Do women feel men owe them...

If a man is highly intelligent, attractive and as such, has a reasonable range of selection, is that not based on appearance for the most part

I have self respect. I do not ask nor feel I have the right to ask a woman to behave or act by any way than that which she does in the first place. I mean, does not one choose to date another based on features that drew them to in the first place. So how, if after a while of dating, can it become a matter of expectations, besides support of one another with money and team effort by commonization of goals.

I am tired of women that I meet, (I have been pulled anf grabbed at in bars ) expecting me to be all about sex and not have to offer me ANY consideration as to their attitude or emotions. Do not get me wrong, I think beautiful women are amazing, and do find myself draw to them by dress, sexuality and such, but to EXPECT queen status because of a tight outfit or large breasts an insult. If I say as much, I have been asked if I was gay or even yelled at, (a woman in front of a coffeeshop was smoking and yelled: Am I not good enough to f88k!!!!) I could not believe it.

I am a straight guy, I have so much to offer and attractive enough that if I was like some guys are could take home many women if I wanted to, but it is a scary notion that despite my efforts, am beginning to fear that a lot of women maybe really think men do not feel, that we cannot exhibit the self control as to walk a path led by logical and rational sense rather than desire,
(If men think with their pants and not their mind, they deserve anything they get as to not have looked at anything but her flesh) and to me it is frustrating.

I resent girls sitting somewhere and then hearing to the effect that something is wrong with me for not being all over them. Do women not constantly complain about being sex objects, and not considered on other levels, so why are they so adverse to a guy who is really good looking, smart AND actually thinks with his heart. Women it seems are just as shallow as they claim of men. I have so much to offer the right woman but I deserve the respect of a person first, as a man second. Pity that so many people are so confused as men who cannot see the slavery to obsessive behaviour and true freedom if led by hormones and women who dont know how to offer more than their bodies but as not as aggressive as to pick up or ask guys out offer not much to go on if all we can do is see you and be expected to be the ones asking them out. If it is up to us and we cannot know anything about a woman except that she is cute, how do I know what I am looking for, especially if most girls think I am cute. Just wanna know, cause I seek to know love as truth not expectations and lust without meaning.

Lucifer, where do you go to meet women?

You are clearly not meeting the sort of people you want to. You need to re-think your social habits and get to know some of these ladies first before forming a relationship.

There are plenty of females out there looking for someone just like you. All you have to do is to find them.

Remember - Rome wasn't built in a day!

I dont normally read anything but the first page of this thread on relationships but today for some reason I went to the end of this relationship section and started going back up foreward unto today. I found some intresting posts.

This one caught my eye as I have had the same or similar experiences.

What you learn is that many women can be as ignorant and stereotyping as are many men. You just have to learn the slant in which they stereotype.

You also have to learn one other important fact or factor and that is that women are as big a group of " Hunter Gatherers " as are men. Probably more so ...it is just that the hunting and gathering is done in a different manner than do most men.
This does not mean that they are not hunting and gathering because they dont perform in this ballet roles in the same manner as do men. Make no mistake..women do hunt and gather. Women are quite adept at fishing or trolling a lure to get a bite out of a man. Its just that most men dont think of it this way.
For those of you men out here who fish...fishing with artificial baits can be very effecient. The key operative word here is artificial baits.
And you men need to know better.

I recommend very highly that you men ..young to olde purchase some of the womens category of magazines so popular at the check out sands of many drug stores or department stores and read them ..the articles on relationships how to accomplish them, how to manipulate them ..then contrast the advertising with the articles as products used in acquiring these goals. Notice how often sex/sexuality is used on the covers to make a woman more valuable and marketable ..in the marketplace..against the competition. When you begin to understand the psychology of this marketing strategy ..the overall psychology and you realize how many women buy into this or some variety of this religion ..you now know why so many act the way Lucifer is describing when he goes out.
I also recommend that many of you go into a used book store..or even the local Barnes and Noble and look at the covers of the Romance Novel category of books. Read some of them if you like. Danielle Steel is the author who is textbook in thier presentation though there are others. YOu will find if you can weed through much of this stuff that there is a basic formula operating here in the presentation of these plots which makes these books so popular. Millions and millions of women read this stuff...daily. Dont think it does not affect them in a subtle but controlling way. One look at many of the covers on these books tells alot if you can think outside of the sports illustrated swimsuit mentality.

Many men are no different. This falls under the category of Animalistic type behavior spurred on by alcohol/gland stimulus. It is also known as the lowest common denominator or LCD.
What Lucifer is asking is are they all so stamped out ....like a xerox machine...punch in 50 and you get 50 copies of the same animal. Little real thinking going on. Male and female... mostly just reacting to a stimulus which is not thiers.
Obviously Lucifer can think outside of the box of what constitutes excellence in the hunting gathering scene. Lucifers concerns are well founded. I have found a very similar pattern of operation.

If you are not jumping to thier clues and cues there is something wrong with you ..especially if you are not responding correctly to thier obvious sex appeal...You must be gay.
If you do jump you must play the game in the manner in which they dictate or there is something wrong with you again. You must pick up on thier clues and cues after all they have invested so much of thier time and moneys to get to this time and place tonight. How could you not understand that they are sitting on the only one in town???

This phenomonon is called the Queen Bee complex. They are the Queen Bees and you are the subject bee...or the prey. How dare you think outside of the clues and cues that the Queen Bees allow you.

Lucifers problem is that he is thinking outside the box or what passes for the "Game " today. Lucifer is looking for something outside of this "Game."

This is not allowed. How dare you think and not respond to the standard stimulus.
How dare you think about anything that is not on the treadmill.

While Lucifer recognized the package and the manner in which it is presented he wants something more than just outward appearences. This is not allowed.

I salute Lucifer and others who are capable of asking themselves what is wrong with this game.
I have been out there and played it..and its alright and it will occupy for awhile but one tires of it after awhile and wonders if there are any who are not xeroxed from the same base copy.

I have had many of these types of women over and while they are fun it never lasts for long. The minute you expect something from them outside of thier social beliefs..they become different people. Its like outside of their consumption rates they have little to offer. Many of them are high speed low drag and they often want you to substitute your thinking and values for their thinking and consumption rates. Not a good trade. THe other word for this is "High Maintenance." When the fun is gone ..they are gone too. No attention span.

I am not just picking on the women in this ..for many men today have the same fingerprint. High Maintenance. High speed low drag. They are fun and pretty for the women to drag around like a handbag to compliment their ensemble. Outside of the "Game" neither to these men think far.

What Lucifer is looking for is a woman who has signs and beliefs of a real soul in conduct..not just consumption levels....including consuming men. Not just a woman of the flesh but a real useful complimentary soul. A difficult task to accomplish today in this high speed low drag world.
You need to develope a good "high speed low drag" filter to filter out all the wildlife in its natural habitat.
This is a very difficult task for many men raised on the sports illustrated swimsuit mentality. They dont think about the real nature of a thing as Lucifer is doing. They just respond to a stimulus..to carry out the play on a program on clues and cues.
What a dumb bunch of men.

Thanks,
Orangetom

I don't know.... for Me, if a woman feels I owe her something, I expect them to collect on their debt at my door! Instead of complaining about it over the internet!