon in the late evening but the rain droplets turn straight away into ice before they even hit the dirt...

(Mind you, they try to claim this ice came from comets, but, you GENIUSES seem to forget that it gets -hot- during the day on the moon. Erm... we all passed chemistry, right?)

OR

The moon has an atmosphere.

OH my god. Is that so frickin' hard to imagine? REALLY?! Just because you were born and told a bunch of things... that you think there couldn't be an atmosphere?

Holy moley. You people. You came to ATS. You - Came - To - ATS.

IF YOU HAVE BEEN TO THE MOON YOURSELF, say, "Hi." Otherwise, start thinking and really paying attention instead of trying to GET attention while looking so smart.

I came to learn, not drool.

reply to post by fieryjaguarpaw


Well.. I don't know how big those machines are supposed to be.

But, for example, if those machines are about the size of your average excavating vehicle, each of those shovels would probably hold about a ton.

As we've already been -told-, a ton of dirt could produce at the very least 16 ounces of water. Therefore, Each of those shovels could be drained to make a small bottle of your favorite Lunar Springs water (Dibs on the patent).

And you can see just how large the moon is being presented compared to those machines. Imagine how many bottles of water. Holy moley. I'm so glad I am gonna patent that term.

reply to post by fieryjaguarpaw

Please show me where I said water (in any form) is unimportant. I don't recall saying anything of the sort.

[edit on 9/24/2009 by Phage]

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Gorbash

 

There is no lake. There is a small amount of water material (which may not even be water) widely spread over the surface. If it is water, it is most likely in the form of ice.

[edit on 9/24/2009 by Phage]

Well here is one quote that makes me think you don't think it's important unless it's liquid.

I'm pretty sure there are others but I'm not going to reread all three threads on this one topic (or are there four threads about this now)

reply to post by fieryjaguarpaw

All is was doing was correcting an incorrect statement. Any other interpretation of what I said was yours and was incorrect. I am surprised and happy about this confirmation of other data.

The upper layers of lunar soil have a density of around 1,000 kg/m3 (about the same as dry, lumpy clay). So a ton would be volume of about .9 of a cubic meter. The depth of the data returned by M3 spectrometer was about 1-2 millimeters. So in order to obtain 1 quart of water from those upper 1-2 millimeters (we don't know of there is more, or less water below that), you would need to scrape an area of 900 square meters. In American terms,9687 square feet, that's to the 20 yard line. Somebody check my math, please.

That's not a lot of water by Earth standards by by lunar standards it's very surprising. That's why this announcement was a big deal, even if it isn't liquid water. This represents the average concentration found in the polar regions. There is reason to believe it is higher within shadowed craters in the polar region. It is a small amount of water but there could be more, deeper or in the craters.

There is still another "but". What was actually detected could be water, or it could be a hydroxl compound. I think it was water.

[edit on 9/25/2009 by Phage]

Hmm just thinking here... If NASA's idea of this water being created every day on the surface of the Moon is correct then couldnt we just mine the same spot day after day?

Could we just mine the soil, extract the water, put the soil back and then dig it right back up again?

Sounds silly but if the NASA theory is correct then it would work wouldn't it?

reply to post by fieryjaguarpaw

You might not even have to "mine" it. Depending on what its source is, maybe some sort of "distiller" arrangement could be set up. Put a cover with chilled condenser coils over an area, heat the regolith..viola? Move on to another area.


Wait, forget I said that! I'm calling my patent attorney.

[edit on 9/25/2009 by Phage]

reply to post by Phage


Now this is the kinda thinking I've been waiting to see.

Scraping nearly 2 miles for that amount of dirt would seem insane...

This is a little more proof to support the fact that those scientists were totally demeaning the entire idea. That's like telling a civilization on another world, "There are ants on earth, but it's so hard to tell, we think there are probably trillions of them, but that's only in the top 1 to 2 mm of dirt. Or they could just be in the form of ant-heads. Ant-heads need ant-bodies of course, but we'll just assume safely that these are ant-heads. There could be more, there could be less. Setting up facilities with fully functional ant-plumbing and ant-showers is still dreaming a bit. I mean, ants only crawl over the entire planet. They're everywhere. They BUILD things. IT's crazy. You have got to see these guys. No, but really. Yeah, we can't see them from space - we can't even see them with our rovers. We see all these tall tree-ish looking things that move around almost in an orderly fashion sometimes... but we really should go over the data a little more. Aliens? Psh... Heh.. Aliens. BOO! Hahaha. Yeah, um... no."

reply to post by TarzanBeta

They are geologists not engineers. The engineers will get their chance.

It never ceases to amaze me how NASA can make science of discovery so incredibly boring!

The must have a department at NASA that monitors the bore factor "Oh the sheeple are getting overstimulated so lets ramp up the Bore-O-Meter!"

[edit on 25-9-2009 by MOTT the HOOPLE]

reply to post by MOTT the HOOPLE

Yeah, I know.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by TarzanBeta


nice Post man!!!




Mod Note: One Line Post – Please Review This Link.

[edit on Fri Sep 25 2009 by Jbird]

Originally posted by TarzanBeta
A liter per ton of dirt is enough to provide plant-life.

Do you have any reference for that? Thanks in advance.

So... either it hails 24 hours a day on the moon and the hail is literally in liquid form for no more than a few minutes in the early morning until it is hot enough that it boils straight away and THEN it rains on the moon in the late evening but the rain droplets turn straight away into ice before they even hit the dirt...

I think you are forgetting that a day on the Moon is almost 28 Earth days (27 days 7 hours 43.2 minutes, according to Wikipedia)

OH my god. Is that so frickin' hard to imagine? REALLY?! Just because you were born and told a bunch of things... that you think there couldn't be an atmosphere?

No, because an atmosphere would be visible, at least by refracting the light in a different way. Haven't you seen images of the Earth from space, in which we can see the atmosphere around the Earth? In any planet that has an atmosphere that atmosphere changes the light that passes through it, I think it's Mars Express that has an experiment on board that uses the light from the stars seen through Mars' atmosphere to analyse the atmosphere's composition.

PS: I haven't seen or read the press-conference, that's why I am not commenting on what was said.