An Intro To Anarchism

Originally posted by platipus
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

i could care less about ur rants on the way i type over a forum community.
no big deal. i bet u get irritated when ur fingernail is broken.

[edit on 7-10-2009 by platipus]

Hmm, a hypocrite eh?

Also i don't remember ranting, could you be so kind as to quote one of my rants about anarchism please?

I don't get irritated at much these days, let alone broken fingernails (i chew them).

Could you also do me a favour, either contribute something for or against your arguement, because up to now i'm thinking you don't really know what you're talkin about, instead you seem to be 'baiting' and resorting to childish mud-slinging.

Thankyou.

Originally posted by platipus
reply to post by titorite

 

i do that ty very much.

Apparently not. Capitalize the first word of each sentence, dot the ends of sentences, all that Kindergarten stuff is a rule here. Chat speak to the excess is against the rules.

As far as anarcho-syndicalism and Noam Chomsky I think Murray Rothbard said it the best.

"Scratch a left-wing “anarchist” and you will find a coercive egalitarian despot who makes the true lover of freedom yearn even for Richard Nixon in contrast."

One just has to ask themselves, is anarchy about being free, or about being a utopia?

reply to post by DINSTAAR


I think living free could possibly be a utopia in itself, like you said before:

No government and its rules govern the way I interact with these people. I treat them with respect because I know it is in my best interest to do so.

Based on my own experiances this is how most people are, they do not need someone else to make them respect others it is just the way they are.
That is what would need to be relied apon in an anarchistic society, yes their are bad people out there but there are many more people who want to live peacefully and happily.

Sometimes, an enlightened egalitarian despot seems like the next best alternative. Anyone read Plato's Republic?

"philosophers must become kings…or those now called kings must…genuinely and adequately philosophize"

reply to post by sicklecell

Based on my own experiances this is how most people are, they do not need someone else to make them respect others it is just the way they are. That is what would need to be relied apon in an anarchistic society, yes their are bad people out there but there are many more people who want to live peacefully and happily.

Agreed. Bad people can do bad things, but give them a legal monopoly of the initiation of violence (government) and bad people can do bad things on a much larger scale. I don't think Hitler could have perpetrated his terrible acts without a monopoly on the use of force in Germany, at least, he couldn't have done them in the scale.
This is a fundamental flaw of statist arguments. If governments are necessary to prevent bad people from doing bad things, who can stop bad governments from doing bad things. One has to remember that the government is made up of people, not altruistic gods and are as capable as the rest of humanity for evil.

Also, governments inflict harm on people at a distance. This dehumanizes the experience of killing someone and turns it into a plausible political tactic in the modern world.

reply to post by DINSTAAR


Yes but if it is not on a single larger scale effort, it could be on many small scale efforts.

Plus, anarchism would more than likely end up falling into a direct democracy.
But it sucks then too because when the majority doesn't know whats best for them, it will still sink...(America).

Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist
reply to post by DINSTAAR

 

Yes but if it is not on a single larger scale effort, it could be on many small scale efforts.

Plus, anarchism would more than likely end up falling into a direct democracy.
But it sucks then too because when the majority doesn't know whats best for them, it will still sink...(America).

Did it ever occur to you that what is best your may also be best for me?

One thing nobody ever had before was the internet.

When you need to educate your self you have more than just wiki...You have the whole of the net.

We can ask questions on Yahoo answers, research topics here on ATS, Educate ourselves on a variety of online encyclopedias. In this day and age we have this tool that nobody before us had, this internet.

I vote for taxes how about you? You like Roads, public schools, Libraries, and other good public works? I know I do.

How about the war in Afghanistan? Have you been given good reasons as to why we are still there? Has torturing people in Guantanamo created more terrorists? Should these things be done away with yet? Maybe we should vote on it.

In this day and age the internet has changed the dynamics of human interaction and maybe for the first time a direct democracy would not be a bad idea....

Granted I could accept a combination of ideas... but just something that allows you and I a voice in the system would be enough.. it would be a start for me.

When you trust another to speak for you the other will say things you never intended to be spoken let alone adhered to.

InfoShop

This site goes really deep on the theory of Anarchism for anyone that is interested.

I'm quite surprised with this thread. I didn't know there were people on ATS who have adopted Anarchism considering all the slander against it from politicians, schools and the media. But then again, ATS's motto is "Deny Ignorance", so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

Great thread OP. Star and flag.

EDIT: I just realized Mr. Lizard already posted a link to the same web site.




[edit on 25-10-2009 by Striker122]

Originally posted by Striker122
InfoShop

This site goes really deep on the theory of Anarchism for anyone that is interested.

I'm quite surprised with this thread. I didn't know there were people on ATS who have adopted Anarchism considering all the slander against it from politicians, schools and the media. But then again, ATS's motto is "Deny Ignorance", so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

Great thread OP. Star and flag.

EDIT: I just realized Mr. Lizard already posted a link to the same web site.




[edit on 25-10-2009 by Striker122]

Thanks.

I didn't expect many supporters of it either.

reply to post by Phlynx




So on a site that discusses conspiracies, cover-ups, and general distaste for the current system we live under, it seemed unlikely that people with anarchist tendencies would not be present.

I guess to me, these ideas seemed too anti-establishment to not be included on ATS.

Originally posted by DINSTAAR
reply to post by Phlynx

 

So on a site that discusses conspiracies, cover-ups, and general distaste for the current system we live under, it seemed unlikely that people with anarchist tendencies would not be present.

I guess to me, these ideas seemed too anti-establishment to not be included on ATS.

Yep, precisely.

reply to post by DINSTAAR


That was a good question. I don't believe anarchism as a philosophy seeks anything Utopian, because at the very base of the philosophy are questions that are directly aimed at the individual, not the collective. There is no question of what is best for everyone or what suits the greater good. There is only what is best for the individual, and that is to be free to pursue his own interests without interfering in the interests of others. That is my understanding. But that seems to be the problem, Anarchism is different things to different people, even Anarchists themselves.

If you asked the average Joe here in the USA or anywhere else for that matter what they believe the definition of Anarchism is, they would tell you chaos or having no government or some variation thereof. But that is not true, if you think about the forces that would govern an Anarchist society in theory it would simply be market forces. Mutually beneficial exchanges between consenting individuals or entities.

reply to post by ludaChris


People are selfish in general, the individuals needs will always overshadow the needs of others, but in an anarchistic society i think people would quickly realize that helping others would further their own agenda, and to help themselves they would need to help others (unless they have an underground shelter with a life time supply of food) simply to survive, through methods like community farming and permaculture.

Every man for themself would turn into every man for their community for themself.

But doing things like this you could run the risk of needing to create 'rules' for your little community thus defeating the purpose of an anarchistic society.

It is a very interesting subject.

Originally posted by sicklecell
reply to post by ludaChris

 

People are selfish in general, the individuals needs will always overshadow the needs of others, but in an anarchistic society i think people would quickly realize that helping others would further their own agenda, and to help themselves they would need to help others (unless they have an underground shelter with a life time supply of food) simply to survive, through methods like community farming and permaculture.

Every man for themself would turn into every man for their community for themself.

But doing things like this you could run the risk of needing to create 'rules' for your little community thus defeating the purpose of an anarchistic society.

It is a very interesting subject.

Yes, I have thought of this as well before. But I sincerely believe that mutually beneficial relationships, and the demands of harder times that would be required for such a society to come into being would not overshadow, but mesh with our more innate survival instincts. And trickle up from the individual to the community. Humans tend to group with other humans, and our collective experiences shape our views on society. After our next big 'collective experience' with the state and its sadistic shenanigans I am inclined to think many peoples views will change radically.

I do agree that 'rules' certainly would come up and there should be rules, but those would only stem from the base principle of the Anarchist society that the initiating force is wrong, in any way, shape, or form. This, possibly oversimplified, principle can be applied to any aspect of our relationships and lives.

Ahhh, I can not convey how thrilled I am to see such a topic as this discussed on ATS.

I am excited by how many people on here speak of 'Anarchism' with such 'authority' while even those who profess to be agreeable to anarchism have very different, opposing interpretations of it.

I certainly consider myself an anarchist but I dont want to try to impress upon you that I know what anarchism is. I think so many things mentioned in this thread deserve a thread to themselves. I could, and have (infoshop) gone on and on about my ideals but I will try to keep it 'short' here, until more is warranted.

I have been living almost half my life now as what many may refer to as a 'lifestyle anarchist', trying to live and fight for the change I want to see as much as I can. I spent many years traveling the U.S. and Europe involved in many anarchist communities and the community at large both urban and rural. I have been to many, many protests and 'actions' of all scales and I have also lived for extended periods of time deep in the 'bush' at a 'survival' nearly Iron Age level and I have also just moved from homesteading in very rural kentucky completely off the grid without any electricity or running water. So before anyone pulls the 'all talk' or 'live it and then talk' BS they should think about their words before just shouting them out (wow, that goes for many other instances on this thread too huh).

Again, I must convey that I am not trying to put myself in a position to have any kind of authoritative word on anarchism. This thread exemplifies my point perfectly; if we here have so many different opinions on what anarchism is than how can it really be anything that is concrete or known? anyway thats a whole other Robert A.W. type approach.

The statements made about 'isms' in general are relevant but I believe anarchism may be an exception. Unlike the other forms of political 'isms', anarchism is not merely just another method of 'systematic organization' as other political isms are. Anarchisms encompasses so many other levels than just a methodology to organizing society.

Anarchism is not just the rejection of government, anarchism is the rejection of ALL authority. To be an anarchist is not just to reject anyones attempts to be an authority over you but, to be an anarchist is to you, yourself, reject being an authority unto ANYONE or as many people believe, ANYTHING else.

Because of this, anarchism dives deeply in to our social relationships. To approach your life anarchistically is to examine yourself and to see if and when you coercively or oppressively act towards others and to actively try to correct this.

There are two types of authority. The authority that says 'no' or 'you must' or 'you cant' and then there is the authority you express when you push someone out of the way of an oncoming car.

Continued.....

Anarchism is about consensus, making sure everyone and/or everything that is affected by a decision mutually agrees on the decision being made. Like I said before, anarchism rejects all forms of authority, oppression and repression. Anarchism is against anything that gets in the way of equality. My interpretation of anti-authoritarianism dictates that in order to be conducive to egalitarianism, our methods of producing and acquiring 'products' must be based on mutual aid, community and a gift economy.

Being without authoritarians means a whole life change. It means a whole lot more self responsibility. Trading economies still make it quite easy to not have to rely on yourself too much. A life without capitalism and authoritarians; one thats based on mutual aid, community, and gifting means that you either make it yourself, be a decent person so that people want to work with you or do without.

Some people will always want decisions to be made for them, it is quite a bit easier than the alternative.

The thing to remember is that we partake in anarchism all the time. Ever order a pizza with friends? Chances are you came to a consensus, no one dictated over anyone and chances are you didnt even 'vote'. We all know what its like being the one thats voted against.

Anarchism as a social/relationship approach works everyday, all the time but, the only way anarchism could ever work as a method of organizing our lives and communities is if we were broken down and organized much more locally and regionally. Anarchism on a national or global scale could never keep authoritarianism at bey.

That is of course speaking as if there is no mass social awakening, but I am no longer even attempting to grasp at straws for that. If we all eventually begin to reject authoritarianism where ever we see it, both in ourselves and elsewhere, than yes, anarchism will 'naturally' happen. You could argue that the rejection of authoritarianism is even our natural evolutionary path....Again, I am not grasping at straws for this....

The answer is to fight, and in fighting, build communities, create the change you want to see in your life. Dont wait around to change congress or for the revolution, make change now, where you can. Say things that you know you should and shouldnt, push the envelope. Build strange things, build ecosystems with permaculture, invite friends to stay and treat each other well, just as you would want to be treated, this is how it starts. Treat people (and other things) unusually well and you will be surprised how it comes back and just how affective it can be.

Anarchism is not about getting the overseers out of your private business or your private land or your private life.

Anarchism is about not being oppressive.

This is a great thread. I've just recently thought of myself as an anarchist. The stigma attached to that political stance in the mainstream media isn't too promising.

Unfortunately, it seems the notion of anarchy only is seriously considered by people who have a trusting world view. With all the scary and negative propaganda being perpetuated in the media, the majority will remain fearful and cynical, rejecting the idea of a possibly overly trusting form of society.

I must thank everyone who posted, gave me tons to think about.

Peace.

I think this world needs anarchy! It will wake everyone up and I feel people won't take their lives for granted!

It only takes one man to stand up to government in a particular way!





[edit on 3-2-2010 by Wolf ]